Why is Christianity so focused on Sin?

[BreadOfLife]

The reason you have Protestants is because of the error of the Roman Church. Don't blame us. You couldn't keep your own house in order. You allowed the heresy to enter and infect the Church. As a result, the Catholic Church had to kick you out.

Roman Catholic is an oxymoron... no pun intended.

Stranger

First of all - there's no such thing as the "Roman" Church. There is the Catholic Church in Rome.
It's not even called the "Roman Catholic" Church,

Face it - you're just another angry, revisionist Protestant.
Your sect was created by men after the 16th century . . .

Your ignorance is out of control . . .

 

[Stranger]

I never accused you of saying that God died.
I asked you if God died and you have YET to answer.

You're not a Catholic - you're a Protestant.
There is no such thing as a "Romanist". That's just a pathetic little pejorative slung by anti-Catholics like yourself.

Yes you did. Post #135. To which I responded with questions that you never answer in post #136.

I'm not anti-Catholic. I am Catholic. I am part of the universal Body of Christ. I'm just not a Romanist.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

First of all - there's no such thing as the "Roman" Church. There is the Catholic Church in Rome.
It's not even called the "Roman Catholic" Church,

Face it - you're just another angry, revisionist Protestant.
Your sect was created by men after the 16th century . . .

Your ignorance is out of control . . .

That's strange. Paul simply said, "To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints:..." (Rom.1:7) That is the local Roman Church.

There is no universal church at Rome. It is just a local church. And if it is just a local church at Rome, then Rome has no supremacy over any other churches. But Rome does claim supremacy. Thus making it what it claims to be, the Roman Catholic Church. An oxymoron.

All born-again Christians make up the universal Body of Christ. The Catholic Church.

Stranger

 

[Wormwood]

The only thing you seem to be missing is that Jesus is GOD.
My question was a simple one: Did God die on the cross?

Did God die on the cross? First, God, as in the Triune being consisting of Father, Son and Spirit did not die on the cross because Jesus was the Son of God. So let us not confuse "God" as the Triune being with one of the persons of the Trinity, namely, God the Son.

Second, as you pointed out, Jesus died just as any other person died. I agree with you that a person's spirit does not die upon the death of the body. In the same way, Christ's Spirit did not die upon the death of his body. So, in that way, Jesus' death was no different than any other person. Again, our spirit does not die upon physical death and neither did Christ's. So, no...the divine Spirit did not die...but neither do ours (except in the Second death). So, I still dont see what your point is.

Christ was the price. His death paid for our justification. The Son of God had to die so we could live and his righteousness is applied to our lives through our living faith in his word and work.

 

[mjrhealth]

How could God die on the cross. The very thing that hold all this together is His word, if God was to die His word would perish with Him and all this would come undone, and we would no longer exist

 

[Mungo]

How could God die on the cross. The very thing that hold all this together is His word, if God was to die His word would perish with Him and all this would come undone, and we would no longer exist

[SIZE=11pt]Jesus is God.
Jesus died on the Cross.
therefore:
God died on the Cross.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Historically in Christianity death is the separation of body and soul. The body becomes corrupt but the soul lives on. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]On the cross therefore Jesus died because his human body and human soul separated. The person, Jesus, was God (second person of the Trinity) and therefore it is correct to say that God died on the cross.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]However his divine person remained united to his human body as well as his human soul. So perhaps we can say that God (the Son) in his divinity did not die, but God (the Son) in his humanity did experience death. However as we cannot separate Jesus’ divinity and his humanity it is correct to say that God died on the cross.[/SIZE]

 

[epostle1]

Yes you did. Post #135. To which I responded with questions that you never answer in post #136.

I'm not anti-Catholic. I am Catholic. I am part of the universal Body of Christ. I'm just not a Romanist.

Stranger

Neither am I. "Romanist" and "papist" were insults originating in reformist propaganda. Before that they were unheard of. They are still insults, commonly used by ignorant bigots. Just use "CC" (not RCC). It's easier to type and more accurate.

That's strange. Paul simply said, "To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints:..." (Rom.1:7) That is the local Roman Church.

That proves nothing. After the death of James, central authority shifted from Jerusalem to Rome. How many Christians and when they got to Rome doesn't mean anything either because no church can call themselves a church without an Apostle or an ordained bishop. Don't you do ANY critical research?
There is no universal church at Rome. It is just a local church. And if it is just a local church at Rome, then Rome has no supremacy over any other churches. But Rome does claim supremacy. Thus making it what it claims to be, the Roman Catholic Church. An oxymoron.

