Why is Hell Eternal?

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear All,

I believe that hell is eternal because it was made before this creation and exists outside of it. It was created to be a punishment for Lucifer and those angels that followed him in the great rebellion. Therefore, even when this cosmos is destroyed it will still exist because it is made of the stuff of eternity. Moreover it was created to punish eternal beings.

I believe the doctrine of hell is one of the most fundament tenants of the Christian faith and should not be shied away from because we fear making the lost uncomfortable. Hell is what we are being saved from. The Salvation God provides through His son is so great because the danger of hell is so horrible and permanent.

When it says a lake of fire we should assume that it is a literal lake of fire. When is says eternal it means without end. When is says that there is no escape we need to agree with God there is no escape. Hell was only made for Lucifer and his fallen angels but if the lost or even those who have once believed insist of following him then they will suffer Satan's same fate...forever.

 

[Pelaides]

I can tell you one thing.When the body dies the soul lives on.The only way to destroy a soul or a spirit,is with FIRE.Wether hell is eternal or not ,i cant tell you,but i do know hell is real.

 

[MTPockets]

Dear All,

I believe that hell is eternal because it was made before this creation and exists outside of it. It was created to be a punishment for Lucifer and those angels that followed him in the great rebellion. Therefore, even when this cosmos is destroyed it will still exist because it is made of the stuff of eternity. Moreover it was created to punish eternal beings.

I believe the doctrine of hell is one of the most fundament tenants of the Christian faith and should not be shied away from because we fear making the lost uncomfortable. Hell is what we are being saved from. The Salvation God provides through His son is so great because the danger of hell is so horrible and permanent.

When it says a lake of fire we should assume that it is a literal lake of fire. When is says eternal it means without end. When is says that there is no escape we need to agree with God there is no escape. Hell was only made for Lucifer and his fallen angels but if the lost or even those who have once believed insist of following him then they will suffer Satan's same fate...forever.

Hi! 'Justin Mangonel'
I jus' wanted to add that to live is to be active.
Every being (whether visible or invisible) possesses the intrinsic urgency to be active. For instance, we can see this regarding man in Genesis 1:26 . Right from his very beginnings, man was given the task to remain active.
When an unrepentant individual is dragged by evil powers into the eternal darkness, (hell), he loses the ability to remain active.
When an evil spirit is cast out of an individual, that spirit is compelled to enter the lake of fire. The torment of this evil spirit is that it remains inactive in that eternal situation. This is why the evil powers cried out to Jesus saying, "Art thou come hither to torment us before the time?". In other words, are you going to send us to the eternal tormet of inactivity ... death?

 

[Raeneske]

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

1 Timothy 6:16-17 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Job 7:9 As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more.

James 4:14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

God vs. Satan. Who is telling the truth here? Shall you only partially die, or will you literally die?

Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

"Ye shall not surely die... Ye shall be as God's."

God only has eternal life, not the creature.

Psalm 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Psalm 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

He shall consume into smoke, and what else?

Malachi 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

And let's not forget, all this is to happen in our presence, and in Jesus's and the Holy Angels.

Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Only someone satanic in cruelty would burn someone for all eternity, leaving them writhing in agony. Judged according to their works, are they not? So, how can someone who stole a piece of bread, and died in the process of doing it 2000 years ago, be burning for eternity --- now --- and someone like Hitler died about 100 years ago --- and is burning for eternity, now --- be just judged: How is that just? The thief has been burning 2,000 years longer AND the thief still has an eternity to go. Is 45 years of sin, though absolutely dreadful and horrendous sin is, how does 45 years of sin warrant eternal agony?

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Does this mean they will be burning for all eternity?

Leviticus 10:15 The heave shoulder and the wave breast shall they bring with the offerings made by fire of the fat, to wave it for a wave offering before the LORD; and it shall be thine, and thy sons' with thee, by a statute for ever; as the LORD hath commanded.

Imagine an Israelite becoming a Christian, and stating that because the Lord said they must do this forever, he continues to do offerings and such. "But, the Lord said for ever". For ever is relevant to the event, and the circumstances: It does not always mean "for all eternity".

