Why do you think faith alone saves us?

[forgivenWretch]

God's grace saves us, through our faith, and works come after we've commited.

 

[Butch5]

Well, if that's what you mean, I don't agree with the OP, if that's how you interpret it. Ephesians 2 says, 'not of works, lest any man should boast'. James gives the qualification that 'faith without works is dead', but it's not inconsistent with what Paul teaches about saving faith.

Well, I just showed you that Paul is speaking of the works of the Mosaic Law. After he says not of works, he explains how Christ broke down the middle wall of partition and abolished the law of commandments contained in ordinances. That is the context of the passage. Paul also differentiates between two types of works, one he says does not save (Works of the Law), the other he says believers were created for (Good works).The passages of Scripture that I quoted clearly show the necessity of good works.

Regarding James, yes he does say faith without works is dead, and you are correct that it is not inconsistent with Paul, however, it seems many Christians misunderstand James in order to avoid contradiction with the Reformed interpretation of Ephesians 2:8. You see, the only statement in the Bible about "Faith alone" comes from James and he says a man is "Not" justified by faith alone. James says faith without works is dead. Many Christians understand this to mean true faith will produce works, however, that is not at all what James said. If look closely, James said,

James 2:21-24 ( KJV )
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

The Greek word translated "Perfect" means mature or complete. James is saying that faith is made complete by works. If as James says works are necessary to complete faith and faith without works is dead, how can works be the product of faith. Works cannot be the product of faith when they are necessary for the completion of faith.

So you see the opinion many Christians hold about James' statements are actually illogical and contradictory. They are held however, to avoid contradiction with an improper interpretation of Paul's words in Ephesians 2:8

If the baptismal rights come from scripture and a person really believes scripture is God Breathed .Then the baptimal rights are Not the merits of humans.


if a pastor preaches a sermon of law that shows our sins and the Gospel that shows our savior Jesus and a person comes to faith through that sermon .. its not because of the merits of the human pastor who used his voice , its Gods messaage Gods merits that brought the person to faith .Romans 16:17

A pastor uses his voice and hands to perform a baptism but its not his merits that cause a christian baptism to have taken place either .

its Christs


Matthew 28:18-20
18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Agreed, Paul makes it clear in Titus 3:5 that baptism is not a workd of righteousness.


Titus 3:4-5 ( KJV )
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Why is it faith is all we need to be saved ---why was it so simple for the thief to be taken to Paradise by simply believing?

Because that is how wonderful our Father is.
Because that is how gracious He is.
Because that is how much He relishes our tiniest teeniest opening of recognition in our hearts.
Because that is how His hunger for us manifests.
Because that is how important acknowledgment is to Him.
Because nothing else matters as much to Him.
Because that is the Nature of Love.

And that's just for starters and, see, I didn't use any scripture.
This came from Him touching my heart and having a direct experience as to why faith in Him is so precious and important to Him.
There is a delicate place in the heart that He wants and waits for...precious beyond anything in the Universe.

:) Miss Hepburn

 

[farouk]

Well, I just showed you that Paul is speaking of the works of the Mosaic Law. After he says not of works, he explains how Christ broke down the middle wall of partition and abolished the law of commandments contained in ordinances. That is the context of the passage. Paul also differentiates between two types of works, one he says does not save (Works of the Law), the other he says believers were created for (Good works).The passages of Scripture that I quoted clearly show the necessity of good works.

Regarding James, yes he does say faith without works is dead, and you are correct that it is not inconsistent with Paul, however, it seems many Christians misunderstand James in order to avoid contradiction with the Reformed interpretation of Ephesians 2:8. You see, the only statement in the Bible about "Faith alone" comes from James and he says a man is "Not" justified by faith alone. James says faith without works is dead. Many Christians understand this to mean true faith will produce works, however, that is not at all what James said. If look closely, James said,

James 2:21-24 ( KJV )
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

The Greek word translated "Perfect" means mature or complete. James is saying that faith is made complete by works. If as James says works are necessary to complete faith and faith without works is dead, how can works be the product of faith. Works cannot be the product of faith when they are necessary for the completion of faith.

So you see the opinion many Christians hold about James' statements are actually illogical and contradictory. They are held however, to avoid contradiction with an improper interpretation of Paul's words in Ephesians 2:8




Agreed, Paul makes it clear in Titus 3:5 that baptism is not a workd of righteousness.


Titus 3:4-5 ( KJV )
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Butch5:

Since I don't subscribe to the Reformed label, then it's not likely to worry me that I'm not being supposedly Reformed enough.

Paul himself in Ephesians 2.10 - yes, the very next verse - says that the believer is 'created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.'

But his statement doesn't negate the previous statement: 'not of works', because the idea that faith is somehow meritorious is foreign to the Scriptures. Faith is dead without works, as James says, but faith is part of the fruit of the Spirit, as Paul says to the Galatians.

 

[Butch5]

Butch5:

Since I don't subscribe to the Reformed label, then it's not likely to worry me that I'm not being supposedly Reformed enough.

Paul himself in Ephesians 2.10 - yes, the very next verse - says that the believer is 'created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.'

But his statement doesn't negate the previous statement: 'not of works', because the idea that faith is somehow meritorious is foreign to the Scriptures. Faith is dead without works, as James says, but faith is part of the fruit of the Spirit, as Paul says to the Galatians.

Well. if you can live with the contradiction that is created between your interpretation and the Scripture, enjoy. Remember Paul also said,


Romans 2:5-10 ( KJV )
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: