Why is Hell Eternal?

[Arnie Manitoba]

I have come to a somewhat different conclusion

The bible does not explicitly say so .... but i think it must be a case that EVERYBODY is created as an ETERNAL BEING and it cannot be ended .... just categorized ..... eg: some go to heaven .... some go to hell.

i think that applies to both humans and angels

Just a guess on my part

A poor comparison can be found in physics which states energy cannot be destroyed .... it can only change forms.

of course God can operate outside of physics as we know it .... but then again he set up the laws of physics in the first place

mankind feel clever they discovered and harnessed the power of the atom ..... but somehow God put the original energy into the atom .... now thats really something !!

sorry to drift .... but I repeat that we are probably created as eternal beings and thus hell has to be eternal as well.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
†. Jude 1:7 . . Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them . . are
placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial
punishment of everlasting fire.

The ancient Greek word for "everlasting" in that passage is aionios (ahee-o'
nee-os) which means: perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future
as well)

Were it possible for everlasting fire to go out, then it wouldn't be any more
perpetual than ordinary fire. So then, we have to conclude that everlasting
fire is a supernatural kind of fire that requires no fuel to keep itself going.
Don't ask me to explain how it works because I don't know: it's
supernatural. But what really interests me is that according to Mtt 25:41,
and Rev 20:10; the fire in the reservoir of liquefied flame depicted at
Rev 20:11-15 is perpetual too; and according to Rev 14:11, generates smoke.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear All,

I think that some of the time when people try to explain away the perminent nature of hell is that if it is really eternal that would scare the hell right out of them.

 

[Dan57]

To me, the Lake of Fire is everlasting because those thrown into it are dead forever. The lake itself is not everlasting, but the consequences for those being cast into it are everlasting. The body, spirit, and soul are destroyed forever, meaning everlasting damnation from which there is no return. Its not everlasting torture or punishment, but everlasting destruction.

 

[Foreigner]

The lake itself is not everlasting, but the consequences for those being cast into it are everlasting. The body, spirit, and soul are destroyed forever, meaning everlasting damnation from which there is no return. Its not everlasting torture or punishment, but everlasting destruction.

-- "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" - Matt. 25:41

Lake of fire. Everlasting Fire. Hence, everlasting Lake of Fire.

 

[Dan57]

Everlasting would seem to denote that its a permanent fire for those cast into it. So its everlasting in the sense that its permanent, your literally destroyed forever. The description "everlasting lake of fire" would seem to reflect the purpose of the lake, it being the cause of eternal death. The lake of fire brings everlasting death, therefore its referred to as everlasting figuratively, not literally. The ramifications of its purpose is eternal, those who enter are gone forever. Consider the description of the destruction of Satan in Ezekiel 28:18-19, the fire permanently destroys the soul within, thus bringing everlasting death. Once judgement is over and the wicked are destroyed, the effects of the lake of fire are eternal, but the necessity of the lakes continued existence expires. The torment of those cast into this lake is from the knowledge that its a final end.That's my take on it anyway.

 

[Raeneske]

.
Raeneske, on 01 Jan 2013 - 18:41, said : you'll notice that eternal fire
(everlasting fire, fire and brimstone) stopped burning.

If it were possible for everlasting fire to stop burning, then it wouldn't be any
more everlasting than natural fire.

Raeneske, on 01 Jan 2013 - 18:41, said : I guess the strangest part of
this, and one worth thought, is why people continue to tell others the wages
of sin is not death

Your concept of death is inadequate. To begin with: we humans are all dead
on the hoof. It is our natural-born condition.

†. John 6:53 . . I tell you the truth: unless you eat the flesh of the Son of
Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

†. Eph 2:1-4 . . As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of
the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those
who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying
the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like
the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.

People in hell are "dead" because they went out of here as natural-born
human beings instead of Spirit-born human beings as per John 3:3-8.

†. Rom 8:6-8 . .The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by
the Spirit is life and peace. The sinful mind is hostile to God; it does not
submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature
cannot please God.

Raeneske, on 01 Jan 2013 - 18:41, said : but eternal life in hellfire.

People in hell don't have eternal life: they have creature life; which is a
created kind of life that began in the book of Genesis: whereas eternal life
has never been a created kind life.

†. 1 John 1:2-3 . .The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and
we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has
appeared to us.

People with eternal life are in absolutely no danger of going to hell.

†. John 5:24 . . I assure you, those who listen to my message and believe in
God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their
sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

†. John 10:27-28 . . My sheep recognize my voice; I know them, and they
follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish.

Buen Camino
/

View Dan's Post. He explained "Everlasting Fire" correctly. Again, this is not a fire that burns throughout eternity. Please see Malachi 4:1-3 which shows the wicked become smoke and ASHES. They have therefore died. This teaching on hell is not just, nor does it justify God. Examples:

1) A man dies 2,000 years ago and dies and is burning in hell.
2) A hitler type dies about 100 years ago, and is burning in hell.

