Why do you feel it is so hard to be good?

[Grailhunter]

I'm not attacking people for believing that salvation is by faith, not by works. I'm 'attacking' those who think the faith that is alone saves.

If your faith is alone, you are an unconverted unbeliever:

"let us love not in word and speech, but in action and truth. And by this we will know that we belong to the truth" 1 John 3:18-19
​

The Bible warns us about this so we can know if we are really saved or not and are prepared to meet Jesus when he comes back. I've noticed this message comes across as an attack to unbelievers, not believers.

Ok Ferris,
Think about this.
If you are suggesting that you can go from saved to unsaved....you are going to be struggling with a lot of scriptures.
If you are suggesting that you are saved by good deeds....you are going to be struggling with a lot of scriptures.
You may go to Hell for not doing Good Deeds, but they are not what saves you or gets you to Heaven.
That may sound like a play on words but it is not. It is more in line with the The Parable of the Talents ....if you are capable....physically and financially....you should help people. Not everyone is capable, and they can go to Heaven.

The word of the day is....intent. Christ knows. Christ knows if you are trying not to sin. Christ knows when you repent if you are sincere.

We do not have a meter for faith or belief and we do not need one. Really we do not. The big difference between the Mosaic Law and Christ's teachings...the Word of God that carries the Authority of the ultimate law, is that everything is a matter of intent, belief, and faith. You and I do not have a meter test, it is not our business, it is between them and Christ. There is nowhere for them to hide. They might be able to kid themselves into thinking that Christianity is a club, you sign up and you are covered. They can sin all they want and still go to heaven....They can think Christ is a fool....rubber stamped salvation.... did I just start a slogan?

People do not lose their saved status, they ruin their salvation. They were suppose to be working out their salvations with fear and trembling...but instead took faith and Grace and drug it through the mud. Their deeds were sins and they will answer for them as they stand before Christ on Judgment Day. They maybe shocked that Christ was not fool. They maybe shocked that Heaven does not have evildoers. They maybe shocked that Hell is the destination for evildoers.

The audience that the Apostles were speaking to...writing to...were / are Christians and they continually told them to be good and do good and warned about sinning....warnings! warnings! warnings! Why are they warning Christians about sinning? Because if they keep sinning they will go to Hell.

So they do not lose their saved status and if they sin they can go to Hell. Nowhere.....absolutely nowhere does it say Christians cannot go to Hell....That is why the Apostles are continually warning Christians about not sinning. Please understand this. It will help you.

No scriptures says that Christians cannot go to hell.
No scriptures say that Heaven will be full of evil.

The confusion is with the slogan "saved" It is simple idea for a simple culture....but it is not a ticket to Heaven.
Back then if you believed in Christ it meant more than believing the sun is bright.
If you were a follower of Christ, you did what Christ said and you did what the Apostles said, no back talk, no twisting of their words. If you did not you were not a follower of Christ....Why do you call me Lord, Lord and not do what I say? Not everyone that calls Him Lord, Lord is going to Heaven.

When they go into the Bible and pick out scriptures to support their beliefs, that they can sin and sin some more and go to Heaven, they are deceiving themselves. When they voice that belief, they are no longer followers of Christ, they have proclaimed their own Gospel and the Bible says they will be accursed.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I thought sanctification was imparted righteousness. I hate to make the distinction too often because people tend to think you can have one without the other, which is not true.

Barn, this may be new to you. Sanctification happens at the same time as justification when Jesus takes away our old carnal sin nature, and sets us apart for good works (sanctification). THEN comes the process of becoming like Christ. First we are made sinless from sins of lawlessness 1 John 3:4-5, but then we start maturing in the fruit of the Spirit to become perfect as Jesus told us to be. The steps to that perfection is 2 Peter 1:5-7, but look at verses 2-4 and you see by His divine power (grace) He makes us partake of the diving nature of God. That is glorification. John 17, Romans 8:29-30 (note sanctification is not mentioned, but justification is, because they are at the same time. You can't be sanctified, unless you are justified.) Abraham believed God and it was imparted to him as righteousness, but that is way before Jesus died for us to make us like Himself. Think of it this way. The Son of God became the Son of Man, so that sons of man may become sons of God. 1 John 1:9 when Jesus cleanses us from all unrighteousness He makes us sinless, and even takes away the carnal nature that produced the sin, so it is gone and so is sinning. We are now children of God 1 John 3:1-3.