Deuteronomy 15:17 Then thou shalt take an aul, and thrust it through his ear unto the door, and he shall be thy servant for ever. And also unto thy maidservant thou shalt do likewise.

This is relevant to the time, relevant to the event that is taking place. So, after a while, it certainly will seem like the wicked have been burning "for ever" but that is just an expression. Again, it does not always mean for eternity, but it is relevant to the event taking place.

John 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O Lord my God.

He was down in the belly of the whale for three days --- but it certainly wasn't forever, though I'm sure it felt like "for ever" to him. So those that burn, it will seem like, "forever". While burning according to their works, the fire will not be quenched, because they have not paid there deeds, therefore they do not die. However, once they do die, they shall be stubble. They shall be as the chaff, which once it's burned up, would have no reason to burn anymore. It burns depending on it's length, and then it becomes ashes. So, last question. What shall the wicked become on the day the burns as an over? Shall they burn for eternity, or shall they become ashes, and cease to exist?

Malachi 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

 

[teamventure]

i like how you go with the question; "does this mean they will burn for all eternity?"
kind of like when the serpent said, "did God really say?"
if we can doubt the words when can be swayed into deception.

here's what the Bible says about forever:

Eternal - without end

Eternal Damnation

"Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen," (1 Tim. 1:17).
". . . To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever" (Rev. 5:13).


"And a second time they said, "Hallelujah! Her smoke rises up forever and ever" (Rev. 19:3).
"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever," (Rev. 20:10).


so if hell isn't forever then what about heaven and what about our Lord.
the Bible uses the same terms to describe both as forever and ever.

 

[Groundzero]

Dear All,

I believe that hell is eternal because it was made before this creation and exists outside of it. It was created to be a punishment for Lucifer and those angels that followed him in the great rebellion. Therefore, even when this cosmos is destroyed it will still exist because it is made of the stuff of eternity. Moreover it was created to punish eternal beings.

I believe the doctrine of hell is one of the most fundament tenants of the Christian faith and should not be shied away from because we fear making the lost uncomfortable. Hell is what we are being saved from. The Salvation God provides through His son is so great because the danger of hell is so horrible and permanent.

When it says a lake of fire we should assume that it is a literal lake of fire. When is says eternal it means without end. When is says that there is no escape we need to agree with God there is no escape. Hell was only made for Lucifer and his fallen angels but if the lost or even those who have once believed insist of following him then they will suffer Satan's same fate...forever.

Agree with you on this I think. Something to note also, is that Jesus talked quite a bit about hell. I would think that's it's very real.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear All,

The lake of fire is almost unimaginable. We can't stand a hot fire for even a second and therefore to imagine burring in a lake of fire fore eternity seems just too harsh for us.

We know God is just and so the question we might want to ask ourselves is "how is the lake of fire just?" What is the crime that fits this terrible punishment? It think when we get that figured out it will really enlighten our understanding of a great many things in God.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Justin Mangonel, on 30 Dec 2012 - 22:55, said : "how is the lake of fire
just?" What is the crime that fits this terrible punishment?

Figuring out why the second death is permanent is easy enough. It's
because there's only one resurrection allotted per person (Dan 12:2, John
5:29). But I don't know of anyone yet to figure out why the lake of fire is
permanent. My guess is that since the dignity of God is off the scale, then
punishment for non-compliance with His wishes has to match it; viz: off the
scale too.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Raeneske]

Team Adventure,

As I said, forever is relative depending on the event. I have shown you cases where it is relative. There are cases where forever is eternal, as you have seen. There remains therefore discernment for the remaining. If you still object, please look at my examples and explain to me, how a man burning for eternity who died 2000 years ago, and a man who died recently and was aHitler type, died around our time--- How is that just? They both burn for eternity, yet the thief 2,000 years longer? That clearly is very unjust.

