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Featured Why the pope could not possibly be the Antichrist

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Enoch111, May 24, 2020.

  1. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    For some strange reason, all the Protestant reformers decided that the pope (or nowadays the papacy) was this Antichrist. The Seventh Day Adventist Church followed suit. While this may have helped them to separate from the Catholic Church, this was not something which they derived from a study of the Scriptures. But there are multiple biblical reasons why the pope – the bishop of Rome and the head of the Catholic church – cannot possibly be the Antichrist.

    Prophecies pertaining to the Antichrist are found primarily in the books of Daniel and Revelation, with some references in the Prophets and the Gospels and Epistles. The Antichrist (also called “the Little Horn”, “the Man of Sin, “the Son of Perdition” , “the Beast”, and several other names and titles
    must be a renegade Jew who has full access to the future temple at Jerusalem, where he will literally sit claiming to be God (2 Thess 2:4). He must also present himself to Orthodox Jews as their long-awaited Jewish Messiah. The Greek word antichristos means one who is both against Christ and come in place of Christ.

    None of the characteristics of the Antichrist fit any popes, particularly the fact that he is the supreme dictator and controller of the world. The popes had controlled Europe at one time, but they were never dictators over the whole world of humanity. And that in itself should have been sufficient to refute the false idea that the pope (or papacy) is the Antichrist.

    God has provided us with an overview of the 3 ½ year reign of the Antichrist in Revelation 13 (13 being a very fitting number for him because of its evil connotation).

    THE BLASPHEMOUS KINGDOM OF THE ANTICHRIST WILL ARISE IN THE FUTURE
    1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw
    a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

    THE ANTICHRIST IS BEASTLY, VICIOUS, AND PREDATORY
    2 And the beast which I saw was like unto
    a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion:...

    THE ANTICHRIST RECEIVES HIS POWER AND AUTHORITY FROM SATAN
    ...and
    the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

    THE WORLD IS ENAMOURED WITH THE ANTICHRIST
    3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed:
    and all the world wondered after the beast.

    THE WORLD WORSHIPS SATAN AND THE ANTICHRIST FOR 42 MONTHS
    4
    And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

    THE ANTICHRIST IS THE ARCH BLASPHEMER OF GOD AND CHRIST
    6
    And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

    THE ANTICHRIST IS THE ENEMY OF THE TRIBULATION SAINTS
    7 And it was given unto him
    to make war with the saints, and to overcome them:...

    THE ANTICHRIST WILL RULE OVER ALL THE INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD

    ...and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

    THE WHOLE UNBELIEVING AND UNGODLY WORLD WORSHIPS HIM

    8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    THE SAINTS MUST BE PREPARED FOR PERSECUTION AND MARTYRDOM
    9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword.
    Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

    THE FALSE PROPHET IS ALLIED WITH THE ANTICHRIST TO DAZZLE THE WORLD
    11 And I beheld
    another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

    THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION IS AN ANIMATED IDOL OF THE ANTICHRIST
    15
    And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

    THE MARK OF THE BEAST WILL CONTROL THE WHOLE WORLD AT THAT TIME
    16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18
    Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
     
  2. theophilus

    theophilus Well-Known Member

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    I fully agree the pope can't be the Antichrist. I once heard someone suggest that he could be the false prophet. What do you think of that idea?
     
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  3. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    I may not agree he is a renegade Jew, but I do agree that he cannot and will not be a pope. The beast is described as military empire unparalleled in human history; one greater than anything that has ever come before it, and which will attain territory by military conquest:

    After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and broke in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. (Daniel 7:7)

    Horns and teeth are the means by which animals kill and destroy, and "stomping the residue with its feet" is likely a reference to what will become of the nations that are conquered by military means; they will so utterly be brought to destruction that they will cease to exist as separate nation-states.

    I have a hard time believing a pope could pull such a thing off. The Antichrist will be primarily a military & political leader, not a spiritual one.
     
  4. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Well the false prophet must be a miracle worker (as you will note above) so that rules out any pope. However, a future pope will probably be a strong ally of the Antichrist.
     
  5. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    He is a renegade Jew according to Daniel.
    And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. (Dan 11:36, 37).

    "Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers" meaning the God of his ancestors. The Jews always spoke of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who are called "the fathers" (or patriarchs) in the Bible. "nor any god" contrasts the true God of the Hebrews with the false gods of the Gentiles.
     
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  6. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    What complicates it is that he makes a seven year peace treaty with Israel, and since the faction the Antichrist will represent is likely the Muslim nations, this has the Muslims allowing themselves to be led by a Jew. They would consider that to be a blasphemous thing.
     
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  7. theophilus

    theophilus Well-Known Member

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    There is a way the antichrist could win the loyalty of both Jews and Muslims. Many Muslims believe that a leader called the Mahdi will appear in the future. Many of the prophecies of the Mahdi resemble the Bible's predictions about the antichrist, leading many Bible scholars to think they are the same person.
    Islamic antichrist? Will the antichrist be a Muslim? | GotQuestions.org

    I believe this interpretation is correct and that Satan established Islam to be the vehicle through whom his false Christ will enter the world. Muslims would expect their Mahdi to be an Arab while Jews would expect their Messiah to be a Jew. Both these expectations could easily be met in the same person. Arabs consider anyone born of an Arab father to be Arab; Jews consider anyone born of a Jewish mother to be Jewish. I believe the antichrist will be the son of an Arab father and a Jewish mother and so be acceptable to both groups. It would be easy for such a person to negotiate a treaty between the two groups.
     
