Why the Mass, Eucharist, & "Holy" Communion Is Evil

[Christ4Me]

people who get left behind are still saved?? Wow. Yea you dont belong in a presbyterian church with thinking like that. Dont you ever study the WCF??

Isn't that a Wrestling Federation? Just kidding.

We are not supposed to accept church's teachings as if they are scripture per their application, but prove or reprove church's teachings by the scripture with His help.

If you expect the Catholics to do this, then Protestant has to lead by example too. One may find the Lord Jesus Christ reforming the churches more to bear more fruit, but the churches will not do that. So it is up to the individual believers to do that for their own sake with Jesus to walk in the light in fellowship with the Father and the Son by abiding in His words to be His disciples rather than a disciple or member of a church.

Otherwise, any saved believer still remaining in iniquity, run the risk of being left behind to die, but their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven, to await their resurrection after the great tribulation.

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

 

[Berserk]

We are to take communion in remembrance of Him and for nothing else.

I do not go to church any more so taking communion by myself is the only option I have left. I have not done that yet.

"For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood abide in me, and I in them (John 7:55-56)."

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Isn't that a Wrestling Federation? Just kidding.

We are not supposed to accept church's teachings as if they are scripture per their application, but prove or reprove church's teachings by the scripture with His help.

If you expect the Catholics to do this, then Protestant has to lead by example too. One may find the Lord Jesus Christ reforming the churches more to bear more fruit, but the churches will not do that. So it is up to the individual believers to do that for their own sake with Jesus to walk in the light in fellowship with the Father and the Son by abiding in His words to be His disciples rather than a disciple or member of a church.

Otherwise, any saved believer still remaining in iniquity, run the risk of being left behind to die, but their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven, to await their resurrection after the great tribulation.

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

so, first off, i know there are some differences between presbyterian denoms pertaining to the WCF, but as a covenant presbyterian, you are to follow, believe, and use the WCF as well as longer and short catechisms for doctrine. The Bible always will be first and foremost the book that we learn from. It is THE authoritative word from God. But the WCF is how we explain the Bible. If you dont want to follow the WCF, i would suggest finding a non confessional church.
Second, the only people left behind will be the unsaved. Nowhere does it say that those saved will ever be left behind.
Third, it sounds from an earlier post that your church would not listen to your views. Understand that you dont get to tell the teaching elder that he is wrong. If you have an issue with what a church message is, there is a proper way to handle it. Here is a link you may wish to look over.
Book of Discipline: The Orthodox Presbyterian Church

1 timothy 5:19
Hebrews 13:17

 

[Christ4Me]

"For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood abide in me, and I in them (John 7:55-56)."

Thank you for sharing, brother, but...

Yet in spite of transubstantiation claims, the bread is still bread and the wine is still wine. Did Jesus lie or was Jesus being sarcastic to the Jews whom were not listening to Him in how to actually receive that bread of life that gives eternal life to the world by coming to & believing in Him?

Jesus started off deferring from bread to eat thus laboring not for meat which perishes.

John 6:25 And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, when camest thou hither? 26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled. 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Then the people ask Him what work of God can they do?

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

It's not the Eucharist nor the Mass. Then they had asked Jesus for a sign so they would believe Him.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work? 31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

So the Jews were asking for a sign from Him so they would believe Him and they referenced manna that Gid gave their fathers to eat in the desert.

32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

Jesus said the Father gives them this true bread from heaven for the bread of God is "he" which cometh down from heaven to give life to the world. That means the father sent Jesus Christ from heaven into the world to give life to the world.

34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

Now pay attention to what Jesus told them in how to recieve that bread of life.

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

You receive that bread of life, hence eternal life, by coming to & believing in Jesus Christ but Jesus pointed out they seen Him & believe not in Him.

Jesus repeated the Good News again.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jews still did not understood Him in how to receive that bread of life by believing in Him but Jesus repeated the Good News again.

John 6:41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven. 42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven? 43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. 46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. 47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. 48 I am that bread of life.

The Jews were so stuck on waiting for that sign of eating manna from heaven that they did not listen to His words on how to receive that bread of life and so that is how you are to take His words to the unbelieving Jews as utter sarcasm whom refuse to believe in Him to get eternal life.

