Why faith alone? The answer...

[Debp]

@Reggie Belafonte See John chapter 3 where Jesus talks about being born of water and the Spirit. Most people think the water refers to when we are physically born into this world.

Of course the Spirit refers to the Holy Spirit who comes to indwell us as believers....then we are born again.

@Reggie Belafonte I think you are misunderstanding what @Sister-n-Christ is talking about. See my quote above.

Most people believe the water Jesus referred to is when a mother's water breaks before childbirth.

Being born of the Spirit (born again) is when we have believed on Christ as our Savior and the Holy Spirit comes to indwell us.

See what Jesus said below...

5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said, ‘You must be born again.’ John 3:5-7

 

[nedsk]

People go on debate and go through loops to prove or disprove faith alone for salvation, baptism being needed, or less commonly if turning from sin "in sincere repentance as possible" is needed.

Let me (hopefully) shut this down with one verse:

Genesis 15:6
"Then he believed in the LORD, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."

The Hebrew for "believed" is וְהֶאֱמִ֖ן(wəhe’ĕmin). This word only appears in this verse, and it has only one meaning in any context: Full faith and resolute conviction of something being true.

There's no room in this word for "If they truly believe they'll-" or "Faith and this are needed:-". If we're to have Scripture not contradict, we must accept this, and accept that in reality, these systems and doctrines traditions that deny this(most likely out of ignorance), are founded on false ideas.

And before you claim that "conviction" in that meaning must mean Judeo-Christian ideas of "Conviction that leads to repentance or works", this is merely a word. As religious as Israel was, words on their own don't automatically have religious context in most cases, much less an idea as specific as that. Far less when it has only one meaning. Ancient Isreal had plenty of meanings outaide of a religious context for words, and there's no reason to jump to conclusions and believe this word has such a meaning on its own when that's the case.

I hope this edifies you all. God bless.

That doesn't really work does it?

Matthew 7:21

Not everyone who says to me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one DOES(my emphasis )the will of my heavenly Father.

it's not faith alone it's both faith and works.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

@Reggie Belafonte I think you are misunderstanding what @Sister-n-Christ is talking about. See my quote above.

Most people believe the water Jesus referred to is when a mother's water breaks before childbirth.

Being born of the Spirit (born again) is when we have believed on Christ as our Savior and the Holy Spirit comes to indwell us.

See what Jesus said below...

5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said, ‘You must be born again.’ John 3:5-7

No one could be so stupid ! that is the most unheard of thing I have ever heard of !

Fact is, it's about John the baptist ! he baptised with Water ! for the remissions of Sin !

Jesus is Salvation !

Christ Jesus is about one who is Saved ! because one truly is of the Body of Christ and he The Head their off ! so you abide in him ! Saved !
One is alive in him, Saved ! because one is his ? no one can snatch such a one out of his hand !

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

No one could be so stupid ! that is the most unheard of thing I have ever heard of !

Fact is, it's about John the baptist ! he baptised with Water ! for the remissions of Sin !

Jesus is Salvation !

Christ Jesus is about one who is Saved ! because one truly is of the Body of Christ and he The Head their off ! so you abide in him ! Saved !
One is alive in him, Saved ! because one is his ? no one can snatch such a one out of his hand !

One is not saved unless baptized with water then?

 

[nedsk]

One is not saved unless baptized with water then?

1Peter 3:21 says so

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

1Peter 3:21 says so

So, Dismas,the penitent thief on the cross, the woman at the wel, the woman who anointed the feet of Jesus, and others,were not saved because they weren't baptized?

 

[nedsk]

So, Dismas,the penitent thief on the cross, the woman at the wel, the woman who anointed the feet of Jesus, and others,were not saved because they weren't baptized?

So, Dismas,the penitent thief on the cross, the woman at the wel, the woman who anointed the feet of Jesus, and others,were not saved because they weren't baptized?

And? That doesn't negate what we read in Peter. Jesus is God and he can do what he likes with his mercy but it doesn't nullify what else is taught. I'm not sure why people make this specious argument. By your telling those examples render Peters words meaningless. Nothing in Scripture is meaningless. Besides Matthew 20: 1-16

 

[mailmandan]

That doesn't really work does it?

Matthew 7:21

Not everyone who says to me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one DOES(my emphasis )the will of my heavenly Father.

it's not faith alone it's both faith and works.

John 6:40 - For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

It's faith (rightly understood) in Jesus Christ alone. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9 etc..).

 

[nedsk]

John 6:40 - For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

It's faith (rightly understood) in Jesus Christ alone. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9 etc..).

So matt 7:21 and James 2:24 are lies? Or contradictions? When you add "rightly" understood that means your way not what the Bible says. On what authority do you speak infallibly about what Scripture says?

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

And? That doesn't negate what we read in Peter. Jesus is God and he can do what he likes with his mercy but it doesn't nullify what else is taught. I'm not sure why people make this specious argument. By your telling those examples render Peters words meaningless. Nothing in Scripture is meaningless. Besides Matthew 20: 1-16

Please don't read negative intent into what was my question.

When we choose to put conditions on God's grace gift we lose.
If a teaching implies or states outright that we are not saved without Baptism,those examples in the woman at the well, the penitent thief, the woman who anointed the feet of Jesus, and even those in regions of our world where water is scarce, are not saved without Baptism,we are in error.

And those prior examples from the Bible should tell us this. Because the ministry of our Lord led by his example.