Many erroneously believe that glorification is only at the resurrection, but that has to do with our body, not the nature is what is born again of the Spirit on the inside of us, not this outer shell that will day by day become older and weaker, but is NOT where sin dwells. (Another false doctrine). They also spread the garbage that we will always sin while in these bodies. That is the complete opposite of what Jesus taught, but right in line with what demons want us to believe - defeatism.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Ok Ferris,
Think about this.
If you are suggesting that you can go from saved to unsaved....you are going to be struggling with a lot of scriptures.
If you are suggesting that you are saved by good deeds....you are going to be struggling with a lot of scriptures.
You may go to Hell for not doing Good Deeds, but they are not what saves you or gets you to Heaven.
That may sound like a play on words but it is not. It is more in line with the The Parable of the Talents ....if you are capable....physically and financially....you should help people. Not everyone is capable, and they can go to Heaven.

The word of the day is....intent. Christ knows. Christ knows if you are trying not to sin. Christ knows when you repent if you are sincere.

We do not have a meter for faith or belief and we do not need one. Really we do not. The big difference between the Mosaic Law and Christ's teachings...the Word of God that carries the Authority of the ultimate law, is that everything is a matter of intent, belief, and faith. You and I do not have a meter test, it is not our business, it is between them and Christ. There is nowhere for them to hide. They might be able to kid themselves into thinking that Christianity is a club, you sign up and you are covered. They can sin all they want and still go to heaven....They can think Christ is a fool....rubber stamped salvation.... did I just start a slogan?

People do not lose their saved status, they ruin their salvation. They were suppose to be working out their salvations with fear and trembling...but instead took faith and Grace and drug it through the mud. Their deeds were sins and they will answer for them as they stand before Christ on Judgment Day. They maybe shocked that Christ was not fool. They maybe shocked that Heaven does not have evildoers. They maybe shocked that Hell is the destination for evildoers.

The audience that the Apostles were speaking to...writing to...were / are Christians and they continually told them to be good and do good and warned about sinning....warnings! warnings! warnings! Why are they warning Christians about sinning? Because if they keep sinning they will go to Hell.

So they do not lose their saved status and if they sin they can go to Hell. Nowhere.....absolutely nowhere does it say Christians cannot go to Hell....That is why the Apostles are continually warning Christians about not sinning. Please understand this. It will help you.

No scriptures says that Christians cannot go to hell.
No scriptures say that Heaven will be full of evil.

The confusion is with the slogan "saved" It is simple idea for a simple culture....but it is not a ticket to Heaven.
Back then if you believed in Christ it meant more than believing the sun is bright.
If you were a follower of Christ, you did what Christ said and you did what the Apostles said, no back talk, no twisting of their words. If you did not you were not a follower of Christ....Why do you call me Lord, Lord and not do what I say? Not everyone that calls Him Lord, Lord is going to Heaven.

When they go into the Bible and pick out scriptures to support their beliefs, that they can sin and sin some more and go to Heaven, they are deceiving themselves. When they voice that belief, they are no longer followers of Christ, they have proclaimed their own Gospel and the Bible says they will be accursed.

Don't you think 1 John 1:7 says it all?

We walk in the Spirit/Light as Jesus is in the Light.
We then have fellowship with one another. How? Matthew 6:14-15 We forgive our brethren who trespass against us, and then the last part of the verse becomes effective, and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. (sins not unto death - trespasses according to the Lord's Prayer)

1 John 3:4 sin is lawlessness (1 John 5:16-17, sins unto death -the context of this chapter)
1 John 3:5 Jesus was manifest to take away those sins, and in Him there is no sin. 1 John 1:9

Being sinless is so easy. Once you have the baptism of fire, the Holy Spirit, the born again nature that partakes of the divine nature does not sin. Thus zero sins unto death.