Also, please do a study on the definition of "Eternal Fire". Hint: Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by that same eternal fire, which people claim burns for all eternity.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear W,

Those were some good thoughts.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[williemac]

This subject has come around before. There are no easy answers as to why the Lake of Fire is forever. It was, however, created for the species of angels who have rebelled against God. There are only three beings who are specifically said to be in torment day and night forever. These three are not human. It might be that angels are eternal and immortal.

However, the human soul is not immortal. It can die. If it cannot die, then God cannot kill the soul of man. We have a little issue with Math.10:28, if that is the case. Jesus, in that passage advised to not fear the one who can kill the body but cannot kill the soul.

Think about this for a moment. He is advising them to not fear God? I hardly think so. He in fact told them to actually fear God. who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell. However, the word that is translated "hell" in that verse is not 'hades', but rather Gehenna. That place was a type of garbage dump as the world has seen in our society and still sees in others, where refuse is taken to be burned and destroyed. So, Gehenna is a reference to the Lake of Fire, as scholars agree.

So in that passage we have two cases of death. In the first one, if a man should take another man's life, the body dies but not the soul. We can easily understand what happens to a body that dies. It ceases to be alive. Most of us have seen a corpse. It is a lifeless body. But what happened to the soul? In the case of the lost, it ends up in Hades, in torment. This is not the same as torture. In the story of the rich man and Lazerus, the rich man was in torment, but did not feel pain from the fire as a physical being would feel. Instead he felt thirst. He was dry.

But this is not the final state of the lost. They will be judged on the great white throne at the end of the 1000 yr. reign of Christ, and be cast into the lake of fire, where both body and soul will die (be destroyed). This is why it is called the second death. Death is the cessation of life, no matter what kind of twist many want to put on that word.

Do we have other biblical proof of this? Yes we do. In John 6:50, 51, Jesus talked of the fate of those who partake of His flesh. He said that they would live forever and not die. So, no matter what definition one wants to put on the word "die" or "death", from that passage it cannot mean to live forever. That designation only applies to the one alternative. Not both. One will either live forever or he will not live forever. The wording is crystal clear. This is also the same for John 3:16, where we see that only one of the two possiblilities is everlasting life. Not both.

Furthermore, in Gen.3:22, God originally, after the fall of man, removed their access to the tree of life, and as the verse explains..."lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever. Man was spared the awful fate of living forever in his fallen state. Why else would God have forbid them access?

As for smoke that rises up forever....so what? That is smoke's issue. Seriously, though, it probably signifies the permanency of the judgment of death. Death is an eternal punishment. Therefore the worm does not die, nor the fire quenched. If we stretch this to also refer to the actual human not dying, then I refer us back to the passages mentioned. The conclusion of forever conscious human torment, a mere assumption by association, denies what the bible says elsewhere. Therefore it is a false conclusion. To which I lovingly plead and exhort to the church a large.."Let it go" respectfully, Howie

 

[Webers_Home]

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Raeneske, on 31 Dec 2012 - 11:41, said : do a study on the definition of
"Eternal Fire". Hint: Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by that same
eternal fire, which people claim burns for all eternity.

One of eternal fire's interesting characteristics is that is doesn't need fuel
to keep going; hence it never goes out. So when the fire and brimstone from
heaven completed destroying those cities, God had to gather it all up because
He couldn't just leave that stuff lying around out there as a permanent hazard.
And besides, according to Gen 19:28 eternal fire causes a tremendous amount
of air pollution. Nobody would be able to live down in that region ever again
without some sort of air filtration equipment had not God cleaned up after Himself.

Buen Camino
/

 

[teamventure]

Team Adventure,

As I said, forever is relative depending on the event. I have shown you cases where it is relative. There are cases where forever is eternal, as you have seen. There remains therefore discernment for the remaining. If you still object, please look at my examples and explain to me, how a man burning for eternity who died 2000 years ago, and a man who died recently and was aHitler type, died around our time--- How is that just? They both burn for eternity, yet the thief 2,000 years longer? That clearly is very unjust.

