Why I am leaving this forum

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ronmorgen

New Member
Apr 5, 2011
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Pre-trib. rapture is a destructive heresy. They think they will leave this world before the Antichrist arrives so they are not on guard, and may buy into his deception, and join with him. They think there will be a 7 year treaty so what if a world leader and the Pali's get a 7 treaty? Oh, they'll be all for that because he can't possibly be the antichrist can he. Bingo! They have taken the mark which is not a tattoo or a chip, but rather it is either helping him with their hand or their mind. (a mark on his right hand or on his forehead Rev 13:16).
By the way I believe in the bottom one - Amillennialism.
Millennialviews.png
 

tgwprophet

New Member
Jul 9, 2011
869
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Lehigh Acres, Florida
You know, I get so sick and tired of people claiming that because I believe in the pre-tribulation rapture, that I will run out and fall down and worship the Antichrist, and that unless I embrace the belief that Jesus is a sick and perverted wife-beater, who relishes the thought of allowing his bride to suffer under the hand of the Antichrist that I am going to take the Mark the first chance I get.


Rev 13:7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.


I have to believe that the Saints in Revelation are the Church, and that they will be overcome. To me this is the same as a man taking his wife, you know the one who he claims to love and cherish, that he takes his wife to this other man to let him beat her. And what is the reason? Oh that's right, it is because she needs to be purified. Gotcha. Now according to some of the people on this forum, if we dare to suggest that we don't agree with this version of Jesus, then we will be so misguided that we will run out and not only worship the Antichrist, but we will be first in line to take his Mark, and spend eternity in Hell.


Now, let's forget about the fact that I believe that when Jesus catches us away, I firmly believe that he is going to carry us to Heaven, so anyone who is on the earth, and claims to be Jesus Christ, I would immediately disregard as a false prophet. Let's not mention the fact that Scriptures are very, very clear about what will happen when Jesus does physically return to the earth, it will only be after the Tribulation, he will touch down on the Mount of olives, which will split along a fault located there with one half going one way and the other half going the other. Let's totally disregard the fact that the scriptures are very clear about what the AC will do, how he will treat the world governments, and the Tribulation Saints, and what events are surrounding Jesus' second coming.


If we are wrong then, we are going to totally throw out all of the study that we have done about Jesus' coming and about the Antichrist, and totally fall for the AC's lie, hook, line, and sinker. This is perhaps the most idiotic and childish thing that could have been said. This is even more offensive then the people who claim that we are going to be so heartbroken that we were wrong about the pretribuation rapture, we are going to run out and take the mark the first chance we get.



You know there is a real difference between defending your stance on a topic, as in a post tribulation rapture, and constantly attacking another person's stance. I really do not have a problem with a person standing up and defending what they believe to be true. I really don't have a problem with a person starting a thread and stating why they believe the way they do. I really don't. But I am sick, sick, SICK of constantly coming on here and seeing post, after post, after post, after post, after post, after post attacking the position of the pretribulation rapture, posts that question the dedication of people who believe in the pretribulation rapture, posts that question the Salvation of people who believe in the pretribulation rapture, posts that question the intelligence of people who believe in the pretribulation rapture, posts that question the love of God of people who believe in the pretribulation rapture, posts that imply or state out right that people who believe in the pretribulation rapture are demon possessed and are serving the devil.


The problem here is that there is a fundamental lack of respect when it comes to the pretribulation rapture. Notice I did not say lack of agreement, I said lack of respect. There is a lack of respect for the position, which is bad enough, but there is also a vast lack of respect for the people, your brothers and sisters, who hold that position. And this is something that I just can't take anymore.


Now you may ask, "IF the pretribulation position is wrong, then why do I have to respect it?" I will tell you. Because it is the only way to have meaningful discussion on the topic. I try very very hard to be respectful to other people, even if, and especially if, I disagree with them. I am not here claiming that I am always successful. But, I try very hard to always make the attempt. I will say, "Well I disagree with you about that, and this is why", which is totally different than, "You are wrong, and will take the Mark and you will go to Hell and be damned for all eternity." Am I the only one who notices this fact? Or is it that since most of the people on this site believe in the posttribulation rapture, that the people who believe in the pretribulation rapture are fair game? Is that it?



There have been other boards on the internet that I have joined that have been pre-tribulational. I left them because they were not respectful of people who believed in a post tribulational rapture. I defended the post tribulationist so much, that most of them didn't really know what I believed.