John 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. 59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.

Better to take His words to His disciples in developing doctrine, because Jesus was not talking about communion but how to be saved by believing in Him.

John 6:60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?

62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

Jesus referred to His ascension for when any one believes in Him afterwards are born again of the Spirit & thus saved.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

Then Jesus asked the remaining 12 disciples.

John 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God. 70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? 71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

So Jesus pointed out one of them did not believe in His words and thus did not believe in Him to have eternal life, but is a traitor.

The Catholic Church is a traitor; a self serving thief very much like Judas Iscariot in steaking the joy of your salvation.

John 12:3 Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment. 4 Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him, 5 Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor? 6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.

 

[Christ4Me]

so, first off, i know there are some differences between presbyterian denoms pertaining to the WCF, but as a covenant presbyterian, you are to follow, believe, and use the WCF as well as longer and short catechisms for doctrine. The Bible always will be first and foremost the book that we learn from. It is THE authoritative word from God. But the WCF is how we explain the Bible. If you dont want to follow the WCF, i would suggest finding a non confessional church.

The scripture is the only authoritative word from God. By the many words of men, error can creep in & it has.

Second, the only people left behind will be the unsaved. Nowhere does it say that those saved will ever be left behind.

Note verse 6 in John 15:1-8 for why a saved believer stops being His disciple by not abiding in Him & His words has that risk to be cut off. You cannot be cut off from the vine unless you were part of the vine as a saved believer. Read on in how they are still saved believers even though cut off.

The Bridegroom is coming to receive the abiding bride of Christ to the marriage Supper above and so no one can be in iniquity when He comes; as the church is to excommunicate any unrepentant brother, so will God do at the rapture event for not abiding in Him 1 Corinthians 5:8-11

Saved believers are left behind for Satan to wage war on those saints & new believers after the rapture; but their spirits are saved ( 1 Corinthians 5:4-5 with Revelation 2:18-25 )

Even Paul says he can become a castaway and not just lose the reward of the crown; 1 Corinthians 9:24-27

One does not have to verbally deny Him to be denied by Him because one can be in works of iniquity that deny Him; Titus 1:16 & Luke 13:24-30

BUT even when left behind to die in that day when Christ judges His House as the Bridegroom, 2 Corinthians 5:7-11 & 1 Peter 4:17 , God is faithful to still abide even in former believers even though denied by Him for being workers of iniquity; 2 Timothy 2:11-13

Do note how those receiving stripes as left behind for not being ready are still called His servants in Luke 12:40-49 as scripture testifies to where those saints not found abiding in Him go, and that is left behind on earth when that fire comes on a third of the earth; Revelation 8:7-13

Peter testify of that coming fire on the earth also for why we are to endure to the end as Paul refers to running that race for 2 Peter 3:3-18

We run that race by faith in Jesus Christ by looking to Him daily to help us lay aside every weight & sin to be ready for the Bridegroom or else. Hebrews 12:1-2 We do not look to ourselves in doing the best we can but look to Jesus Christ by faith that He will help us abide in Him to go.

Third, it sounds from an earlier post that your church would not listen to your views. Understand that you dont get to tell the teaching elder that he is wrong. If you have an issue with what a church message is, there is a proper way to handle it. Here is a link you may wish to look over.
Book of Discipline: The Orthodox Presbyterian Church

1 timothy 5:19
Hebrews 13:17

1 Timothy 5:1Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;

18 For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward. 19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses. 20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

When the whole church is wrong and the elders are sleeping, and one time, the pastor was going to make an issue of Freemasonry in my former church to call any member out of it, but he and the church dropped it & swept it under the rug when they found out how many were Freemasons.

Keeping members in the church was more important than looking after the flock in keeping the faith in Jesus Christ & abiding in His words as His disciples.

Yeah, I know. A Christian nightmare. Don't be surprise if that happens in your church. How is that in keeping the Presbyterian Catechism?

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

The scripture is the only authoritative word from God. By the many words of men, error can creep in & it has.



Note verse 6 in John 15:1-8 for why a saved believer stops being His disciple by not abiding in Him & His words has that risk to be cut off. You cannot be cut off from the vine unless you were part of the vine as a saved believer. Read on in how they are still saved believers even though cut off.