Then the fruit of love starts to grow and we forgive each other and keep reconciliation and unity within the body, and Jesus cleanses us from the sins not unto death. Thus zero sins not unto death.

Zero plus zero is sinlessness.
Perfection is a process and could take a lifetime. It is the maturing of the fruit of the Spirit, and when all the fruit are mature, your nature is fully glorified and you are perfect, just like Jesus asked us to be. Next our body must die and be resurrected to match our perfect nature - our divine soul and spirit.

 

[Grailhunter]

Don't you think 1 John 1:7 says it all?

We walk in the Spirit/Light as Jesus is in the Light.
We then have fellowship with one another. How? Matthew 6:14-15 We forgive our brethren who trespass against us, and then the last part of the verse becomes effective, and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. (sins not unto death - trespasses according to the Lord's Prayer)

1 John 3:4 sin is lawlessness (1 John 5:16-17, sins unto death -the context of this chapter)
1 John 3:5 Jesus was manifest to take away those sins, and in Him there is no sin. 1 John 1:9

Being sinless is so easy. Once you have the baptism of fire, the Holy Spirit, the born again nature that partakes of the divine nature does not sin. Thus zero sins unto death.

Then the fruit of love starts to grow and we forgive each other and keep reconciliation and unity within the body, and Jesus cleanses us from the sins not unto death. Thus zero sins not unto death.

Zero plus zero is sinlessness.
Perfection is a process and could take a lifetime. It is the maturing of the fruit of the Spirit, and when all the fruit are mature, you nature is fully glorified and you are perfect, just like Jesus asked us to be. Next our body must die and be resurrected to match our perfect nature - our divine soul and spirit.

Well spoken.

 

[Tong2020]

Yes, look how Peter describes works being done in order to earn your way into heaven...

"...strive to make your calling and election sure." 2 Peter 1:10

Hmm does that sound works being done in order to earn your way into heaven?

Tong
R4377

 

[Tong2020]

I'm not attacking people for believing that salvation is by faith, not by works. I'm 'attacking' those who think the faith that is alone saves.

If your faith is alone, you are an unconverted unbeliever:

"let us love not in word and speech, but in action and truth. And by this we will know that we belong to the truth" 1 John 3:18-19
​

The Bible warns us about this so we can know if we are really saved or not and are prepared to meet Jesus when he comes back. I've noticed this message comes across as an attack to unbelievers, not believers.

Some do make the mistake of taking the matter of fruitfulness as to be an absolute indicator of the salvation of one.

Tong
R4378

 

[Tong2020]

Barn, this may be new to you. Sanctification happens at the same time as justification when Jesus takes away our old carnal sin nature, and sets us apart for good works (sanctification). THEN comes the process of becoming like Christ. First we are made sinless from sins of lawlessness 1 John 3:4-5, but then we start maturing in the fruit of the Spirit to become perfect as Jesus told us to be. The steps to that perfection is 2 Peter 1:5-7, but look at verses 2-4 and you see by His divine power (grace) He makes us partake of the diving nature of God. That is glorification. John 17, Romans 8:29-30 (note sanctification is not mentioned, but justification is, because they are at the same time. You can't be sanctified, unless you are justified.) Abraham believed God and it was imparted to him as righteousness, but that is way before Jesus died for us to make us like Himself. Think of it this way. The Son of God became the Son of Man, so that sons of man may become sons of God. 1 John 1:9 when Jesus cleanses us from all unrighteousness He makes us sinless, and even takes away the carnal nature that produced the sin, so it is gone and so is sinning. We are now children of God 1 John 3:1-3.

Many erroneously believe that glorification is only at the resurrection, but that has to do with our body, not the nature is what is born again of the Spirit on the inside of us, not this outer shell that will day by day become older and weaker, but is NOT where sin dwells. (Another false doctrine). They also spread the garbage that we will always sin while in these bodies. That is the complete opposite of what Jesus taught, but right in line with what demons want us to believe - defeatism.

Salvation was accomplished and finished some 2000+ years ago, in Christ Jesus.

Tong
R4379

 

[Gospel Believer]

"By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God..." 1 John 3:10
​

You are literally saying John is not telling the truth.