In closing, let me say that I do not consider myself anything but a student of the Word. I know that the only thing that I know for sure is that I don't know it all, and if you truly feel that I am wrong in my interpretation, then all I can ask you to do is to pray for me. I wish you all God's blessing. Know that I will not stop studying, I will not stop learning.


Good luck


Your brother in Christ,


Joshua David




Joshua David, though I understand a mid-term rapture, I for one never intend for you to feel in any way shape manner of form - lesser fur to your beliefs. God bless
 

imin

New Member
Aug 13, 2011
15
1
0
hi
i havent seen all the posts in the past regarding this topic, but tell me if anyone has heard someone (i cant remember who) preached on this subject:

first, a rapture of Christ's bride

then, unlike the "left behind" scenerio.

those left on earth who do not belong to Christ are preached to by the 2 witnesses and the newly Messianic Jews

The Second Coming of Christ then happens, with all the terror and upheaval

THEN those who Listened to the Jews will inhabit the New Earth, and those who were raptured are in the New Heaven and the Millenium begins

i am not saying this is right or wrong, i just remember hearing it
 

veteran

New Member
Aug 6, 2010
6,509
212
0
Southeast USA
hi
i havent seen all the posts in the past regarding this topic, but tell me if anyone has heard someone (i cant remember who) preached on this subject:

first, a rapture of Christ's bride

then, unlike the "left behind" scenerio.

those left on earth who do not belong to Christ are preached to by the 2 witnesses and the newly Messianic Jews

The Second Coming of Christ then happens, with all the terror and upheaval

THEN those who Listened to the Jews will inhabit the New Earth, and those who were raptured are in the New Heaven and the Millenium begins

i am not saying this is right or wrong, i just remember hearing it


The Pre-tribulational rapture doctrine originated in 1830's Great Britain. See history of the Edward Irving movement and John Darby and the 'Brethren' movement in Britain. Darby is also who began a form of Dispensationalism in order to support the Pre-trib rapture lie; it's designed to do that separation of Israel and Christ's Church that you mention.

The "Left-Behind" main author is Tim LaHaye, a preacher of the Pre-trib school.
 

TWC

New Member
Dec 1, 2008
141
4
0
40
hi
i havent seen all the posts in the past regarding this topic, but tell me if anyone has heard someone (i cant remember who) preached on this subject:

first, a rapture of Christ's bride

then, unlike the "left behind" scenerio.

those left on earth who do not belong to Christ are preached to by the 2 witnesses and the newly Messianic Jews

The Second Coming of Christ then happens, with all the terror and upheaval

THEN those who Listened to the Jews will inhabit the New Earth, and those who were raptured are in the New Heaven and the Millenium begins

i am not saying this is right or wrong, i just remember hearing it

This is another problem.

Should we (Christians) reach out to the Jews? Of course not! They'll all get saved after the rapture!

I've actually heard people take this position. It's a symptom of a much more serious problem.
 

JB_Reformed Baptist

Many are called but few are chosen.
Feb 23, 2013
860
24
18
AUSTRALIA
Joshua David said:
You know, I get so sick and tired of people claiming that because I believe in the pre-tribulation rapture, that I will run out and fall down and worship the Antichrist, and that unless I embrace the belief that Jesus is a sick and perverted wife-beater, who relishes the thought of allowing his bride to suffer under the hand of the Antichrist that I am going to take the Mark the first chance I get.


Rev 13:7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.


I have to believe that the Saints in Revelation are the Church, and that they will be overcome. To me this is the same as a man taking his wife, you know the one who he claims to love and cherish, that he takes his wife to this other man to let him beat her. And what is the reason? Oh that's right, it is because she needs to be purified. Gotcha. Now according to some of the people on this forum, if we dare to suggest that we don't agree with this version of Jesus, then we will be so misguided that we will run out and not only worship the Antichrist, but we will be first in line to take his Mark, and spend eternity in Hell.


Now, let's forget about the fact that I believe that when Jesus catches us away, I firmly believe that he is going to carry us to Heaven, so anyone who is on the earth, and claims to be Jesus Christ, I would immediately disregard as a false prophet. Let's not mention the fact that Scriptures are very, very clear about what will happen when Jesus does physically return to the earth, it will only be after the Tribulation, he will touch down on the Mount of olives, which will split along a fault located there with one half going one way and the other half going the other. Let's totally disregard the fact that the scriptures are very clear about what the AC will do, how he will treat the world governments, and the Tribulation Saints, and what events are surrounding Jesus' second coming.