The Bridegroom is coming to receive the abiding bride of Christ to the marriage Supper above and so no one can be in iniquity when He comes; as the church is to excommunicate any unrepentant brother, so will God do at the rapture event for not abiding in Him 1 Corinthians 5:8-11

Saved believers are left behind for Satan to wage war on those saints & new believers after the rapture; but their spirits are saved ( 1 Corinthians 5:4-5 with Revelation 2:18-25 )

Even Paul says he can become a castaway and not just lose the reward of the crown; 1 Corinthians 9:24-27

One does not have to verbally deny Him to be denied by Him because one can be in works of iniquity that deny Him; Titus 1:16 & Luke 13:24-30

BUT even when left behind to die in that day when Christ judges His House as the Bridegroom, 2 Corinthians 5:7-11 & 1 Peter 4:17 , God is faithful to still abide even in former believers even though denied by Him for being workers of iniquity; 2 Timothy 2:11-13

Do note how those receiving stripes as left behind for not being ready are still called His servants in Luke 12:40-49 as scripture testifies to where those saints not found abiding in Him go, and that is left behind on earth when that fire comes on a third of the earth; Revelation 8:7-13

Peter testify of that coming fire on the earth also for why we are to endure to the end as Paul refers to running that race for 2 Peter 3:3-18

We run that race by faith in Jesus Christ by looking to Him daily to help us lay aside every weight & sin to be ready for the Bridegroom or else. Hebrews 12:1-2 We do not look to ourselves in doing the best we can but look to Jesus Christ by faith that He will help us abide in Him to go.



1 Timothy 5:1Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;

18 For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward. 19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses. 20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

When the whole church is wrong and the elders are sleeping, and one time, the pastor was going to make an issue of Freemasonry in my former church to call any member out of it, but he and the church dropped it & swept it under the rug when they found out how many were Freemasons.

Keeping members in the church was more important than looking after the flock in keeping the faith in Jesus Christ & abiding in His words as His disciples.

Yeah, I know. A Christian nightmare. Don't be surprise if that happens in your church. How is that in keeping the Presbyterian Catechism?

so do you believe in OSAS?
Do you believe in the doctrine of election?
Do you believe in the Trinity?

 

[Christ4Me]

so do you believe in OSAS?

Yes per John 6:37-40

Do you believe in the doctrine of election?

Yes but there are 2 kinds of inheritance in the Kingdom of God. 2 timothy 2:20-21 & Matthew 5:19 That is what running that race by faith in Jesus Christ is for, the high prize of our calling to be that vessel unto honor in His House.

Do you believe in the Trinity?

I believe in the Three Witnesses within the One God but even though the Holy Spirit is God, because of other spirits in the world in idolatry, & the occult, God would call sinners away from their focus on spirits to His Son in coming to the Father by ( John 14:6 ) and no other way ( John 10:1 ) and so the only way to honor the Father is by only honoring the Son ad that is how we will be judged John 5:22-23 . It was the modified ecumenical Nicene creed of 381 A.D. that broadened the way in the worship place to include the worship of the Holy Spirit withy the Father & the Son ( Matthew 7:13-16 ) & the solution is to narrow the way back to the Son or else per Luke 13:24-30

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

I would suggest you find another church. Otherwise, church discipline may be needed.

 

[Christ4Me]

I would suggest you find another church. Otherwise, church discipline may be needed.

Discipline from the Presbytery? If you ever wonder why churches today do not do any excommunication, it is because they can always go to another church. They prefer to keep members and yet somehow hope they get the message from the pulpit to repent without excommunicating them.

Did your church have Promise Keeper's program in it?

Does your church requires deacons & elders to make a commitment or a promise or a pledge before taking office?

Is it any wonder why Freemasons are in it because that is after their rudiment in looking to their own power to do good & be good?

Ask around in your church and see. If it ever allowed a Freemason funeral to take place after a Christian funeral in that same church, then you may suspect that there are church members that are Freemasons.

 

[Berserk]

Christ4Me: "Yet in spite of transubstantiation claims, the bread is still bread and the wine is still wine.

LOL. You're projecting Transubstantiation into my post when I'm not even Catholic!

