Why Should the Church Endure the Great Trib?

[Trumpeter]

That Isaiah 26 section is simply about God's protection upon His believers when He strikes down the wicked and Satan's host on the day of The LORD.

Isa 26:21
21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
(KJV)



But you Pre-Trib Rapture folks can't even keep to your same story (from men), because their Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine teaches a false rapture of the Church off the earth long... PRIOR to that event on the 'day of The LORD'!!!

Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter your chambers, And shut your doors behind you; Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment, Until the indignation is past.

This sure sounds like a pre-trib rapture to me.

Do you think The Lord is telling you to go in your house,shut your doors behind you and hide yourself there until the tribulation is over?

I don't think so.

 

[John S]

"Come my people, enter your chambers. And shut your doors behind you. Hide yourself as it were for a little moment until the indignation is past".

THAT is an argument for the Pre-Trib Rapture? Oh My Goodness. That's REALLY stretching it.

 

[Trumpeter]

"Come my people, enter your chambers. And shut your doors behind you. Hide yourself as it were for a little moment until the indignation is past".

THAT is an argument for the Pre-Trib Rapture? Oh My Goodness. That's REALLY stretching it.

That's no more stretching it than saying it is simply about God's protection upon His believers.

What is your take on that verse John?

 

[John S]

It's NOT Pre-Trib Rapture.

 

[Trumpeter]

It's NOT Pre-Trib Rapture.

Greetings John,

I didn't ask you what it's not.

I asked you what you think that verse is saying.

God bless.

 

[veteran]

Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter your chambers, And shut your doors behind you; Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment, Until the indignation is past.

This sure sounds like a pre-trib rapture to me.

Do you think The Lord is telling you to go in your house,shut your doors behind you and hide yourself there until the tribulation is over?

I don't think so.

Like I said before, you don't know WHAT you've believed by those men teaching you a false Pre-Trib Rapture.

Maybe you ought to go back and study what the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine is, because that Isaiah 26 event happens on "the day of The LORD", which is AFTER... the tribulation my Lord Jesus mentioned. The Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine of men teaches instead a rapture PRIOR to the tribulation even starts!!!

Greetings John,

I didn't ask you what it's not.

I asked you what you think that verse is saying.

God bless.

He just told you! Are you blind also???

Isa 26:20-21
20 Come, My people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
(KJV)


You Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine folks WANT... so strongly for the Pre-Trib rapture to be true, that you will just HOP, SKIP, and JUMP over God's written Word to TRY and make a doctrine of men true. You cannot throw away that Isa.26:21 verse that goes with those previous verses there!!!

Your Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine teaches that you are going to be raptured out PRIOR to the tribulation, and then the tribulation begins. But that Isa.26 Scripture is showing you God coming up off His Throne to judge the world, which means putting an END to the wicked upon the earth!

 

[Trumpeter]

Like I said before, you don't know WHAT you've believed by those men teaching you a false Pre-Trib Rapture.

The Word of God taught me about the pre-trib Rapture not "those men".

Maybe you ought to go back and study what the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine is, because that Isaiah 26 event happens on "the day of The LORD", which is AFTER... the tribulation my Lord Jesus mentioned. The Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine of men teaches instead a rapture PRIOR to the tribulation even starts!!!

The "Day of The Lord" IS the Tribulation period my Lord Jesus mentioned.

He just told you! Are you blind also???

Here is what he told me.

It's NOT Pre-Trib Rapture.

I asked him what it is, not what it's not. I think you're the one that is blind.

You Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine folks WANT... so strongly for the Pre-Trib rapture to be true, that you will just HOP, SKIP, and JUMP over God's written Word to TRY and make a doctrine of men true. You cannot throw away that Isa.26:21 verse that goes with those previous verses there!!!

Your Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine teaches that you are going to be raptured out PRIOR to the tribulation, and then the tribulation begins. But that Isa.26 Scripture is showing you God coming up off His Throne to judge the world, which means putting an END to the wicked upon the earth!

And neither one of you has given a response to Isa 26:20.

Joe 2:16 Gather the people, Sanctify the congregation, Assemble the elders, Gather the children and nursing babes; Let the bridegroom go out from his chamber, And the bride from her dressing room.

Jesus is the bridegroom and His chamber is the place He has prepared for us and the Church is His bride.


Jhn 14:2 "In My Father's house are many mansions; if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Jhn 14:3 "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, [there] you may be also.

God bless.

 

[veteran]

The Word of God taught me about the pre-trib Rapture not "those men".


The "Day of The Lord" IS the Tribulation period my Lord Jesus mentioned.

The day of The LORD is the FINAL day of this present world.

What the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine teaches is that Christ makes TWO comings in the end, one PRIOR to the tribulation to rapture out the Church, and then His return with the Church ON the day of The LORD. THAT'S... what the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine is.


You need to quit listening to men's doctrines for the time is getting very short.

 

[Trumpeter]

You need to quit listening to men's doctrines for the time is getting very short.

And I recommend the same to you.

God bless.

 

[veteran]

And I recommend the same to you.

God bless.

Good, then I also recommend you go back and study what the Pre-Trib Rapture actually teaches, especially before you go believing on it before you've actually understood what it's about.

 

[michaelvpardo]

9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed. Revelation 6:9-11

OOPS, I forgot that this isn't the Church, it's for those "saints" who missed the boat, or just for Jews, or something like that. Sure, yeah, thats right. If its a fact I'll believe it. :wacko:

 

[Trumpeter]

9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed. Revelation 6:9-11

OOPS, I forgot that this isn't the Church, it's for those "saints" who missed the boat, or just for Jews, or something like that. Sure, yeah, thats right. If its a fact I'll believe it. :wacko:

Greetings Michael,

You are correct indeed. These are those who are left for refinement.


Thus says The Lord your God, The God of Israel: My anger is kindled against you! For you have not harkened to My voice, and to My words you have not listened; neither do you heed the words given to the prophets of old, nor of this day, even to the forsaking of The One you call Christ, though you seek to call yourselves by His name... Shall I reward you for your disobedience, simply because you are called Christian?!
My children, I have sent to you many in My own name, putting MY words in their mouths; and behold, I am sending 144,000 more, the witnesses. Yet you scoff and reject them, yea you persecute them on account of their words. Therefore, O disobedient generation who do call of themselves Christian, you are given up to refinement and shall pass through the fire, even the fires of The Last Week; you shall not be gathered... There shall be great wailing and gnashing of teeth.
And so it will come to pass: Those who would be first shall be last, and those who were accounted as last shall be first. For every man, who thinks himself righteous, shall be left. For there are none righteous! No, not one!... Not one person or church... All is vanity and pride, complete vexation of spirit.

For I have already told you that I require of you humility,
A complete forsaking of your wills, walking in faith,
Abiding wholly in the doctrine of Christ...

Yet all you men in the churches abide in your own doctrine,
Walking always in religion, and not in faith...

For not one of you obeys God, in truth.​

I tell you, all religions shall fail! Not one shall persist! For The Salvation of God is nowhere to be found in the religions of men, nor shall one find Me in any denomination or church. Thus all your attempts to hold onto your self-righteousness are in vain, for every bitter and perverse doctrine of men shall burn in that day.
My children, Christ’s church dwells within Him, and He dwells in the hearts of men. This is where My Son has rebuilt the temple, which has fallen down. Yet you seek outwardly in the world for fulfillment, mixing the things of the world with the things of God, polluting pure worship with the abominations of the pagan and the heathen... Desecrating My name and My glory as you continue segregating My Word, in an effort to maintain your own way.
Therefore, be separate! Says The Lord of Hosts, your Redeemer. Come out from among them, and follow Me! My servants, take nothing with you, for I abide not in any church made with human hands... Why do you not understand My speech?! For I tell you the truth: Those who love anyone or anything in this world, more than Me, are not worthy of Me; and to be a friend of this world is enmity with God, as it is written... Stop stifling the Spirit!

Know you not, that to celebrate and worship Me,
In any way contrary to the Scriptures, is a desecration of My name?!
And to mix anything I have given you, with the things of satan, is an abomination?!...

My children, come out of her! The harlot has deceived you!...

And you willingly commit adultery with her, reveling in all her fornications.​

You are fallen and given up to judgment, and shall endure desolations on every side! For I shall indeed correct and discipline even all those I love, with a strong rebuke and an outstretched arm. For you have not given heed to The Father’s commands, nor do you heed My correction. Thus I must bring My hand against you, that you may be humbled, that you may be broken atop this Stone, for by no other means shall you enter into My rest...Beloved, if I do not leave you to refinement, assuredly I say to you, you shall never enter in.
For this is a very stiff-necked generation, a very hard-hearted people. And though these called Christian do seek to honor Me with their lips, their hearts remain far from Me. Therefore, I ask you, who do you serve?... The world, and all its adulteries against God? Or God, in spirit and in Truth, apart from this world? For as it is written: The day is coming, and is already here, when The Father shall receive the worship He really wants. For only by the power of the Holy Spirit shall one worship God as He really is... Thus the first harvest shall indeed be lowly, of the lowly; and the second plenteous, of the refined and penitent.

Repent, therefore, and humble yourselves,
That you might escape all these things
Which must shortly come to pass...

Repent, I say! Repent, in truth!...

And now take up your cross and follow Me!​

Excerpt from:
Refinement and The Day of The Lord
http://trumpetcallofgodonline.com/index.php5?title=Refinement_and_The_Day_of_The_Lord

 

[BLACK SHEEP]

9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed. Revelation 6:9-11

OOPS, I forgot that this isn't the Church, it's for those "saints" who missed the boat, or just for Jews, or something like that. Sure, yeah, thats right. If its a fact I'll believe it. :wacko:

The altar of the fifth seal is symbolic of paradise. Altars are figurative of paradise in the OT. These martyrs are all those who have died in Christ since Christ resurrection. The idea that we go to heaven after death is a big Protestant blunder. Not one verse say's we go to heaven after we die. We go to paradise to await the Lord's return and subsequent resurrection.