You “ Practice Righteousness” when you Rest in Paul’s Gospel , given to him personally by Jesus....a “ child of Satan is not a Gospel Believer....You “can’t practice Righteousness” and be a Gospel Rejector...

 

[Gospel Believer]

If a man was really wise and was clinging to grace he'd have a life of ever-increasing holiness to show for it.

It “ should happen”..... 99% of the time it WILL happen.....it just doesn’t HAVE to happen....a man’s behavior should improve if you let the Holy Spirit “hang around” long enough ....any “ Holiness” attributed to a man is a Joke.....unless , just like “ Righteousness “ , it is an IMPUTED Holiness.....

 

[Gospel Believer]

You may believe the lie that "imputed" righteousness does not make us act righteous though. "Indwelling" is Jesus IN me, making me righteous through the acts He shows me to do.

Sometimes it might take a while.....a looooong while sometimes.....

 

[Gospel Believer]

Aren't you clever?

Not “ clever”......I am just a “good student of the Word” that does not , due to ignorance , have to “stand ashamed” when I get stuff wrong all of the time as the Bible says.....it’s that “ rightly Dividing” thingy.....

 

[Gospel Believer]

. Hyper Grace theology says grace makes it so you can live in sin and it doesn't matter anymore.


You just might need some of this “ Hyper Grace” to cover the Lie you just posted.... you may not “ live in Sin” to the extent that Hitler did, but you STILL have Sins Of Omission ( apologies to you if you took in and fed a bunch of poor, hungry people this week) and you commit willful sins every day and you don’t repent of all of them ( apologies again if you have a Super Memory ) and you have “ secret thoughts that would shame Hell”......You are a MUCH bigger Sinner than you realize.....better cling to Grace as I do......Ironically,when you DO that and and that ALONE, as I have done .....I “ live in Sin” less than YOU do......without trying NEAR as hard as you do......Haven't I told you before? TRUE Christianity is wild ! I hope you live long enough to give it a whirl.....( get off that bottle!)

 

[Gospel Believer]

Barn, this may be new to you. Sanctification happens at the same time as justification when Jesus takes away our old carnal sin nature, and sets us apart for good works (sanctification). THEN comes the process of becoming like Christ. First we are made sinless from sins of lawlessness 1 John 3:4-5, but then we start maturing in the fruit of the Spirit to become perfect as Jesus told us to be. The steps to that perfection is 2 Peter 1:5-7, but look at verses 2-4 and you see by His divine power (grace) He makes us partake of the diving nature of God. That is glorification. John 17, Romans 8:29-30 (note sanctification is not mentioned, but justification is, because they are at the same time. You can't be sanctified, unless you are justified.) Abraham believed God and it was imparted to him as righteousness, but that is way before Jesus died for us to make us like Himself. Think of it this way. The Son of God became the Son of Man, so that sons of man may become sons of God. 1 John 1:9 when Jesus cleanses us from all unrighteousness He makes us sinless, and even takes away the carnal nature that produced the sin, so it is gone and so is sinning. We are now children of God 1 John 3:1-3.

Many erroneously believe that glorification is only at the resurrection, but that has to do with our body, not the nature is what is born again of the Spirit on the inside of us, not this outer shell that will day by day become older and weaker, but is NOT where sin dwells. (Another false doctrine). They also spread the garbage that we will always sin while in these bodies. That is the complete opposite of what Jesus taught, but right in line with what demons want us to believe - defeatism.

I’ve said it before and I will say it again......let me talk with your Spouse or best friend fortwo minutes—— we’ll SEE just how “Sinless” you are.....

 

[Gospel Believer]

If you can't show your faith by what you do you do not have the faith that justifies all by itself apart from works. John says to not let anyone deceive you about this!


If the Bible say that—and of course it does—it HAS to be TRUE......A man can “show and prove his Faith” by doing this “work” even if he does nothing else.....he can do the “ work” of moving his lips to say “Jesus is Lord”.......”If you will confess WITH YOUR MOUTH that ‘ Jesus Is LORD” and Believe in your Heart that God raised Him from the Dead,You will be Saved” ....