What do we then say? Those I referred to in the Bible were saved because Jesus said so. But unless we are immersed in water, a recreation of the Mikvah, we are not saved because Jesus 1Peter 3:21 says so?

Jesus is the water of life.
Jesus dying on the cross and taking the sins of the world upon himself there saves us.

Baptism is a symbol. If faith and obedience.
However,we are saved by the grace of God. Not of ourselves so that we cannot boast. Or, apply absolutes and conditions of works, to make it so.

Acts 16:31 says, "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved, you and your household."

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

So matt 7:21 and James 2:24 are lies? Or contradictions? When you add "rightly" understood that means your way not what the Bible says. On what authority do you speak infallibly about what Scripture says?

Lies? No .
You cannot argue away how God brings us to himself. You don't understand it is not by our efforts. It is by faith. We are saved not of ourselves but by the free irrevocable grace gift of God.

 

[nedsk]

Please don't read negative intent into what was my question.

When we choose to put conditions on God's grace gift we lose.
If a teaching implies or states outright that we are not saved without Baptism,those examples in the woman at the well, the penitent thief, the woman who anointed the feet of Jesus, and even those in regions of our world where water is scarce, are not saved without Baptism,we are in error.

And those prior examples from the Bible should tell us this. Because the ministry of our Lord led by his example.

What do we then say? Those I referred to in the Bible were saved because Jesus said so. But unless we are immersed in water, a recreation of the Mikvah, we are not saved because Jesus 1Peter 3:21 says so?

Jesus is the water of life.
Jesus dying on the cross and taking the sins of the world upon himself there saves us.

Baptism is a symbol. If faith and obedience.
However,we are saved by the grace of God. Not of ourselves so that we cannot boast. Or, apply absolutes and conditions of works, to make it so.

Acts 16:31 says, "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved, you and your household."

I'm not reading into anything. You're making a choice to pay attention to certain verses which don't exactly jive with your claim it's simply belief in Jesus. I am not God and cannot create what does exist I can only observe what is. Please don't preach at me. I'm asking you to reconcile the different messages. It's very simple.

 

[nedsk]

Lies? No .
You cannot argue away how God brings us to himself. You don't understand it is not by our efforts. It is by faith. We are saved not of ourselves but by the free irrevocable grace gift of God.

Yes by faith which is a gift of grace but not faith alone. Scripture is clear on that point and examples of instances were it was just faith do not negate the clear fact that faith alone is dead faith. Please don't start with the, how many works do you need to do silliness. It's all in Scripture what is BOTH sufficient AND necessary for salvation.

 

[mailmandan]

So matt 7:21 and James 2:24 are lies? Or contradictions? When you add "rightly" understood that means your way not what the Bible says. On what authority do you speak infallibly about what Scripture says?

Neither Matthew 7:21 or John 6:40 (which are in perfect harmony) are a lie. These many people in Matthew 7:22 were trusting in their works for salvation and not in Jesus Christ alone. In verse 23 we read thatJesus never knew them which means they were never saved.

In regard to James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

Context matters. In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So, when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith.

So, James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Yes by faith which is a gift of grace but not faith alone. Scripture is clear on that point and examples of instances were it was just faith do not negate the clear fact that faith alone is dead faith. Please don't start with the, how many works do you need to do silliness. It's all in Scripture what is BOTH sufficient AND necessary for salvation.

Good work is the result of our being in faith. Not that what secures our Salvation.

Jesus did all the work needed for that on the cross.

You won't believe me saying that. You don't believe Jesus himself saying that.

You write your own doctrine based on conditions you insist apply to you.
And be assured,your argument is personal and unto you it applies as such.

Because Jesus never said what you twist of his teachings so to insist he did.

Your Sophistry does not save you .

And Born Again Christians cannot believe you. Because your ideas about the Gospel are wrong.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

I'm not reading into anything. You're making a choice to pay attention to certain verses which don't exactly jive with your claim it's simply belief in Jesus. I am not God and cannot create what does exist I can only observe what is. Please don't preach at me. I'm asking you to reconcile the different messages. It's very simple.

It is simple.
I tried to reconcile them and you refused to see.

You're wrong. Only God can help you.

 

[nedsk]

Neither Matthew 7:21 or John 6:40 (which are in perfect harmony) are a lie.

In regard to James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

Context matters. In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So, when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith.

So, James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.

Please cite where I said we are saved by works. This is what happens every time. It's too predictable

 

[nedsk]

Good work is the result of our being in faith. Not that what secures our Salvation.

Jesus did all the work needed for that on the cross.

You won't believe me saying that. You don't believe Jesus himself saying that.

You write your own doctrine based on conditions you insist apply to you.
And be assured,your argument is personal and unto you it applies as such.

Because Jesus never said what you twist of his teachings so to insist he did.

Your Sophistry does not save you .

And Born Again Christians cannot believe you. Because your ideas about the Gospel are wrong.

Please cite where I said works secures our salvation. Rote response don't work on me. Cite where I made that claim

 

[mailmandan]

Please cite where I said we are saved by works. This is what happens every time. It's too predictable

You said - "it's not faith alone it's both faith and works."

 

[nedsk]

It is simple.
I tried to reconcile them and you refused to see.

You're wrong. Only God can help you.

Not you didn't reconcile anything. They are conflicting messages by your accounting and I get what I always get when I confront these claims. So predictable. Faith is necessary but clearly NOT sufficient.

You said - "it's not faith alone it's both faith and works."

Correct just like Scripture says. "Faith alone" appears only once in Scripture.