 

[rockytopva]

The church is not going to have to go through tribulation. Christ Jesus speaks of his coming as unlooked for, in normal everyday times, like the ones we are living in now. If we had to go through a tribulation one could set his clock as to Christ's return with the saints... But if we are going to return with him how is it we are on earth? Come on guys.... Think a little.

 

[BLACK SHEEP]

The church is not going to have to go through tribulation. Christ Jesus speaks of his coming as unlooked for, in normal everyday times, like the ones we are living in now. If we had to go through a tribulation one could set his clock as to Christ's return with the saints... But if we are going to return with him how is it we are on earth? Come on guys.... Think a little.

The people who return with Christ are the saints who were resurrected with Christ at His resurrection. All those who have died in Christ since His resurrection are still in paradise awaiting His return and resurrection. Come on now....think a little!

I should also say that pre-tribbers have fabricated another rapture and another return of Christ just to support a completely fabricated false teaching.
Another pre-trib contradiction is that you guys believe that the marriage supper of the Lamb occurs right after the rapture. That means that all those who died in Christ during the tribulation missed it! Or do you guys simply manufacture another marriage supper of the Lamb!

 

[Trumpeter]

The church is not going to have to go through tribulation. Christ Jesus speaks of his coming as unlooked for, in normal everyday times, like the ones we are living in now. If we had to go through a tribulation one could set his clock as to Christ's return with the saints... But if we are going to return with him how is it we are on earth? Come on guys.... Think a little.

Amen Rocky,

Christ's true Bride will be with The Lord celebrating the marriage supper of the Lamb during the Tribulation.

Rev 19:9 Then he said to me, "Write: 'Blessed [are] those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!' " And he said to me, "These are the true sayings of God."

God bless.

The people who return with Christ are the saints who were resurrected with Christ at His resurrection. All those who have died in Christ since His resurrection are still in paradise awaiting His return and resurrection. Come on now....think a little!

All those who have died in Christ since His resurrection are still in the grave awaiting His return and resurrection. Come on now....think a little!

 

[rockytopva]

Oh, so Christ is not coming quickly. Alright everyone, www.christianityboard.com claims that Christ is not coming soon... No need to be ready! No need to be prepared! He is not coming as a thief! Not in normal everyday times like Noah and Lot's time.

Wrong...

2 Peter 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

 

[BLACK SHEEP]

Oh, so Christ is not coming quickly. Alright everyone, www.christianityboard.com claims that Christ is not coming soon... No need to be ready! No need to be prepared! He is not coming as a thief! Not in normal everyday times like Noah and Lot's time.

Wrong...

2 Peter 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

I think that you misunderstand the passage.

The Lord's return is said to come as a thief in the night. BUT THE TEXT IMPLIES THAT IT'S NOT CHRISTIANS THAT HIS RETURN COMES AS A THIEF IN THE NIGHT.

TAKE A LOOK AT THE PASSAGE AGAIN.

But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

Paul is telling the Philippian's that it's not necessary for him to tell them about the times and seasons of His return because they already know.

For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Paul say's they already know that the Day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night!

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

THEY can only be interpreted as unbelievers.

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

The word but shows opposition and distinction between unbelievers, who the Lord does return as a thief in the night. And Christian's who already know that he does return as a thief in the night!

So the passage indicates that the Day of the Lord will not overtake Christian's since Paul say's, "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you." For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Get it!

 

[veteran]

The altar of the fifth seal is symbolic of paradise. Altars are figurative of paradise in the OT. These martyrs are all those who have died in Christ since Christ resurrection. The idea that we go to heaven after death is a big Protestant blunder. Not one verse say's we go to heaven after we die. We go to paradise to await the Lord's return and subsequent resurrection.

You forget to include the heart of the meaning of that 5th Seal, which is about the saints under the altar being told to wait a little while until their brethren on earth are killed as they were.


Rev 6:9-11
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost Thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?"
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
(KJV)


If anyone thinks that's about a Pre-Trib Rapture, they're really off their rocker!

 

[TWC]

Oh, so Christ is not coming quickly. Alright everyone, www.christianityboard.com claims that Christ is not coming soon... No need to be ready! No need to be prepared! He is not coming as a thief! Not in normal everyday times like Noah and Lot's time.

Wrong...

You know good and well that it's the pretrib folks who de-emphasize readiness and preparation.

Imagine a day in where believers are taken to prisons and forced at gunpoint to renounce their faith. However, the guns aren't pointed at the believers themselves, but at their loved ones, and every time they refuse to renounce their faith, they have to watch their spouses, parents, and children die. Who is going to be more prepared, the one who knew that day was coming or the one who didn't believe he would have to go through it?