Christ4Me: "Did Jesus lie or was Jesus being sarcastic to the Jews whom [!] were not listening to Him in how to actually receive that bread of life that gives eternal life to the world by coming to & believing in Him?"...Now pay attention to what Jesus told them in how to recieve that bread of life.

What you don't get here is that Jesus takes His time to make His point. Yes, faith is His initial focus, but in 6:53-58 He elaborates His point by identifying Holy Communion as the vehicle by which He comes to abide in the believer, and the believer in Him (6:56), so that the believer receives "eternal life (6:54)."



Christ4Me: "John 6:60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
...66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him."

You miss Jesus' point: He loses most of His disciples because of the offense created by His cannibalistic imagery of eating His flesh and drinking His blood. To remove this offense, all He needs to do is make it clear that He is not speaking literally. He does not do so because a believer comes "to abide in Me, and I in him" precisely by consuming the Communion elements (so 6:56)!

What you don't get is 3 indications of Jesus' shift in focus in 6:53-58 from "the "bread of life" to sacramental participation.
(1) Prior to John 6:53-58 Jesus never associates the "bread of life" image with eating His flesh or drinking His blood.
(2) The Greek verb used for "eat my flesh" is "trogo," which means "munch on" as in munching on Communion bread.
(3) John is the only Gospel to omit reference to the Institution of Holy Communion in his chapter (13) on the Last Supper. Is that because He disrespects the meaning of Holy Communion, as your view implies? Hardly. Instead, John takes up the subject of Holy Communion in 6:53-58.



Christ4Me: "The Catholic Church is a traitor; a self serving thief very much like Judas Iscariot in steaking the joy of your salvation."

On the contrary, it is you who betray God's Word by failing to investigate how informed Catholics justify their distinctives from Scripture. And I say this as a Protestant evangelical. Since you don't know NT Greek, you need to familiarize yourself with modern scholarly commentaries on the Fourth Gospel.

 

[Christ4Me]

LOL. You're projecting Transubstantiation into my post when I'm not even Catholic!

Not all Protestant are clear from Catholic teachings. The only reason you quoted that reference is to oppose the rest of what Jesus was really talking about. Jesus was talking about how we are saved by coming to & believing in Him more than what the CC is applying out of context.

John 6th Chapter Was Never about Communion But the Good News

What you don't get here is that Jesus takes His time to make His point. Yes, faith is His initial focus, but in 6:53-58 He elaborates His point by identifying Holy Communion as the vehicle by which He comes to abide in the believer, and the believer in Him (6:56), so that the believer receives "eternal life (6:54)."

So are you saying taking "holy" communion is how one receives eternal life? Since Jesus said we will not hunger nor thirst any more, and if you say He is talking about communion here in John 6:35, then why are we still taking communion unless by that notion, eternal life has not been received yet? Wouldn't continue taking communion deny that we had received eternal life the first time we had communion?

Therefore, I do not believe Jesus is talking about communion at all in hat chapter since coming to Him & believing in Him is how we are saved thus born again of the Spirit for why we will never hunger nor thirst for salvation again.

So I got His point. If you go to that link to that thread provided earlier, Jesus keeps reiterating that Good News for why He was not talking about communion at all until He began speaking to the Jews & His disciples to their stuck mindset in eating manna like their fathers did in the desert, as I dare say He said so in utter sarcasm for not believing His words on how they are saved.

You miss Jesus' point: He loses most of His disciples because of the offense created by His cannibalistic imagery of eating His flesh and drinking His blood. To remove this offense, all He needs to do is make it clear that He is not speaking literally. He does not do so because a believer comes "to abide in Me, and I in him" precisely by consuming the Communion elements (so 6:56)!

Au contraire He has been telling them how to receive that bread of life by believing in Him over and over again. It was the Jews and the majority of His disciples that got stuck on the imagery of eating that bread like their forefathers did eat manna in the desert but Jesus deferred from that.

What you don't get is 3 indications of Jesus' shift in focus in 6:53-58 from "the "bread of life" to sacramental participation.
(1) Prior to John 6:53-58 Jesus never associates the "bread of life" image with eating His flesh or drinking His blood.
(2) The Greek verb used for "eat my flesh" is "trogo," which means "munch on" as in munching on Communion bread.
(3) John is the only Gospel to omit reference to the Institution of Holy Communion in his chapter (13) on the Last Supper. Is that because He disrespects the meaning of Holy Communion, as your view implies? Hardly. Instead, John takes up the subject of Holy Communion in 6:53-58.

