Why Does Christ Want Some Not To Be Saved ?

[quietthinker]

oh

You have to be careful with how you wear what you find though.
Sometimes they can puff you up and make you think your prettier or richer than the next guy.
Sometimes all that sparkly stuff can, if your not humble get you into trouble.
1Ti 2:9
In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
1Ti 2:10
But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

The next verses though, I hear a lot of people squabble over.
But the more I look at pearls the clearer things become.
1Ti 2:11
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Basically to me that says:
Shut up and listen, God is talking.
or maybe quoted better here:
1Jo 2:27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
and also:
Luk 12:34
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

The woman being the teacher is the church trying to push it's own doctrines.

So if I find a real pretty pearl and I flaunt it..
I build a whole doctrine on that pearl that doesn't line up with the truth.
I start looking like that woman all arrayed in costly jewels having a gold cup of abominations in my hand.

Humbleness.. that's a mighty mountain to climb.
But then I remember what Jesus told me:
Mat 21:21
Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

I feel extremely rich today
I just want to share everything with everybody.
Cause it's no fun going pearl digging alone.

Humbleness..
Mic 6:8
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

Amen

Oh Ziggy, you do find pearls! I must say, I have a passion for pearls. The gates into the New Jerusalem I read are made of a single pearl. I think that might be the same gate whereby one enters the sheepfold. The sheepfolds I'm familiar with have lots of poo which needs mucking out. I know a good mucker outerer. We can look for pearls together; what do you think?

 

[farouk]

Luk 10:21
In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
whats wrong with being wise and prudent?
They don't desire what??
1Pe 2:2
As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
Because the wise and prudent had a habit of something they already been doing which is:
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
and so:
Luk 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

maybe?
Hugs

@Ziggy A new believer wanting the sincere milk of the Word is like a newborn child wanting to feed... (Hence Peter's comparison there, in the passage you quoted...)

 

[dev553344]

Luk 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

That passage is not indicating "not saved" it's correctly stated to "not understand" parables. I think it's so that he could get stuff by the people that were persecuting the followers of Jesus. So that it was a hidden message.

 

[Ziggy]

@Ziggy A new believer wanting the sincere milk of the Word is like a newborn child wanting to feed... (Hence Peter's comparison there, in the passage you quoted...)

In reference as to why Jesus only spoke in Parables.
Luk 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
And the question was Why does Christ not want all to be saved.
In my opinon.
So the quote about the babes desiring the sincere milk of the word, was because the ones not seeing and hearing
were unwilling to become as little children.
Mat 18:3
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The mysteries are given unto those who are willing to listen and learn and grow.
But to those that are stubborn in their own ways, and think they already have all the answers.
The Pharisees and Saducees and Religious Leaders, and Universities...etc
Heb 5:12
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat

The parables were meant for the "educated" to have to ask.
Rabbi, what are you talking about??
That's the first step. Asking.
If he spoke to them about things which they already thought they knew, they would not have to ask for the meaning of what he said.

Like the rich man asking the beggar for business advice.
Their pride was in the way. So Jesus made it so they would have to ask.

And so the question Why does Christ not want all to be saved?
In fact is answered here:
2Pe 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

And that's why I think Jesus spoke to them in parables.
Hugs

 

[farouk]

In reference as to why Jesus only spoke in Parables.
Luk 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
And the question was Why does Christ not want all to be saved.
In my opinon.
So the quote about the babes desiring the sincere milk of the word, was because the ones not seeing and hearing
were unwilling to become as little children.
Mat 18:3
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The mysteries are given unto those who are willing to listen and learn and grow.
But to those that are stubborn in their own ways, and think they already have all the answers.
The Pharisees and Saducees and Religious Leaders, and Universities...etc
Heb 5:12
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat

The parables were meant for the "educated" to have to ask.
Rabbi, what are you talking about??
That's the first step. Asking.
If he spoke to them about things which they already thought they knew, they would not have to ask for the meaning of what he said.

Like the rich man asking the beggar for business advice.
Their pride was in the way. So Jesus made it so they would have to ask.

And so the question Why does Christ not want all to be saved?
In fact is answered here:
2Pe 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

And that's why I think Jesus spoke to them in parables.
Hugs

@Ziggy....interesting...the hearts of some of those religious people to whom the Lord Jesus spoke were evidently not right for them to be able to receive the truth...

 

[Taken]

Why Does Christ Want Some Not To Be Saved ?
OP ^

God desires for all to be Saved-
On His Terms-

Sound like a hummm?

God loves all of His Creations.
God desires His Creations learn About Him, learn what He has to Offer mankind.

God desires mankind's Love...

God could Force and Make every person love Him.

But Forced Love is not genuine Love.

It's a call every Individual must decide for himself. Freewill.

But not without consideration, mankind can not See or Hear God...

