Why John 6:37 is grossly misunderstood and misapplied

[charity]

Those who believe in so-called *Unconditional Election* (from the five Points of Calvinism) interpret John 6:37 as though it means that God the Father chooses (predestines and elects) some for salvation (which would also mean that He elects some for damnation). But the context makes it clear that the meaning is THE EXACT OPPOSITE of what is assumed. The context of this verse is as below (in the KJV)

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Therefore we need to start with verse 40, and what it says is that (a) everyone is given the opportunity to see the Son and believe on Him (through the Gospel), (b) those who believe on Him will receive the gift of everlasting life, and (c) those who receive everlasting life will be resurrected and receive immortal, glorified bodies.

* I agree, @Enoch111,
The wording of verse 40 is interesting isn't it? For it tells us exactly when those who believe on God's Own Beloved Son, will be resurrected: - 'at the last day'. How wonderful, that we, like David can say,

'As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness:
I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with Thy likeness.'
(Psalm 17:15)

* ... and like Job:-

'So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more,
they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
O that Thou wouldest hide me in the grave,
that Thou wouldest keep me secret, until Thy wrath be past,
that Thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
If a man die, shall he live again?
all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee:
Thou wilt have a desire to the work of Thine hands.'
(Job 14:12-15)

'For I know that my redeemer liveth,
and that He shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
And though after my skin worms destroy this body,
yet in my flesh shall I see God:
Whom I shall see for myself,
and mine eyes shall behold, and not another;
though my reins be consumed within me.'
(Job 19:25-27)

Praise God!

Then we go to verse 38, and see that Christ came to do the will of the Father, not His own will. But what was the will of the Father? For that we need to go to John 3:17, which tells us that the will of the Father was the salvation of THE WHOLE WORLD: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. And this is the EXACT OPPOSITE of Unconditional Election.

So now we come to verse 37, which tells us that God draws all men to Christ, but only those who believe are the ones who are given to Him, and these are the ones who will come to Him, and whom He will not cast out.

Scripture also tells us that just as the Father draws men to Christ through the Gospel, the Son does the same, and so does the Holy Spirit. In other words the triune Godhead acts in concert with the Gospel to bring about the salvation of sinners. But only those who obey the Gospel, and respond with repentance and faith, will be saved and eternally secure, to be raised up on the *Last Day*

'But these are written,
that ye might believe
that Jesus is the Christ,
the Son of God;
and that believing
ye might have life
through His Name.'
(John 20:31)

'And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness,
even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in Him should not perish,
but have eternal life.'
(John 3:14)

Praise His Holy Name !

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Dave L]

No, I do not make God into a Monster because I do not hold to the Calvinistic view of God, a god who puts people in hell over their sins and when they do what it takes to be saved, he still rejects them, saying, "you weren't really one of my elect, so it doesn't matter that you called on my name for salvation."

The God I believe in is no Monster: those who reject Him from my pov go to hell not because He chose that for them against their will, but because they chose to go their against His.

The God I know and serve is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

"Repent" is not a valid word in Calvinism. Probably the reason why abject sinners like that doctrine so much.

Here is what semi-pelagianism does to God. It depicts him as a bully who will forever torture any who do not "say uncle" by accepting his terms of salvation. And they depict him as a conniver who bribes people offering forever pleasures if they bend to his way.

This is not the God of the bible who mercifully saves those who cannot "say uncle" or "accept bribes".

 

[Mjh29]

I did tell you...

I will post the link to the post shortly.

Why John 6:37 is grossly misunderstood and misapplied

And these verses directly contradict your "my choice" belief.

You Say:
~ I must attain faith, but somehow it is the only exception to the 'works' rule as it is somehow not a work, although by definition it must be

The Verse says
~ Faith is but a tool God uses by His grace to save sinner from themselves, and it is 100% his gift and not your choice.

How does this justify your belief again?

 

[justbyfaith]

And these verses directly contradict your "my choice" belief.

You Say:
~ I must attain faith, but somehow it is the only exception to the 'works' rule as it is somehow not a work, although by definition it must be

The Verse says
~ Faith is but a tool God uses by His grace to save sinner from themselves, and it is 100% his gift and not your choice.

How does this justify your belief again?

Grace is the gift that we receive through faith.

 

[Dave L]

Grace is the gift that we receive through faith.

Faith is the gift we receive through grace.

 

[Mjh29]

Faith is the gift we receive through grace.

You beat me by, like, a half a word lol

 

[justbyfaith]

Eph 2:8, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9, Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Are you going to go by a faulty dictionary definition or are you going to go by the Bible?

Also, faith is a response that does not really normally require mental or physical effort. It is simply how you respond to the preaching of God's word. We don't "muster up faith". We either believe in Him or we don't.

Rom 10:17, So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Note that according to the following definition:

work
noun

• 1.activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result

So explain to me how choosing to have faith does not fit the criteria of a work?

The definition I gave for faith above (in the first quote) enables faith to not be a work.

Read and understand.

 

[Jun2u]

Being drawn by the Father does not guarantee salvation; it enables a man to make the decision to receive Christ.

False! When the Father draws you to Jesus you can rest assured you will be saved and your decision has nothing to do with your conversion. This is known as Irresistible Grace.