If what you say is true, He could have had passed the baskets of loaves of bread around and turn water into wine to give the Jews what they had asked for, but what did He say to their request?

John 6:34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

If what you say is true, the Jews had asked for that communion and Jesus said no?

On the contrary, it is you who betray God's Word by failing to investigate how informed Catholics justify their distinctives from Scripture. And I say this as a Protestant evangelical.

Yeah.. I am not taking that bait to bite you back, brother. I can say I am saved because Jesus is my Savior for why He is the Good News to man. I can say you are saved for believing in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God had raised Him from the dead & communion has nothing to do with it.

Since you don't know NT Greek, you need to familiarize yourself with modern scholarly commentaries on the Fourth Gospel.

Ask Jesus Christ at that throne of grace rather than have commentaries teach you their theology because Jesus wasn't talking about communion.

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.... 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

 

[Cassandra]

Since I believe professing believers that get left behind are still saved and thus still His, then I believe they are real believers in my church and in other churches also, but just following the crowd and not discerning in proving everything taught to them by the church with the Lord Jesus Christ.

Christians today are followers of a church as if the church is the good shepherd rather than followers of Jesus Christ in trusting Him to do His job personally to us.

Here's my .02
I have not been to church in almost 2 yrs due to Covid. And soon as it dies down I will go back.
However, I believe that this forum is a church, and each one of us is a member. We have lessons, Bible studies and we discuss all sorts of things. We share one anothers burdens. We get sermons (sometimes more that we want ).
We do an outreach ministry here as well. Who knows how many read here who are not members and are still affected by what we talk about? ((That is why we kinda have to be careful what we post.))

There are people here that I have never met that I love.
I am so thankful for this church.

So many things to think about....

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We are to take communion in remembrance of Him and for nothing else.

I do not go to church any more so taking communion by myself is the only option I have left. I have not done that yet.

why don't you go to church?

 

[Christ4Me]

Here's my .02
I have not been to church in almost 2 yrs due to Covid. And soon as it dies down I will go back.
However, I believe that this forum is a church, and each one of us is a member. We have lessons, Bible studies and we discuss all sorts of things. We share one anothers burdens. We get sermons (sometimes more that we want ).
We do an outreach ministry here as well. Who knows how many read here who are not members and are still affected by what we talk about? ((That is why we kinda have to be careful what we post.))

There are people here that I have never met that I love.
I am so thankful for this church.

So many things to think about....

Thank you for sharing your 2 cents.

Every believer is a member of the body of Christ, the church, but not every member in this forum is abiding in Him & His words in being His disciples.

So I consider this forum more of an outreach ministry for the Lord to undertake rather than a fellowship since we are not to have fellowship with workers of iniquity but rather reprove them.

I am thankful to the Lord that I am still here as He ministers to others & to me too, but whether I shall be here tomorrow or not, is up to Him.

I thank the Lord for you too & I pray He will continue to minister to both of us in growing in the knowledge of Him & to keep us from the evil.

 

[Christ4Me]

why don't you go to church?

#1 My former church, due to red tape and whatever, will not hear correction by the scripture on important issues of faith. I just realize that being part of a Presbytery would prevent any church from going against what the Presbytery says was okay since they own the church building and the pastor works for them under an agreement with their beliefs & not to decline from it.

#2 Most of the churches in the valley got involved with the Promise Keepers movement & I mailed to all the churches warning them. Only 2 called me to disagree with me. A couple from a church saw my ad in the newspaper agreeing with what I had shared about Promise Keepers, but their church never contacted me. From what they had sent in the mail, sounded like they were the Bereans.

#3. Plus Jesus seems to imply that nobody would listen to a "prophet" in his own country or in his own house. Not that I consider myself a prophet but someone that Jesus had pulled me out of a lot of iniquity & kept me from the 2 major apostasy engulfing the nation in the 1990's which was the Promise Keepers movements and the holy laughter movement. Indeed, in one convention, both movements joined together in St. Louis, Missouri.