Also, please do a study on the definition of "Eternal Fire". Hint: Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by that same eternal fire, which people claim burns for all eternity.

well i hope you're right. it's hard to think of a place like hell as being eternal but i also don't want to question Gods judgements ect. maybe there's more to it then i was reading but it will be an intersting discovery.
one answer to hell being eternal for a lesser evil person is the more evil person would have a worse hell.

 

[Rex]

.
Raeneske, on 31 Dec 2012 - 11:41, said : do a study on the definition of
"Eternal Fire". Hint: Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by that same
eternal fire, which people claim burns for all eternity.

One of the interesting characteristics about eternal fire is that is doesn't
need fuel to keep going; hence it never goes out. So when the fire and
brimstone from heaven completed destroying those cities, God had to gather
it all up because He couldn't just leave that stuff lying around out there as a
permanent hazard. And besides, according to Gen 19:28 eternal fire causes
a tremendous amount of air pollution. Nobody would be able to live down in
that region ever again without some sort of air filtration equipment had not
God cleaned up after Himself.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Human life consists of body, soul, and spirit. (1Ths 5:23, Heb 4:12)

There's evidence that God intends to terminate human bodies and human
souls in geena (Mtt 18:28) but I have yet to find evidence of His intentions
to terminate human spirits. In point of fact, the Devil is spirit and John saw
him existing in the reservoir of liquefied flame depicted at Rev 20:10.

There are people who insist that human beings don't exist as spirits in the
afterlife; but according to Heb 12:23 and 1Pet 3:18-20 they do.

Buen Camino
/

 

[williemac]

.
Human life consists of body, soul, and spirit. (1Ths 5:23, Heb 4:12)

There's evidence that God intends to terminate human bodies and human
souls in geena (Mtt 18:28) but I have yet to find evidence of His intentions
to terminate human spirits. In point of fact, the Devil is spirit and John saw
him existing in the reservoir of liquefied flame depicted at Rev 20:10.

There are people who insist that human beings don't exist as spirits in the
afterlife; but according to Heb 12:23 and 1Pet 3:18-20 they do.

Buen Camino
/

The scriptures you shared leave no insight as to the duration of these spirits in the afterlife. As I pointed out and agree, there is an afterlife for the lost, in a place called Hades. But it is not permanent. There is a second death in a place known as the Lake of Fire. As well, at least one passage I shared (post # 11) says that only those who partake of Jesus will live forever. (John6:50,51). If you disagree, then what is your explanation of this passage? Furthermore, I challenge you to define the human spirit in a way that can be understood so that it remains in a conscious state without the soul. A spirit still needs a mind. The soul (which comes from the word psyche) is the mind. If a spirit has a mind, it has a psyche, a soul.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
williemac, on 31 Dec 2012 - 17:35, said : I challenge you to define the
human spirit in a way that can be understood so that it remains in a
conscious state without the soul. A spirit still needs a mind. The soul (which
comes from the word psyche) is the mind. If a spirit has a mind, it has a
psyche, a soul.

Poor thing. How confused you must be with all that stuff going through your
head at one time. I don't suppose it would ever occur to a conceited person
like yourself that your premises might all be spurious, and actually leading
you away from the truth instead of towards it.

I challenge you to believe what's revealed to you rather than only what makes
sense to you.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

According to Mtt 18:28, eternal fire is fatal to the human body; but
apparently doesn't always remove it from existence because at Isa
66:23-24 there's predicted a museum of sorts where the exhibits
consist of human remains kept as perpetual nourishment for a curious
species of fireproof worm.

"All humanity will come to worship me from week to week and from month
to month. And as they go out, they will see the dead bodies of those who
have rebelled against me. For the worms that devour them will never die,
and the fire that burns them will never go out. All who pass by will view
them with utter horror."

I'm guessing it was that very passage in Isaiah that the Lord had in mind
when he issued the caution and warning located at Mrk 9:47-48.

"If your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the
kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into
geena, where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched."

NOTE : the ancient Greek word geena (gheh'-en-nah) refers to a canyon
valley (a.k.a. the valley of the son of Hinnom, Josh 15:8 et al) situated south
of the old city walls of Jerusalem. In the Lord's day, the valley served as the
ancient city's landfill, where fires were kept burning day and night doing the
double duty of incinerating a constant waste stream of urban refuse and the
carcasses of dead animals and low income citizens. Apparently geena was a
local colloquialism for what we traditional Christians today refer to as hell.