The thief burns for about 2000 years longer, than the hitler type, and they both have an eternity to go. How is that just?

Also, it doesn't matter what type of "life" you would like to coin it. Creature life, or eternal life -- It's still life. And God specifically said that those who sin shall die, not live for all eternity.

-- "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" - Matt. 25:41

Lake of fire. Everlasting Fire. Hence, everlasting Lake of Fire.

Everlasting Fire, Eternal Fire, Lake of Fire, Fire and Brimstone are all the same exact terms. Yet Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by this same eternal fire, and yet, Sodom and Gomorrah is not burning today. They are left as an example to those who should act ungodly. The example has been extinguished by eternal fire. So shall the wicked in the end, after they are burned according to their works.

Malachi 4:1-3 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

In the day that God will burn them up, they shall become stubble. They shall be burned with what? The everlasting fire. They shall be burnt up, which does not denote any existence after being burned. There shall be left neither root nor branch. Satan and all his cohorts will be extinguished. Then what? Then they shall become ashes, and we shall tread down upon them. So, as God says, they shall die. He does not say they shall live forever, but die.

 

[Foreigner]

-- I have heard this tripe before.
What is being said is that no matter what sin you commit, you will eventually be burned into nothingness.
Your worst punishment is then....nothing. No pain. No consciousness. No reality. Just the peace of non-existance.

That would be a no.

 

[williemac]

.
williemac, on 31 Dec 2012 - 17:35, said : I challenge you to define the
human spirit in a way that can be understood so that it remains in a
conscious state without the soul. A spirit still needs a mind. The soul (which
comes from the word psyche) is the mind. If a spirit has a mind, it has a
psyche, a soul.

Poor thing. How confused you must be with all that stuff going through your
head at one time. I don't suppose it would ever occur to a conceited person
like yourself that your premises might all be spurious, and actually leading
you away from the truth instead of towards it.

I challenge you to believe what's revealed to you rather than only what makes
sense to you.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

According to Mtt 18:28, eternal fire is fatal to the human body; but
apparently doesn't always remove it from existence because at Isa
66:23-24 there's predicted a museum of sorts where the exhibits
consist of human remains kept as perpetual nourishment for a curious
species of fireproof worm.

"All humanity will come to worship me from week to week and from month
to month. And as they go out, they will see the dead bodies of those who
have rebelled against me. For the worms that devour them will never die,
and the fire that burns them will never go out. All who pass by will view
them with utter horror."

I'm guessing it was that very passage in Isaiah that the Lord had in mind
when he issued the caution and warning located at Mrk 9:47-48.

"If your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the
kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into
geena, where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched."

NOTE : the ancient Greek word geena (gheh'-en-nah) refers to a canyon
valley (a.k.a. the valley of the son of Hinnom, Josh 15:8 et al) situated south
of the old city walls of Jerusalem. In the Lord's day, the valley served as the
ancient city's landfill, where fires were kept burning day and night doing the
double duty of incinerating a constant waste stream of urban refuse and the
carcasses of dead animals and low income citizens. Apparently geena was a
local colloquialism for what we traditional Christians today refer to as hell.

What's interesting about geena is that it's purpose was primarily sanitation;
which tells me that at least one of the reasons why the dead depicted at Rev
20:10-15 are destined be warehoused in the reservoir of liquefied flame is
to prevent the spread of disease.

Buen Camino
/

Hey, Bro. Is this how you respond to a challenge ? Then what are you doing here? It grieves me to see a person be so unkind with one's words towards another brother in Christ. How does that bear any resemblance to the fruit of the Spirit? You have no idea who I am, where I live, or how my relationship with God is going, but somehow you have enough insight to call me conceited? In light of your insulting attitude, which came unprovoked, after this post unless you may find the humilty to apologize, I do not wish to indulge you with any further conversation, other than to advise you to go back and actually read what I wrote concerning other passages which in no uncertain terms insist that not all of humanity will live forever. That would also include the human spirit, which is part of who and what we are, or else it would be a lie.
In the meantime,I suggest you look at Is.66:24, where you will find that the lost have been rendered corpses. So it matters not how long they exist, or whether their worm does not die, nor their fire quenched. A corpse by any other definition is still just a lifeless body. And the person to whom it belonged, unlike those who partake of Jesus, will not live forever, just as Jesus promised (John6:50,51). good evening

 

[Webers_Home]

.
I wish that I had a share of Apple Computer stock for every time I've
encountered somebody online who thinks just because they wear the
Christian label that it somehow gives them the right to call me their brother
when what they really are is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Buen Camino
/

 