The Father draws everyone to Christ at specific moments in their life; at which time they are called upon to make a choice, and at which time God helps the person to make that choice:

False again! The Father does not draw everyone but only those He elected, chosen, named, and predestined to salvation before the foundation of the world.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Dave L]

Note that according to the following definition:



The definition I gave for faith above (in the first quote) enables faith to not be a work.

Read and understand.

You turn the gospel into law and salvation by grace into works.

 

[Mjh29]

Note that according to the following definition:



The definition I gave for faith above (in the first quote) enables faith to not be a work.

Read and understand.

Ok, so now we are redefining our terms. When we first began, you said it was a choice; now it is a response. Which is it? A choice or a response?

~ If it is a choice, then you have saved yourself by choosing correctly
Works righteousness
~ If it is a response, then it is based on whatever you responded to; the pastor's words. Therefore, if you are responding to the pastors words, and it is not the work of the Spirit changing you, you are saved by the actions of another human.
Works righteousness

So, you believe in works righteousness?

 

[justbyfaith]

False! When the Father draws you to Jesus you can rest assured you will be saved and your decision has nothing to do with your conversion. This is known as Irresistible Grace.

This is a doctrine of Calvinism not necessarily the Bible. I actually do believe that grace is irresisitible, in that love never fails because of perseverance.

However, it is possible to resist the Holy Spirit:

Act 7:51, Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

False again! The Father does not draw everyone but only those He elected, chosen, named, and predestined to salvation before the foundation of the world.

On the contrary:

Jhn 12:32, And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

 

[justbyfaith]

Ok, so now we are redefining our terms. When we first began, you said it was a choice; now it is a response. Which is it? A choice or a response?

~ If it is a choice, then you have saved yourself by choosing correctly
Works righteousness
~ If it is a response, then it is based on whatever you responded to; the pastor's words. Therefore, if you are responding to the pastors words, and it is not the work of the Spirit changing you, you are saved by the actions of another human.
Works righteousness

So, you believe in works righteousness?

The response has some basis in our decision either to receive or reject Christ.

 

[Mjh29]

The response has some basis in our decision either to receive or reject Christ.

So it is partially by our works and partially by the works of others?

So you believe in works righteousness?

 

[charity]

False! When the Father draws you to Jesus you can rest assured you will be saved and your decision has nothing to do with your conversion. This is known as Irresistible Grace.



False again! The Father does not draw everyone but only those He elected, chosen, named, and predestined to salvation before the foundation of the world.

To God Be The Glory

'For whom He did foreknow,
He also did predestinate
to be conformed to the image of His Son,
that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom He did predestinate,
them He also called:
and whom He called,
them He also justified:
and whom He justified,
them He also glorified.'
(Rom 8:29)

Hello @Jun2u,

* We must not forget the fact of God's foreknowledge. He knew beforehand those who would believe on Him: and knowing that, He was able to pre-destinate them; To What? To be conformed to the image of His Son. Those so predestined He 'called', 'justified' and 'glorified'.

* Salvation is for 'whosoever will'.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[justbyfaith]

'For whom He did foreknow,
He also did predestinate
to be conformed to the image of His Son,
that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom He did predestinate,
them He also called:
and whom He called,
them He also justified:
and whom He justified,
them He also glorified.'
(Rom 8:29)

Hello @Jun2u,

* We must not forget the fact of God's foreknowledge. He knew beforehand those who would believe on Him, and knowing that, He was able to pre-destinate them: To What? To be conformed to the image of His Son. Those so predestined He called, justified and glorified.

* Salvation is for 'whosoever will'.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Amen Chris!

Rev 22:17, And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

 

[justbyfaith]

So it is partially by our works and partially by the works of others?

So you believe in works righteousness?

It is by faith in Jesus Christ....and yes, our will has something to do with it.

The actual new birth has nothing to do with our wills but is wholly of the Spirit of God. However, the Holy Spirit is a gentleman, and will not come into our hearts to regenerate us against our will.

 

[Dave L]

If a person experiences Christ, choosing to accept him is the furthest thing from their mind. They already have him in their heart and all they want is more of him. As much as they can get. So I believe the bickering about accepting Christ or not is really about who is born again and who is not.

 

[Mjh29]

It is by faith in Jesus Christ....and yes, our will has something to do with it.

The actual new birth has nothing to do with our wills but is wholly of the Spirit of God. However, the Holy Spirit is a gentleman, and will not come into our hearts to regenerate us against our will.

So you believe that we must first do the inviting and only then the Holy Spirit comes in? So our invitation is what saves us, not the Holy Spirit?

So you believe in works righteousness?

To be honest, if the Holy Spirit were a gentleman, I highly doubt he would associate with fallen sinners.

 

[justbyfaith]

The Calvinist preaches that there is no need to repent or receive Christ. The Bible teaches otherwise.

 

[justbyfaith]

So you believe that we must first do the inviting and only then the Holy Spirit comes in? So our invitation is what saves us, not the Holy Spirit?

So you believe in works righteousness?

To be honest, if the Holy Spirit were a gentleman, I highly doubt he would associate with fallen sinners.

Jesus is a gentleman, and He was/is the friend of tax collectors and sinners.