#4. I have enemies that go out of their way to sow discord between me and others. I am usually a victim of pranks and mischief and fraud when I go out, including going to the family doctor. They have been doing it for quite some time, and it doesn't look like it will end any time soon. My enemies range from sinners to Christians, but it is odd how they all seem to be of one accord in coming after me in making sport of me.

In spite of it all, Jesus Christ is my Good Shepherd & Friend Who helps me to walk in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son. He carries me through these provocative events and helps me when the devil tries to get a grip on my anger repeatedly afterwards by reminding me to forgive them for they know not what they do and to suffer grief as He did. 1 Peter 2:19-25 I do have His peace the majority of the time & for that I am thankful.

 

[Berserk]

Christ4Me: "So are you saying taking "holy" communion is how one receives eternal life?"

Your question betrays your ignorance of salvation as a process in NT theology.

Christ4Me: "Since Jesus said we will not hunger nor thirst any more, and if you say He is talking about communion here in John 6:35,"

You must learn to read more carefully: I have repeatedly said that the topic of Holy Communion is not addressed until 6:53-58, where the Eucharistic imagery of munching on (Greek: trogo") Jesus' flesh and drinking His blood is first introduced. The crudeness of "munching on" Jesus flesh is a clear reference to munching on Communion bread. Prior to 6:53-58, Jesus never refers to munching on "the bread of life" because the topic of Communion has not yet been taken up. I remind you that Jesus omits the topic of Communion in John's treatment of the Last Supper precisely because He addresses Holy Communion in John 6:53-58.

Christ4Me: "John 6:34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. If what you say is true, the Jews had asked for that communion and Jesus said no?"

Again, you miss the point that Holy Communion is not brought up until 6:53-58. See above.

Christ4Me: "1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.... 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you..."


You duck Jesus' teaching about the ongoing nature of the salvation process. How do we continue "to abide in Jesus?" Jesus replies that regular discerning partaking of Holy Communion is an essential aspect (so John 6:54-56, the meaning of which you continually evade.
let's get deeper into the Word. Paul denies the once-for-all status as "new creations" in Christ Jesus (2 Cor. 5:17). Rather, he teaches, "Though the outer man perishes, the inner man is made new day by day (4:16)." It is this redemptive process that inspires Paul to confess, "I discipline my body and enslave it, lest having preached to others, I myself should be a reprobate (Greek: "adokimos") (2 Cor. 9:27). "Adokimos" implies "unsaved (so Rom. 1:28)." The uncertainty of the final divine verdict is implicit in Paul's stress on the salvation process, and so, he warns that you must "work out your own salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:13). "Fear and trembling" is advisable because of the danger of self-delusion about whether the salvation process continues on the right course.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

I thought Christ told us to.

Christ told His followers to keep the Passover with the new symbols. Neither mass nor communion are supported by the Bible. The Bible is clear about the fact that His death was to be celebrated on the day that it happened, and only on that day. Much like a lot of other traditions in Catholicism and Protestantism, mass and communion are inventions of men that are commonly elevated above scriptural authority.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

#1 My former church, due to red tape and whatever, will not hear correction by the scripture on important issues of faith. I just realize that being part of a Presbytery would prevent any church from going against what the Presbytery says was okay since they own the church building and the pastor works for them under an agreement with their beliefs & not to decline from it.

#2 Most of the churches in the valley got involved with the Promise Keepers movement & I mailed to all the churches warning them. Only 2 called me to disagree with me. A couple from a church saw my ad in the newspaper agreeing with what I had shared about Promise Keepers, but their church never contacted me. From what they had sent in the mail, sounded like they were the Bereans.

#3. Plus Jesus seems to imply that nobody would listen to a "prophet" in his own country or in his own house. Not that I consider myself a prophet but someone that Jesus had pulled me out of a lot of iniquity & kept me from the 2 major apostasy engulfing the nation in the 1990's which was the Promise Keepers movements and the holy laughter movement. Indeed, in one convention, both movements joined together in St. Louis, Missouri.

#4. I have enemies that go out of their way to sow discord between me and others. I am usually a victim of pranks and mischief and fraud when I go out, including going to the family doctor. They have been doing it for quite some time, and it doesn't look like it will end any time soon. My enemies range from sinners to Christians, but it is odd how they all seem to be of one accord in coming after me in making sport of me.