[williemac]

.
I wish that I had a share of Apple Computer stock for every time I've
encountered somebody online who thinks just because they wear the
Christian label that it somehow gives them the right to call me their brother
when what they really are is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Buen Camino
/

I have been on several debate sites over the years and have debated with many well spoken and well learned individuals. Several of them have left a wonderful mark on my life and during our discussions, I have to say that the mutual respect we showed one another even in times of disagreement is the one thing I have cherished the most.
One site in paricual was very strict in its site rules, so that if anyone personally attacked another individual, he or she was warned and if it repeated itself, was subsequently banned. There is a reason for this. We are in the public eye on the internet. We are under potential scrutiny from those who do not know the Lord, and therefore out of the utmost respect for the Holy Spirit and the command from Jesus to love one another, there is a rule of thumb that we carry ourselves and represent our Lord Jesus in a way that both honors Him and obeys Him.
"They shall know them by their fruits"
So, I have obviously struck a nerve or two with my input on this subject. Those who respond respectfully and with patience and intelligent rebuttle, I will gladly endulge in discussion with mutual love. For those who rather prefer to hearl insults, just be glad that this site is more tolerant of that kind of behavior than other ones. May the Lord Bless you, Howie

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

I have been on several debate sites over the years and have debated with many well spoken and well learned individuals. Several of them have left a wonderful mark on my life and during our discussions, I have to say that the mutual respect we showed one another even in times of disagreement is the one thing I have cherished the most.
One site in paricual was very strict in its site rules, so that if anyone personally attacked another individual, he or she was warned and if it repeated itself, was subsequently banned. There is a reason for this. We are in the public eye on the internet. We are under potential scrutiny from those who do not know the Lord, and therefore out of the utmost respect for the Holy Spirit and the command from Jesus to love one another, there is a rule of thumb that we carry ourselves and represent our Lord Jesus in a way that both honors Him and obeys Him.
"They shall know them by their fruits"
So, I have obviously struck a nerve or two with my input on this subject. Those who respond respectfully and with patience and intelligent rebuttle, I will gladly endulge in discussion with mutual love. For those who rather prefer to hearl insults, just be glad that this site is more tolerant of that kind of behavior than other ones. May the Lord Bless you, Howie

.

Nothing personal to you willymac ..... and sorry to drift on this thread ...... but i have been (and still am) on a lot of other (non-religious) forums ..... professional and courteous ..... lots of heated debates ...... but the absolute worst are the CHRISTIAN FORUMS !!!!! ...... everybody hides behind fake identities and fake avatars and hate everyone who does not subscribe to thier doctrine.

i find it very puzzeling.

And the majority of the time they cannot even stand on thier own two feet and say even two sentences in thier own words ..... but they can sure copy and paste endless scriptures

Like i said .... I find it puzzeling and it troubles me.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear All,

Unfortunately Christians don't have to be real to be a part of the church these days. Somewhere a ways back it became acceptable to talk the talk but not walk the walk. In the secular world they don't seem to put up with fake or rude people as much. I do agree with Arnie that some of the worst experiences I have had on forums have come from "Christians." The same spirit that allowed leaders of the Catholic church to watch Joan of Arc burn at the stake are still very much present in modern day believers. Thank God for secular laws.

Sincerely,

Justin

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Now if only I had a share of IBM to go along with Apple Computer for every
time somebody online played the "fruit" card, I'd really be in fat city.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Raeneske]

Foreigner,

Especially for those who desire to live, as will the wicked gather round the camp of the Saints? How is that peace? Why do you think there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth? That must be an almost maddening experience for the wicked to go through: To behold you could have had eternal life with the Lord, and now you have forfeited it, you must be burned, and then you must literally die. With consciousness of such an event as that, you don't believe that is eternal torment? Maybe I'n crazy, but I certainly know a state of nonexistance for all eternity is a state of torment I had before I fully believed in God. Call it tripe as you will. The scriptures speak for themselves.

 

[doulosChristou]

I think there's a key point being missed in a lot of the comments here. Part of the reason hell is eternal is because it is the punishment due to crimes against an eternal, holy God. I really think a failure to see this point reveals an inadequate understanding of the doctrine of holiness. But another big part of why hell is eternal is because of the nature of fallen creatures. Satan, his angels, and fallen men themselves, sin because they have a sin nature. We aren't sinful because we make sinful choices. We make sinful choices because it is in our nature (that is, our fallen nature) to do so. Bad trees bear bad fruit. It is our heart's inclination (prior to regeneration) to only follow after sinful tendencies. Thus, when people go to hell, they don't suddenly stop sinning. They keep sinning. And they keep sinning. And they will never stop. They will always hate God and scream out at Him in hatred. The Scriptures define sin not just as an unfortunate victimizing tendency that its subjects are simply unaware of, but as an active rebellion and hatred toward God (e.g. Rom. 8:7-8). Sin is characterized by the fundamental desire to replace God. Sinners hate God. They are hell bent (no pun intended) on continuing in that hatred, no matter what, because that is their tendency. That is the natural desire of their hearts. Remember Pharaoh? Not even 10 plagues, the destruction of his whole empire, and the death of his own son, could convince him to stop rebelling against God. Men will continue in their sin until God draws them out of it (which He is under no obligation to do). So when men go to hell, they aren't suddenly repentant of their sins when they begin to undergo that torment. They will continue to scream out in hatred against God all the more, and so the punishment will continue to come.