What's interesting about geena is that it's purpose was primarily sanitation;
which tells me that at least one of the reasons why the dead depicted at Rev
20:10-15 are destined be warehoused in the reservoir of liquefied flame is
to prevent the spread of disease.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Raeneske]

.
Raeneske, on 31 Dec 2012 - 11:41, said : do a study on the definition of
"Eternal Fire". Hint: Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by that same
eternal fire, which people claim burns for all eternity.

One of eternal fire's interesting characteristics is that is doesn't need fuel
to keep going; hence it never goes out. So when the fire and brimstone from
heaven completed destroying those cities, God had to gather it all up because
He couldn't just leave that stuff lying around out there as a permanent hazard.
And besides, according to Gen 19:28 eternal fire causes a tremendous amount
of air pollution. Nobody would be able to live down in that region ever again
without some sort of air filtration equipment had not God cleaned up after Himself.

Buen Camino
/

Genesis 19:28-29 And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace. And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt.

Okay, so relooking at this comment you made, is it serious?

Also, you'll notice that eternal fire (everlasting fire, fire and brimstone) stopped burning. But of course, not until after the city was destroyed. The same way that the hellfire upon the victims which turn to ash (Malachi 4:1-3) will not cease until after they have burned according to their works.

I guess the strangest part of this, and one worth thought, is why people continue to tell others the wages of sin is not death, but eternal life in hellfire. Hell being grave (definition of hell). So grave-fire really, fire that burns you and will in fact send you to the grave. Then the grave itself will be destroyed. There can be no chance for existing. And if anyone ever had the bouts of paranoia I had in my previous years in my life -- eternal non-existence is torment.

 

[KingJ]

Why is hell eternal?

Hell is eternal because our decision from free will to accept or reject Jesus is binding. Just as heaven is eternal for the saints who accept Jesus.

Jesus clearly says eternal punishment (Matt 25:46). The chief issue is on suffering in hell! Is suffering eternal? The fallen angels are not currently suffering but they are banished. I see eternal punishment as eternal banishment with temporal suffering according to a sentence at judgement day.

If God were to annihilate / completely destroy or remove any from hell after a while of suffering and put them in heaven, He would be over-riding their free will to reject Him. God is fair and just. If we can judge criminals and dish out differing sentences, how much more God?

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Raeneske, on 01 Jan 2013 - 18:41, said : you'll notice that eternal fire
(everlasting fire, fire and brimstone) stopped burning.

If it were possible for everlasting fire to stop burning, then it wouldn't be any
more everlasting than natural fire.

Raeneske, on 01 Jan 2013 - 18:41, said : I guess the strangest part of
this, and one worth thought, is why people continue to tell others the wages
of sin is not death

Your concept of death is inadequate. To begin with: we humans are all dead
on the hoof. It is our natural-born condition.

†. John 6:53 . . I tell you the truth: unless you eat the flesh of the Son of
Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

†. Eph 2:1-4 . . As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of
the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those
who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying
the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like
the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.

People in hell are "dead" because they went out of here as natural-born
human beings instead of Spirit-born human beings as per John 3:3-8.

†. Rom 8:6-8 . .The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by
the Spirit is life and peace. The sinful mind is hostile to God; it does not
submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature
cannot please God.

Raeneske, on 01 Jan 2013 - 18:41, said : but eternal life in hellfire.

People in hell don't have eternal life: they have creature life; which is a
created kind of life that began in the book of Genesis: whereas eternal life
has never been a created kind life.

†. 1 John 1:2-3 . .The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and
we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has
appeared to us.

People with eternal life are in absolutely no danger of going to hell.

†. John 5:24 . . I assure you, those who listen to my message and believe in
God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their
sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

†. John 10:27-28 . . My sheep recognize my voice; I know them, and they
follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish.

Buen Camino
/