In spite of it all, Jesus Christ is my Good Shepherd & Friend Who helps me to walk in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son. He carries me through these provocative events and helps me when the devil tries to get a grip on my anger repeatedly afterwards by reminding me to forgive them for they know not what they do and to suffer grief as He did. 1 Peter 2:19-25 I do have His peace the majority of the time & for that I am thankful.

Hebrews 10:25
not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

today more than ever we need to heed this warning.

we should not be telling people they need to do something, when they are not doing something God commands themselves.

We need to be careful and understand the world is looking at us. they call us hypocrites because of our habit of judging people when we do not judge ourselves. Just saying.

 

[Christ4Me]

Christ4Me: "So are you saying taking "holy" communion is how one receives eternal life?"

Your question betrays your ignorance of salvation as a process in NT theology.

So basically Jesus is not really the Savior when it is a process we must undergo t save ourselves, correct? Just going by your words, brother.

Christ4Me: "Since Jesus said we will not hunger nor thirst any more, and if you say He is talking about communion here in John 6:35,"

You must learn to read more carefully: I have repeatedly said that the topic of Holy Communion is not addressed until 6:53-58, where the Eucharistic imagery of munching on (Greek: trogo") Jesus' flesh and drinking His blood is first introduced. The crudeness of "munching on" Jesus flesh is a clear reference to munching on Communion bread. Prior to 6:53-58, Jesus never refers to munching on "the bread of life" because the topic of Communion has not yet been taken up. I remind you that Jesus omits the topic of Communion in John's treatment of the Last Supper precisely because He addresses Holy Communion in John 6:53-58.

And what is the whole point of the imagery wasn't still about communion but His death on the cross per His words to Nicodemus in how believing in Him after His ascension which was after His crucifixion was how any one gets born again of the Spirit by believing in him to have eternal life. John 3:7-18

Christ4Me: "John 6:34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. If what you say is true, the Jews had asked for that communion and Jesus said no?"

Again, you miss the point that Holy Communion is not brought up until 6:53-58. See above.

No. I believe you missed His point because He could have given the Jews communion right then and there. That is what the Jews were asking for as a sign and they were still waiting because they did not hear Him how to receive that bread of life by coming to & believing in him. If He was not talking about communion hen, He was not talking to communion in the reference you pulled out as if all that time He was really referring to that.

Jesus told His remaining disciples again that it is His words that brings life as in coming to & believing in Him is how they are really saved and has nothing to do with eating bread or manna as He has been telling the Jews plainly in that last verse John 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

The eating of this bread of life is by coming to & believing in Jesus Christ for how they receive eternal life to hunger no more to be filled for they are saved.

Christ4Me: "1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.... 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you..."

You duck Jesus' teaching about the ongoing nature of the salvation process. How do we continue "to abide in Jesus?" Jesus replies that regular discerning partaking of Holy Communion is an essential aspect (so John 6:54-56, the meaning of which you continually evade.
let's get deeper into the Word. Paul denies the once-for-all status as "new creations" in Christ Jesus (2 Cor. 5:17). Rather, he teaches, "Though the outer man perishes, the inner man is made new day by day (4:16)." It is this redemptive process that inspires Paul to confess, "I discipline my body and enslave it, lest having preached to others, I myself should be a reprobate (Greek: "adokimos") (2 Cor. 9:27). "Adokimos" implies "unsaved (so Rom. 1:28)." The uncertainty of the final divine verdict is implicit in Paul's stress on the salvation process, and so, he warns that you must "work out your own salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:13). "Fear and trembling" is advisable because of the danger of self-delusion about whether the salvation process continues on the right course.

Fear & trembling goes to treating His blood of the Covenant as an unholy thing as if it is on par with the blood of bulls & goats that it bears repeating to receive again. So basically Christians who believe that errant teaching are taking "holy" communion in an unholy way.

 

[Christ4Me]

Hebrews 10:25
not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

today more than ever we need to heed this warning.

we should not be telling people they need to do something, when they are not doing something God commands themselves.

We need to be careful and understand the world is looking at us. they call us hypocrites because of our habit of judging people when we do not judge ourselves. Just saying.

They will not hear nor listen.

Matthew 10:13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. 15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Ephesians 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

2 Thessalonians 3:1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;....

14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.