If we are wrong then, we are going to totally throw out all of the study that we have done about Jesus' coming and about the Antichrist, and totally fall for the AC's lie, hook, line, and sinker. This is perhaps the most idiotic and childish thing that could have been said. This is even more offensive then the people who claim that we are going to be so heartbroken that we were wrong about the pretribuation rapture, we are going to run out and take the mark the first chance we get.



You know there is a real difference between defending your stance on a topic, as in a post tribulation rapture, and constantly attacking another person's stance. I really do not have a problem with a person standing up and defending what they believe to be true. I really don't have a problem with a person starting a thread and stating why they believe the way they do. I really don't. But I am sick, sick, SICK of constantly coming on here and seeing post, after post, after post, after post, after post, after post attacking the position of the pretribulation rapture, posts that question the dedication of people who believe in the pretribulation rapture, posts that question the Salvation of people who believe in the pretribulation rapture, posts that question the intelligence of people who believe in the pretribulation rapture, posts that question the love of God of people who believe in the pretribulation rapture, posts that imply or state out right that people who believe in the pretribulation rapture are demon possessed and are serving the devil.


The problem here is that there is a fundamental lack of respect when it comes to the pretribulation rapture. Notice I did not say lack of agreement, I said lack of respect. There is a lack of respect for the position, which is bad enough, but there is also a vast lack of respect for the people, your brothers and sisters, who hold that position. And this is something that I just can't take anymore.


Now you may ask, "IF the pretribulation position is wrong, then why do I have to respect it?" I will tell you. Because it is the only way to have meaningful discussion on the topic. I try very very hard to be respectful to other people, even if, and especially if, I disagree with them. I am not here claiming that I am always successful. But, I try very hard to always make the attempt. I will say, "Well I disagree with you about that, and this is why", which is totally different than, "You are wrong, and will take the Mark and you will go to Hell and be damned for all eternity." Am I the only one who notices this fact? Or is it that since most of the people on this site believe in the posttribulation rapture, that the people who believe in the pretribulation rapture are fair game? Is that it?



There have been other boards on the internet that I have joined that have been pre-tribulational. I left them because they were not respectful of people who believed in a post tribulational rapture. I defended the post tribulationist so much, that most of them didn't really know what I believed.


In closing, let me say that I do not consider myself anything but a student of the Word. I know that the only thing that I know for sure is that I don't know it all, and if you truly feel that I am wrong in my interpretation, then all I can ask you to do is to pray for me. I wish you all God's blessing. Know that I will not stop studying, I will not stop learning.


Good luck


Your brother in Christ,


Joshua David
Joshua,

I know many people who believe in a pre trib rapture and myself also believed in the past. But I think that if a thing as a seven year trib happens then there might be just a few confused and scared individuals in the christian camp. But this in no means that such individuals would be inclined to do as you or others may have suggested.

Personally, I believe it will be a time of strengthening those brethren that held to such a view and a time of encouragement to stand the "trial of their faith", but in no means ANY condemnation to such as they are the beloved. If we do enter into this trib and we are still around to go through it, I already know that God will be using people like me to encourage, comfort and instruct his saints that they as before will continue to "look unto Jesus" in their hour of tribulation.

Brother, take heart GOD is not mocked and he will not let ANY of his sheep perish. Whatever be the situation whether we are facing - if at all- a pre, mid or post rapture, be assured God loves his own.

Let me to finish with this from the scriptures and take note it is 'through MUCH tribulation we must enter God's kingdom.':


Psalm 115:16

Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of his saints.

Shalom :)
 

Eric E Stahl

New Member
May 28, 2013
388
13
0
Pa. USA
JB_ said:
Joshua,

I know many people who believe in a pre trib rapture and myself also believed in the past. But I think that if a thing as a seven year trib happens then there might be just a few confused and scared individuals in the christian camp. But this in no means that such individuals would be inclined to do as you or others may have suggested.

Personally, I believe it will be a time of strengthening those brethren that held to such a view and a time of encouragement to stand the "trial of their faith", but in no means ANY condemnation to such as they are the beloved. If we do enter into this trib and we are still around to go through it, I already know that God will be using people like me to encourage, comfort and instruct his saints that they as before will continue to "look unto Jesus" in their hour of tribulation.

Brother, take heart GOD is not mocked and he will not let ANY of his sheep perish. Whatever be the situation whether we are facing - if at all- a pre, mid or post rapture, be assured God loves his own.

Let me to finish with this from the scriptures and take note it is 'through MUCH tribulation we must enter God's kingdom.':


Psalm 115:16

Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of his saints.