Again, "Roman Catholic Church" to basket all Catholics was invented by the Anglicans in the 16th century so they could keep the term "Catholic" for themselves.
There are 23 rites in the CC and only one of them is "Roman", or "Latin". Did the other 22 disappear? I've told you this how many times? You have a habit of repeating the same falsehoods.

The eventual centrality of Rome is easy to prove, you are forced to re-write history or ignore it altogether.

All born-again Christians make up the universal Body of Christ. The Catholic Church.

That's true, but in varying degrees of separation from the historic Church. We are theologically closer to the Lutherans than we are to the store front "born again" Bible cults. Even "born again" has numerous definitions.

Did God die on the cross? First, God, as in the Triune being consisting of Father, Son and Spirit did not die on the cross because Jesus was the Son of God. So let us not confuse "God" as the Triune being with one of the persons of the Trinity, namely, God the Son.

Second, as you pointed out, Jesus died just as any other person died. I agree with you that a person's spirit does not die upon the death of the body. In the same way, Christ's Spirit did not die upon the death of his body. So, in that way, Jesus' death was no different than any other person. Again, our spirit does not die upon physical death and neither did Christ's. So, no...the divine Spirit did not die...but neither do ours (except in the Second death). So, I still dont see what your point is.

Christ was the price. His death paid for our justification. The Son of God had to die so we could live and his righteousness is applied to our lives through our living faith in his word and work.

Agreed.

[SIZE=11pt]Jesus is God.
Jesus died on the Cross.
therefore:
God died on the Cross.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Historically in Christianity death is the separation of body and soul. The body becomes corrupt but the soul lives on. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]On the cross therefore Jesus died because his human body and human soul separated. The person, Jesus, was God (second person of the Trinity) and therefore it is correct to say that God died on the cross.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]However his divine person remained united to his human body as well as his human soul. So perhaps we can say that God (the Son) in his divinity did not die, but God (the Son) in his humanity did experience death. However as we cannot separate Jesus’ divinity and his humanity it is correct to say that God died on the cross.[/SIZE]

Let me put it another way. I understand what you are saying, but God can't die. This may seem a bit confusing:

Acts 20:28 - to care for the Church of God which He obtained with His own blood. This means God shed His blood. When? When He died on the cross. This means Jesus is God.

John 10:30 - Jesus says, "I and the Father are one." They are equal. The Jews even claimed Jesus made Himself equal to God. Jesus' statement in John 14:28, "the Father is greater than I," cannot contradict John 10:30 (the Word of God is never in conflict). Jesus' statement in John 14:28 simply refers to His human messianic role as servant and slave, which He, and not the Father or the Holy Spirit, undertook in the flesh.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes you did. Post #135. To which I responded with questions that you never answer in post #136.

I'm not anti-Catholic. I am Catholic. I am part of the universal Body of Christ. I'm just not a Romanist.

Stranger

No - you just another angry, revisionist, Protestant.

 

[BreadOfLife]

That's strange. Paul simply said, "To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints:..." (Rom.1:7) That is the local Roman Church.

There is no universal church at Rome. It is just a local church. And if it is just a local church at Rome, then Rome has no supremacy over any other churches. But Rome does claim supremacy. Thus making it what it claims to be, the Roman Catholic Church. An oxymoron.

All born-again Christians make up the universal Body of Christ. The Catholic Church.

Stranger

The Vatican is where the Catholic Church is headquartered.
The Bishop of Rome, being the Successor of the Chief Apostle, Peter and the Vicar of Christ has earthly jurisdiction over the Church on earth (Matt. 16:189-19).

The fact that YOU, a rebellious Protestant, reject this truth is totally irrelevant.

 

[Stranger]

No - you just another angry, revisionist, Protestant.

That's deep stuff your presenting.

What about your accusation in post #135? Did you accuse or did you not? Rather ignore it?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

The Vatican is where the Catholic Church is headquartered.
The Bishop of Rome, being the Successor of the Chief Apostle, Peter and the Vicar of Christ has earthly jurisdiction over the Church on earth (Matt. 16:189-19).

The fact that YOU, a rebellious Protestant, reject this truth is totally irrelevant.