But also returning to my inititial statement, you have to consider, that even if men in hell were repentant after tasting that torment, to suggest that the torment could end at some point would be to suggest that there is a point in time where man can atone for his own sins, if he just suffers enough. But this would significantly devalue Christ's atonement, if not render it completely unnecessary. The reason Christ had to die was because only God in the flesh is capable of bearing the weight of an infinite punishment. This is also why hell must be eternal. Because to sin against an infinite, holy God is to bear an infinite guilt, and so if infinite God Himself does not bear that guilt for a man, then the only thing that can appease God's judgment at that point is a punishment that does not end.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

I often wonder how many christians would be involved on forums if they had to use their full name.

I bet very few would.

That alone tells me they are spinless and afraid to stand behind what they beleive or preach

But they are not afraid to hide behind a fake avatar and proclaim they are ready to take on The Antichrist and the devil himself.

 

[williemac]

.
Now if only I had a share of IBM to go along with Apple Computer for every
time somebody online played the "fruit" card, I'd really be in fat city.

Buen Camino
/

It comes as no surprise that you have seen the "friuit" card so often. This is all just a game, is it? You come on these sites just to assasinate character? Knock yourself out, Brother. Hey, play your 'cards' right and you might wind up in Dell. Lord's blessings, Howie

 

[Raeneske]

I think there's a key point being missed in a lot of the comments here. Part of the reason hell is eternal is because it is the punishment due to crimes against an eternal, holy God. I really think a failure to see this point reveals an inadequate understanding of the doctrine of holiness. But another big part of why hell is eternal is because of the nature of fallen creatures. Satan, his angels, and fallen men themselves, sin because they have a sin nature. We aren't sinful because we make sinful choices. We make sinful choices because it is in our nature (that is, our fallen nature) to do so. Bad trees bear bad fruit. It is our heart's inclination (prior to regeneration) to only follow after sinful tendencies. Thus, when people go to hell, they don't suddenly stop sinning. They keep sinning. And they keep sinning. And they will never stop. They will always hate God and scream out at Him in hatred. The Scriptures define sin not just as an unfortunate victimizing tendency that its subjects are simply unaware of, but as an active rebellion and hatred toward God (e.g. Rom. 8:7-8). Sin is characterized by the fundamental desire to replace God. Sinners hate God. They are hell bent (no pun intended) on continuing in that hatred, no matter what, because that is their tendency. That is the natural desire of their hearts. Remember Pharaoh? Not even 10 plagues, the destruction of his whole empire, and the death of his own son, could convince him to stop rebelling against God. Men will continue in their sin until God draws them out of it (which He is under no obligation to do). So when men go to hell, they aren't suddenly repentant of their sins when they begin to undergo that torment. They will continue to scream out in hatred against God all the more, and so the punishment will continue to come.

But also returning to my inititial statement, you have to consider, that even if men in hell were repentant after tasting that torment, to suggest that the torment could end at some point would be to suggest that there is a point in time where man can atone for his own sins, if he just suffers enough. But this would significantly devalue Christ's atonement, if not render it completely unnecessary. The reason Christ had to die was because only God in the flesh is capable of bearing the weight of an infinite punishment. This is also why hell must be eternal. Because to sin against an infinite, holy God is to bear an infinite guilt, and so if infinite God Himself does not bear that guilt for a man, then the only thing that can appease God's judgment at that point is a punishment that does not end.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The opposite of life is death, or eternal life in fire? Death, correct? So then, if we choose the opposite of evil, which is righteousness, we are rewarded with Eternal Life through Jesus Christ our Lord, yes? So then, if we reject the Lord, would we not receive the opposite? Would we not receive death? Yes, we would receive death. Infinite Life with God, or infinite death -- a punishment with NO END. They burn according to their works and then they die, and become ashes underneath the soles of our feet.

Malachi 4:1-3 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

Matthew 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Notice the similarities. And noticed that with the unquenchable fire (which is claimed to burn for all eternity), they shall be burnt up. They shall become ashes underneath the soles of our feet.

 

[Rex]

15 Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”


I've yet to figure out just when He changed his mind