Jews = religion, not race.
“And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people [blood relatives]; he hath broken my covenant.” (Genesis 17:14)
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
“And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people [blood relatives]; he hath broken my covenant.” (Genesis 17:14)
See, we are going back down the same path already taken with your post (# 91) and my responses. Why? Because it was never off topic.
"His people" were the Jews. The descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. (Gen. 17:21)
Stranger
“And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king’s commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.” (Esther 8:17)
These would be proselytes. This doesn't make the Jew who was of the 12 tribes not a Jew. Nor does it take away the need for the Jews to be from the 12 tribes.
Stranger
Jew = religion. Were Rahab and Ruth Jews? Moses' wife? The mixed multitude, all circumcised, that came out from Egypt?
To say Jew equals religion is not the point. Of course religion surrounds the Jews as God chose them from whom would come the one true religion. But the people He chose to impart this religion, are a distinct people from Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the 12 sons (tribes). Physically connected.
Yes there are proselytes. Rahab and Ruth would have been. As Moses wife also. Whether the mixed multitude were circumcised, I don't know. But it really doesn't matter. As I said, proselytes.
Stranger
Jews are a religion, not race. When God gave Abraham orders to circumcise his household, Ishmael was his only blood relative in the matter. The rest, 300+ and their families made up Abraham's Covenant seed. And in Isaac, Christ alone was the seed called forth. And Jesus IS Israel today, according to Matthew and Paul, along with those who believe in him. John says the Jews who rejected him are Antichrists. These certainly are not God's chosen people.
What you are missing is that they added in their DNA into what being a Jew is...through their religion. Everyone coming out of Egypt was circumcised at Gilgal. All manner of slaves...Ethiopians among them...came out od Egypt with the Israelites. Moses married an Ethiopian lady....a Cushite...much to the dismay of Miriam.
And each of these were grafted in, as it were, to the tribe they married into.
So then to deny a physical DNA entrance into a tribe of Israel is silly. But what is worse than that is putting DNA above God's will. The first is ignorance....but the second is evil.
God can graft in who He wants into whatever tribe He wants. And He does.
So then the 12 tribes of Israel contain people from every other tribe, nation and tongue....being grafted in by the power of God. That may offend the delicate sensibilities of some people...but what of it?
Yes, you keep saying that.
It doesn't matter how many are circumcised outside of Israel. If they do it for the right reasons then they are proselytes to Israel's faith. If they don't, then they are just circumcised heathern. None of this discounts the physical distinction of the Jewish people. They are from the 12 tribes of Israel.
Yes, in Isaac is the seed called. Which means those that are born physically as Jews, from the 12 tribes, must also be a child of promise to make up the true Israel. This distinguishes the 'children of promise' and the 'children of the flesh'. (Rom. 9:8-9) Just because there are 'children of promise' doesn't discount the physical distinction of the Jewish people.
Jesus is not Israel. He was and is of Israel. He is the King of Israel. Of course there are many unbelieving Jews today. As there have been for a long time. That doesn't make Israel any less a chosen physical people from the 12 tribes of Jacob. The true Israel is both made up of Jews from the 12 tribes who are also children of promise.
Stranger
Chapter and verse of who was circumcised.
There is no grafting into Israel. They would be proselytes to the Jews faith. The only grafting would be into the Abrahamic Covenant. It doesn't matter if there are proselytes in Israel. Israel still maintains her physical identity from the 12 tribes of Israel.
The 12 tribes of Israel are and always will be descendants from the 12 sons of Jacob.
Stranger
Do you realize that these descendants married other people? Outside their DNA ancestry?
or are you stuck on an idea you can't get your mind around?
Do you realize that the 10 northern tribes (this is very tiring) were sent into all the nations and have spread their DNA everywhere...being so diluted as to be untraceable after 3,000 years or so.
Do a study on how DNA gets spread around and how everyone is interrelated in some way if you go back far enough....
...and forget your argument that has no basis in reality....
Don't worry, God can keep track of all DNA.
Go ahead and believe your dna. I will believe God.
Stranger
You are the one with a DNA fixation. Fix your eyes on God not the flesh. God is Spirit and does things with spiritual concerns...not carnal. You are reading your own bias into God. Are you sure you are not in the "organization?" The guys with the sheets and pointy hats? The ones who obsess over DNA and other fleshly concerns?
I'm not concerned with dna at all. My eyes are fixed on God. I believe what He says.
What organization? Don't still be scared. If your scared, say your scared.
Stranger
Why do you project your fears on others. I'm trying to keep your secret safe. You are just not used to politeness...
Your racist views are obscuring the truth about God. Are you afraid of NOT being racist because you think God is racist?
But LOVE...that icky word you hate so much...casts OUT all fear. I have no fears at all.
Embrace love...learn about Jesus...and stop being a bigot. I'm saying this in as a polite way as I think you can relate to.
I'm not worried about being called a racist.
Your politeness is overwhelming. But your just using it to hide your fear.
I don't have any fears. What secret are you talking about. Go ahead and say it, you brought it up. If your scared, say your scared. If your scared don't bring it up. Don't be a pretender.
Stranger
So you are comfortable with being a racist.
Can a Christian be a racist? Can a racist be a Christian?
People tend to project their own biases on God.
For instance...the KKK claim to be Christian.
They don't hate other "kinds" of people ...but believe they should stick to their own kind. They divide the human race into outward carnal divisions they call races...which is not the case.
i leave it to you, Stranger, to identify with what I'm describing here. This is not an accusation....as you will see racism as something good not evil.
But we want to be clear where you get your biases from.
When these kind of views are brought over to the bible, it does great violence to the truth.
You know little about the KKK if you think my views of Israel represent their views. They do not. Your effort to want to identify me with the KKK because I believe what God says about Israel is nothing more than you playing the race card. The KKK would be more inclined to agree with your opinion of Israel. My oh my.
Maybe I should have played the bigot race card.
Stranger
I'm not as informed about the kkk as yourself. I concede that.
I think what you are trying to get at is that you have a racist view concerning Gentiles. IOW... a Jewish racist worldview. A Zionist agenda. A racism of a different stripe. But racist nevertheless. People are like that. But God is not. God is love....not sectarian and bigoted.
It is the Jews who commit the sin of seeing Judaism as a race apart....and not just a religion. So the source of the evil of keeping God's people separate comes from the Jews, first...but also VERY misguided Gentiles.
So you are either Jewish or a Zionist patsy.
I'm not as informed about the kkk as yourself. I concede that.
I think what you are trying to get at is that you have a racist view concerning Gentiles. IOW... a Jewish racist worldview. A Zionist agenda. A racism of a different stripe. But racist nevertheless. People are like that. But God is not. God is love....not sectarian and bigoted.
It is the Jews who commit the sin of seeing Judaism as a race apart....and not just a religion. So the source of the evil of keeping God's people separate comes from the Jews, first...but also VERY misguided Gentiles.
So you are either Jewish or a Zionist patsy.
Well, if you want to call me a racist because I believe what God says about Israel and the Jews, then go ahead. The Bible clearly teaches that God has chosen Israel and He will never forsake her, and that she will one day be the leading nation of the world from where Jesus Christ will rule and reign for 1000 years. If that is racism, blame God, not me.
Stranger
Similar threads