Granted, my example is a very small “work” , BUT......it IS a Work......Moving my lips is something that I * DO*.......”With the Heart a man Believes and with his MOUTH , Confession is made unto Eternal Life” .....it all kinda ties together, doesn’t it?

 

[post]

"...make every effort to add to your faith virtue; and to virtue, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love." 2 Peter 1:5-7

virtue is not a physical property
knowledge is not a physical property
self-control is not a physical property
perseverance is not a physical property
godliness is not a physical property
brotherly kindness is not a physical property
love is not a physical property

these things are expressed in word and deed, but they do not reside in physical actions.

Let us make every effort to add to our faith the action of love to make our calling and election sure:

"...strive to make your calling and election sure. For if you practice these things you will never stumble, and you will receive a lavish reception into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." 2 Peter 1:10-11

'make sure' here is a nautical term. he's saying essentially tie down your faith with these things so that when storms come and you are rocked back and forth, you will not stumble & falter, and your faith will not go overboard. if i diligently put into regular practice these spiritual things in my physical life, then when someone like you comes along and says:

you are an unconverted unbeliever

my faith will remain steadfast.

 

[Grailhunter]

virtue is not a physical property
knowledge is not a physical property
self-control is not a physical property
perseverance is not a physical property
godliness is not a physical property
brotherly kindness is not a physical property
love is not a physical property

these things are expressed in word and deed, but they do not reside in physical actions.



'make sure' here is a nautical term. he's saying essentially tie down your faith with these things so that when storms come and you are rocked back and forth, you will not stumble & falter, and your faith will not go overboard. if i diligently put into regular practice these spiritual things in my physical life, then when someone like you comes along and says:



my faith will remain steadfast.

You are still pandering a gospel of confusion here, and it has nothing to do with "Paul's gospel" He is turning over in his grave.

 

[BarneyFife]

Not “ clever”......I am just a “good student of the Word” that does not , due to ignorance , have to “stand ashamed” when I get stuff wrong all of the time as the Bible says.....it’s that “ rightly Dividing” thingy.....

Too bad for the rest of us.

 

[Tong2020]

Well if you want me to do a word search, I've narrowed it down to two verses. And like I said, they mean exactly the opposite of what you are saying.



What difference does that make? He confessed what he did and while we may have different circumstances and may be in a different boat, we are in the same storm.

... And Thomas a doubter, and Peter a denier, and Noah a drunkard, and Jacob a deceiver, and Rehab a harlot, and Gideon a coward, and Joseph a trickster.

Maybe these weren't lives of sin, but they were sins. When you get to heaven are you going to scold them? God forgave them... Some of those things were a bit more serious than smoking a cigarette.

Furthermore, technically speaking, even Jesus broke the law concerning the Sabbath. He didn't because he was the Lord of the Sabbath, and had a deeper understanding, but yeah... Technically he did.

Heck... Peter stayed in trouble all the time! Jesus called him Satan and said he still needed to be converted.

The Bible may not detail the "life of sin" of Jesus and the apostles because it wasn't the point. But there is enough in the Bible to let us know that they were men of like passions. And that applies to Jesus as well.

In the last part of your post, are you suggesting that Jesus was also a sinner?

Tong
R4385

 

[Tong2020]

well as you can see it's easier to get angry to the person who punch you in the face than to forgive him what's more you need not only to forgive him but to do good for him

and God knows it's hard to do that
that's probably why he said those things
Luke 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
Luke 6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
Luke 6:34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
Luke 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

and yes it's obviously easy to do evil or to sin than to do good or not to sin this is the proof of when doing sin is easy while doing the will of God is hard
Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

<<<and yes it's obviously easy to do evil or to sin than to do good or not to sin>>>

I’d say, for the true Christian, it should be easier to do good than to do evil.

Tong
R4386

 

[Tong2020]

but right don't try to be good since no one is good but God so if you try to be good aren't you just opposing God what you have to do is not to do good but to do the will of God

<<<what you have to do is not to do good but to do the will of God>>>

Yes, to do the will of God as Jesus did. That is the life of the true Christian, at least that is my conviction.

Tong
R4387