Shalom :)
JB,

Pre Tribulation Rapture

1 Thessalonians 5:1-11
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; [SIZE=16pt]then sudden destruction cometh upon them[/SIZE], as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

[SIZE=14pt](((The church age saints will not go through the tribulation)))[/SIZE]

4[SIZE=16pt]But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.[/SIZE]

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11[SIZE=16pt]Wherefore comfort yourselves together[/SIZE], and edify one another, even as also ye do.


2 Peter 3:10-14
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12[SIZE=16pt]Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God[/SIZE], wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

[SIZE=16pt](((Why)))[/SIZE]

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

[SIZE=14pt](((So)))[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]14[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without [/SIZE]
 

JB_Reformed Baptist

Many are called but few are chosen.
Feb 23, 2013
860
24
18
AUSTRALIA
JB_ said:
Joshua,

I know many people who believe in a pre trib rapture and myself also believed in the past. But I think that if a thing as a seven year trib happens then there might be just a few confused and scared individuals in the christian camp. But this in no means that such individuals would be inclined to do as you or others may have suggested.

Personally, I believe it will be a time of strengthening those brethren that held to such a view and a time of encouragement to stand the "trial of their faith", but in no means ANY condemnation to such as they are the beloved. If we do enter into this trib and we are still around to go through it, I already know that God will be using people like me to encourage, comfort and instruct his saints that they as before will continue to "look unto Jesus" in their hour of tribulation.

Brother, take heart GOD is not mocked and he will not let ANY of his sheep perish. Whatever be the situation whether we are facing - if at all- a pre, mid or post rapture, be assured God loves his own.

Let me to finish with this from the scriptures and take note it is 'through MUCH tribulation we must enter God's kingdom.':


Psalm 116:15

Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of his saints.

Shalom :)
Psalm 116.15
 

JB_Reformed Baptist

Many are called but few are chosen.
Feb 23, 2013
860
24
18
AUSTRALIA
Eric E Stahl said:
JB,

Pre Tribulation Rapture

1 Thessalonians 5:1-11
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; [SIZE=16pt]then sudden destruction cometh upon them[/SIZE], as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

[SIZE=14pt](((The church age saints will not go through the tribulation)))[/SIZE]

4[SIZE=16pt]But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.[/SIZE]

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11[SIZE=16pt]Wherefore comfort yourselves together[/SIZE], and edify one another, even as also ye do.


2 Peter 3:10-14
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12[SIZE=16pt]Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God[/SIZE], wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

[SIZE=16pt](((Why)))[/SIZE]

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

[SIZE=14pt](((So)))[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]14[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without [/SIZE]
OK. WE must stand together on essentials and give latitude for nonessentials such as this. I know this for sure NOT one of us will be saying on the day of the rapture; see I told you so! Let us strive for peace and never let this type of difference in belief separate us. For it will amount to nothing on that day.

SHALOM to you. :)
 

Brothertom

All for Jesus no matter the cost.
May 1, 2012
365
12
0
Bottom of Illinois
We confuse faith with relationship; "I believe" then becomes a fortress of doctrinal stances built around your particular style of dogma. I suggest you put away everything but the Bible, & try to see what Jesus, the Prophets & the Apostles were really saying.

Like this:
"Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. THEN the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn,
and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

So, what is Jesus really trying to say? Before? the Tribulation of those days?...or.....he is coming twice? One secret, one publc? & once before the whole world?

I hope this reveals to you that deception has entered your mind....& no...your not lost....if you have been born again....but you are in danger of being a foolish virgin, NOT ABLE to prepare for the dark night for lack of Holy Spirit oil.

Again:...
"Behold, I have told you before.
Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Secret?....Believe it not.
 

Justin Mangonel

New Member
Nov 7, 2012
593
28
0
Well,

I believe in the rapture for very scriptural reasons and it really does not bother me if others don't believe. It is not something to leave a forum over though. People can be very mean, yes, but then again that is their problem not yours.

Blessings,

Justin
 

mjrhealth

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2009
11,810
4,090
113
Australia
Faith
Christian
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I had a friend who left teh company I workd for becasue seh didnt like the company though the people where nice, she ended up in a job, where she liked teh company but couldnet stand the people.
.
I suggest you put away everything but the Bible, & try to see what Jesus, the Prophets & the Apostles were really saying
If I was you I would put everythinhg away and ask Jesus Himself what is happening, you cant go wrong with Him.

In all His Love