However, a Living soul, (Gods OWN Breath of Life) is IN every single living man.
It's a smidgen (so to speak) of God in us...and Through His Word, and our soul, our ears can receive His Word, IF we are willing To Desire to Hear...He gifts us with Faith.

We having- Gds Breath (Gods Life in us),
Hearing Gods Word ( In us ), Receiving Measures of Faith from God (in us) For Hearing His Word...

ARE 3 steps Ahead (if we recognize that Advantage), than the guy who is simply listening from a critics stand point.

Luke 8:10

Is the difference between a curious Skeptic poised to hear and MindFully /Logically analyzing the words as spoken...

And one desiring to know God, and Trusting every word is True...without YET, "understanding".
• Understanding Always Comes AFTER knowledge is gathered.

With Scripture, Word of God, Knowledge,
(Men Try to interpret and preach "understanding"...and we get Umpteen thousand of opinions)...then mindfully, logically try to choose a point of view.

However Scripture itself teaches:
• The Carnal/ Logical thinking Mind is Against God.
• it is man's choice TO "WANT" to believe or "Not".
• And that "Want", comes from the hearts thoughts, not the Mind.
• a man's Heartful want, Will be given.
God IS Just to All.
•Gods Understanding- (of His Word), is not the Same as a man's Logical understanding;
•Gods Understanding- (of His Word), is Given To, can be asked for By, any man WHO has become CONVERTED...IN Christ.
•That is the Awesome Gift -
Offered the Disciples-
Men committed to God & Christ
- Jews following OT, don't have it
- Unsaved men don't have it
- Fallen Angel's don't have it

Unbelievers "interested/ curious"... Begging with "wanting" the understanding...Before commitment...
(Atheists, top that list)...is not the ORDER or WAY.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[FollowHim]

Luk 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Jesus states after the rich young ruler turns away from following Jesus, and Peter declares it is impossible to follow God, Jesus says with God everything is possible. The principle is man is truly lost, and it is almost impossible to get his attention and lead him into life. So God never wanted any to be lost, but the reality is only a few will make it through in the end.

It is this dilemma that is a key issue in the Kingdom and in growth.
These forums are a testimony to the key issues of the gospel and life as easily missed.

You have the legalists who desire everyone obeys there version of the law, and the easy believers who feel that it is all done, we are part of the party so just have fun. Now both groups cannot both be right. The chances are both are wrong at quite a fundamental level. And I would lay this at the problem of self justification and the essence of what love is. Love is something fundamental from the heart, and lies at the heart of vulnerability, accepting hurt along with dependency. One could say love is masochistic ie to love you have to accept pain, but the pain is worth the sharing and receiving of love back.

Legalists want a defined safety of being acceptable by obeying the rules while the easy believists want acceptance with no conditions or behavioural restrictions. Both these miss the essential nature of love which is knowing an individual and their likes and dislikes, and understanding what will upset another and what will not. No loving relationship works without this sensitivity. Equally there are boundaries and points where discussion happens and repentance needs to occur to change behaviour so to show intent and true change of heart.

The difficulty comes when people have no loving relationship experience in their life, so to learn or even trust that another could truly love them is too hard to contemplate. One group of believers accused me of evil and deception even to raise such a reality and thought this was just socialist propoganda to take control of others. And it is true ideals can become a agenda to judge and kill the enemy while failing to live up to them oneself while creating the illusion they are being fulfilled which movements have used throughout the ages.

So Jesus knows the reality
"Many are called, few are chosen"

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Luk 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

this is not the meaning of this.

The nation of Israel had just committed the unpardonable sin by saying Jesus did the Messianic miracles by the power of Beelzebub.

Prior to that Jesus and the disciples (John the Baptist) preached to Israel (alone) repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand! For Jesus came to give the kingdom to Israel as promised and to redeem men from sin.

After the unpardonable sin was committed, the offer of the kingdom was pulled from that generation of Israel, and th physical kingdom was to be given to a future generation of Israel.

But in the meantime Jesus preached to the crowds now only in parables- to hide the truth from them as they had rejected HIm as Messiah!

So the parables are hiding th etruth but to the apostles it is explaining the "mystery form" of the kingdom which is the church!

This is a very condensed version of all that is involved but I hope it helps.

Gods desire is that all are saved, but He also knows that supermajority of mankind will reject the death and resurrection of Jesus for their sin and thus be saved.

 

[Ziggy]

"The nation of Israel had just committed the unpardonable sin by saying Jesus did the Messianic miracles by the power of Beelzebub."

1Jo 5:16
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
NLT: If you see a Christian brother or sister sinning in a way that does not lead to death, you should pray, and God will give that person life. But there is a sin that leads to death, and I am not saying you should pray for those who commit it.

I found something that made me very sad.