(Rom.1:7) "To all that be in Rome...called to be saints...." Again, a local church. Not a universal church. No supremacy.

No, the Vatican is where the Roman church is headquartered. The universal Church of Christ is headquartered in the heaven in Christ at the right hand of God.

The vicar of Christ has earthly jurisdiction over the Church? Dream on.

Stranger

 

[mjrhealth]

[SIZE=11pt]Jesus is God.
Jesus died on the Cross.
therefore:
God died on the Cross.[/SIZE]

Bible doesnt say Jesus was God

Joh_1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth
God wasnt made flesh, His word was

And teh pharisses didnt accuse Jesus of being God they accused him of

Joh_5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Php_2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Why do you want God to die????

 

[lforrest]

Bible doesnt say Jesus was God

This is a belief held by many cults. No amount of equivocation can make it true, because Jesus is God.

 

[BreadOfLife]

That's deep stuff your presenting.

What about your accusation in post #135? Did you accuse or did you not? Rather ignore it?

Stranger

Here is my post from #135:

If you believe that Jesus was the price and you believe that He is God - then you have to come to the conclusion that GOD died.
The only way you can side-step this is to reject His deity.

Jesus is FAR more than just blood . . .

Where is the "accusation"??

 

[BreadOfLife]

Bible doesnt say Jesus was God

Joh_1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth
God wasnt made flesh, His word was

And teh pharisses didnt accuse Jesus of being God they accused him of

Joh_5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Php_2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Why do you want God to die????

Wrong.

The Bible is littered with verses about Jesus being God [SIZE=11pt](Psalm 110:1, Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6, 1 Timothy 3:16, Matthew 1:23, Mark 14:61-62, Luke 7:16, John 1:1, John 5:18, John 10:30, John 10:33, John 10:36, John 13:13, John 14:9-10).[/SIZE]

 

[mjrhealth]

Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

You really should read what you quoate

Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

As I said why do you want God to die....

 

[BreadOfLife]

(Rom.1:7) "To all that be in Rome...called to be saints...." Again, a local church. Not a universal church. No supremacy.

No, the Vatican is where the Roman church is headquartered. The universal Church of Christ is headquartered in the heaven in Christ at the right hand of God.

The vicar of Christ has earthly jurisdiction over the Church? Dream on.

Stranger

Matt 16:18-19
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. WHATEVER YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and WHATEVER YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Matt. 18:15-18
"If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.
If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.'
If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
Amen, I say to you, WHATEVER YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and WHATEVER YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.


John 16:12-15
“I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to ALL truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to YOU the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.
Everything that the Father has is MINE; for this reason I told you that he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.

2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT - OR by a letter from us."

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME.

What part of "WHATEVER" are you having difficulty with??
What part of whoever rejects YOU rejects ME don't you understand??
Is there an expiration date on 2 Thess. 2:15??

 

[Stranger]

Here is my post from #135:

If you believe that Jesus was the price and you believe that He is God - then you have to come to the conclusion that GOD died.
The only way you can side-step this is to reject His deity.

Jesus is FAR more than just blood . . .

Where is the "accusation"??

How blind are the blind. You just presented the accusation. You said, "I (Stranger) have to come to the conclusion that GOD died". I smell a crawfish.

To which I responded in post #136, and to which you never answer: "In your post # 82 you said the price of sin is death and that Jesus paid the price. How then are you not saying that God died? Or, are you saying Jesus is not God?" Ummm?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

BreadOfLife

Concerning your post #177, save your google lists for someone else.

You don't understand these Scriptures and don't even try to explain them. You just throw them out there, like I am supposed to be so in awe. Your knowledge is 'google'. Just like the knowledge of the Romanists. Let others tell you what to believe.

Do you own a Bible?

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

How blind are the blind. You just presented the accusation. You said, "I (Stranger) have to come to the conclusion that GOD died". I smell a crawfish.

To which I responded in post #136, and to which you never answer: "In your post # 82 you said the price of sin is death and that Jesus paid the price. How then are you not saying that God died? Or, are you saying Jesus is not God?" Ummm?

Stranger

Huh???
There is no "accusation" in my statement. It's a hypothetical (sorry for the big word).

R*E*A*D it again, Einstein:
IF you believe that Jesus was the price and you believe that He is God - THEN you have to come to the conclusion that GOD died.

You argue for the sake of arguing - no matter how asinine your premise . . .