Rev 2:20 - 23

Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

I will kill her children with death.
1Jo 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

We are now living in the days of the culture of Hate.
Our society is dying due to hate.
Hating is suicide.
Suicide is the unpardonable sin.

I will kill her children with death.
Death is Hate
Hate is Suicide
They will actually be destroying themselves and God will allow it.
Unless they repent...

Why are so many people so hateful today?????

Ronald, I don't think it was because they slandered him so much as they hated him..

Just thinking..
Hugs

 

[quietthinker]

"The nation of Israel had just committed the unpardonable sin by saying Jesus did the Messianic miracles by the power of Beelzebub."

1Jo 5:16
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
NLT: If you see a Christian brother or sister sinning in a way that does not lead to death, you should pray, and God will give that person life. But there is a sin that leads to death, and I am not saying you should pray for those who commit it.

I found something that made me very sad.

Rev 2:20 - 23

Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

I will kill her children with death.
1Jo 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

We are now living in the days of the culture of Hate.
Our society is dying due to hate.
Hating is suicide.
Suicide is the unpardonable sin.

I will kill her children with death.
Death is Hate
Hate is Suicide
They will actually be destroying themselves and God will allow it.
Unless they repent...

Why are so many people so hateful today?????

Ronald, I don't think it was because they slandered him so much as they hated him..

Just thinking..
Hugs

They hated Jesus because they had rejected the clear promptings of the Holy Spirit that Jesus truly was the promised one......God's chosen method of speaking to the heart rejected there was no other way of reaching them.

We do well to learn from this......we do well to be aware of the prejudice that wants to hinder us from submitting to a drawing love.
This is unpardonable because we have shut the door to knowledge for Salvation and substituted our own imaginings.

 

[Ziggy]

They hated Jesus because they had rejected the clear promptings of the Holy Spirit that Jesus truly was the promised one......God's chosen method of speaking to the heart rejected there was no other way of reaching them.

We do well to learn from this......we do well to be aware of the prejudice that wants to hinder us from submitting to a drawing love.
This is unpardonable because we have shut the door to knowledge for Salvation and substituted our own imaginings.

Same story over and over.
It's Cain meets Abel in the field and slays him because of jealousy.
Jesus came declaring the Kingdom of God, and you aint in it unless you follow me.
They thought they was there first and the keys of the Kingdom belonged to them
It's the birthright between Esau and Jacob.
It's everywhere in scripture.
And anytime anyone of us feels that we are in a better position than the next guy,
your gonna get slapped down so hard... SLAP!
That's why it's important to learn humblenessssssss...
Because if you don't, you get stuck with that thorn like Paul did.
Hugs

 

[brightfame52]

Luk 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Thats His Fathers Will not to save all !

 

[brightfame52]

mm

God wishes that all be saved.

Sure all His Elect, otherwise the statement is false

 

[brightfame52]

eno

You have seriously misunderstood this. Those condemned to spiritual blindness are those who FIRST CHOOSE to be wilfully blind.

Man is born spiritually blind

 

[justbyfaith]

mm



Sure all His Elect, otherwise the statement is false

If anyone receives Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour, they become one of God's elect...

True or false?

 

[justbyfaith]

If anyone receives Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour, they become one of God's elect...

True or false?

@brightfame52, you have no answer to this question?

 

[brightfame52]

@brightfame52, you have no answer to this question?

Im not here to play games.

 

[justbyfaith]

Im not here to play games.

Well, let me just say to you that Jesus is not going to reject someone over the presupposed notion that they are not one of His elect.

For He said,

Jhn 6:37, All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Therefore, the idea that if I am not one of the elect, Jesus will reject me if I come to Him (which is a major concept in Calvinism, which you appear to believe in) is not scriptural.

I am saying that if anyone comes to Him, they are one of His elect; and this idea that if I am not one of His elect I cannot be saved is therefore malarkey.

And if I can be saved as one of His "non-elect" (thus becoming His elect; for that I am now saved), it kind of puts this whole idea of God arbitrarily choosing us apart from our faith decision into the realm of idiocy.

 

[brightfame52]

Well, let me just say to you that Jesus is not going to reject someone over the presupposed notion that they are not one of His elect.

For He said,

Jhn 6:37, All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Therefore, the idea that if I am not one of the elect, Jesus will reject me if I come to Him (which is a major concept in Calvinism, which you appear to believe in) is not scriptural.

I am saying that if anyone comes to Him, they are one of His elect; and this idea that if I am not one of His elect I cannot be saved is therefore malarkey.

And if I can be saved as one of His "non-elect" (thus becoming His elect; for that I am now saved), it kind of puts this whole idea of God arbitrarily choosing us apart from our faith decision into the realm of idiocy.

You lost me !

 

[justbyfaith]

You lost me !

Are you a Calvinist?