  8. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    So do I. We think quite a bit alike.

    This raises some interesting questions. First, will the Jews see the leader who agrees to the seven year covenant as their Messiah? Will they see the Muslim leader as their Messiah? (that one I kinda find doubtful personally, but I suppose it's possible). My biggest question on the passage, and one I admit I do not have a full handle on yet, is how he will not regard the god of his fathers. If he is Muslim, it would suggest he will turn to worshipping a different god, which would not be acceptable to the Islamic nations. If he is a non-Muslim who rejected his god in favor of Allah, that would make sense because Allah could indeed be described as "a god of forces," whom the Antichrist is said will turn to worshipping instead. But that would mean he is originally not a worshipper of Allah but later turns to him. That would likely make him a non-Arab whose fathers once worshipped another god.

    I can honestly say I don't know the answer yet. But I was presenting to Enoch why him being a Jew doesn't click with me. As for yours, it seems contradicted by the fact that if he is born of an Arab father, how then could he reject the god of his father and still be a Muslim?
     
  9. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Let me say this, however. One thing that would clear up the entire issue is if Daniel 11 is not actually related to the end-time Antichrist at all like Daniel 7 is, despite Daniel 11:36 suggesting it might be. If the entire Chapter is actually in reference to Antiochus Epiphanes IV, then it need not even be fulfilled by the Antichrist that is coming.

    Barnes gave the following commentary on this, and it fits well. I underlined the key paragraphs:

    Barnes's Daniel 11:38 Bible Commentary
    But in his estate - The marginal reading here is, "As for the Almighty God, in his seat he shall honor, yea, he shall honor a god," etc. The more correct rendering, however, is that in the text, and the reference is to some god which he would honor, or for which he would show respect. The rendering proposed by Lengerke is the true rendering, "But the god of forces (firm places, fastnesses - der Vesten) he shall honor in their foundation" (auf seinem Gestelle). The Vulgate renders this, "But the god Maozim shall he honor in his place." So also the Greek. The phrase "in his estate" - על־כנו 'al-kanô - means, properly, "upon his base," or foundation. It occurs in Daniel 11:20-21, where it is applied to a monarch who would succeed another - occupying the same place, or the same seat or throne. See the notes at Daniel 11:2. Here it seems to mean that he would honor the god referred to in the place which he occupied, or, as it were, on his own throne, or in his own temple. The margin is, "or stead;" but the idea is not that he would honor this god instead of another, but that he would do it in his own place. If, however, as Gesenius and De Wette suppose, the sense is, "in his place, or stead," the correct interpretation is, that he would honor this "god of forces," in the stead of honoring the god of his fathers, or any other god. The general idea is clear, that he would show disrespect or contempt for all other gods, and pay his devotions to this god alone.

    Shall he honor - Pay respect to; worship; obey. This would be his god. He would show no respect to the god of his fathers, nor to any of the idols usually worshipped, but would honor this god exclusively.

    The God of forces - Margin, Mauzzim, or gods protectors; or, munitions. Hebrew, מעזים mâ‛uzym; Latin Vulgate, Maozim; Greek, Μαωξεὶμ Maōxeim; Syriac, "the strong God;" Luther, Mausim; Lengerke, der Vesten - fastnesses, fortresses. The Hebrew word מעוז mâ‛ôz means, properly, a strong or fortified place, a fortress; and Gesenius (Lexicon) supposes that the reference here is to "the god of fortresses, a deity of the Syrians obtruded upon the Jews, perhaps Mars." So also Grotius, C. B. Michaelis, Staudlin, Bertholdt, and Winer. Dereser, Havernick, and Lengerke explain it as referring to the Jupiter Capitolinus that Antiochus had learned to worship by his long residence in Rome, and whose worship he transferred to his own country. There has been no little speculation as to the meaning of this passage, and as to the god here referred to; but it would seem that the general idea is plain.

    It is, that the only god which he would acknowledge would be force, or power, or dominion. He would set at nought the worship of the god of his fathers, and all the usual obligations and restraints of religion; he would discard and despise all the pleadings of humanity and kindness, as if they were the weaknesses of women, and he would depend solely on force. He would, as it were, adore only the "god of force," and carry his purposes, not by right, or by the claims of religion, but by arms. The meaning is not, I apprehend, that he would formally set up this "god of forces," and adore him, but that this would be, in fact, the only god that he would practically acknowledge. In selecting such a god as would properly represent his feelings he would choose such an one as would denote force or dominion. Such a god would be the god of war, or the Roman Jupiter, who, as being supreme, and ruling the world by his mere power, would be a fit representative of the prevailing purpose of the monarch.

    The general sentiment is, that all obligations of religion, and justice, and compassion, would be disregarded, and he would carry his purposes by mere power, with the idea, perhaps, included, as seems to be implied in the remainder of the verse, that he would set up and adore such a foreign god as would be a suitable representation of this purpose. It is hardly necessary to say that this was eminently true of Antiochus Epiphanes; and it may be equally said to be true of all the great heroes and conquerors of the world. Mars, the god of war, was thus adored openly in ancient times, and the devotion of heroes and conquerors to that idol god, though less open and formal, has not been less real by the heroes and conquerors of modern times; and, as we say now of an avaricious or covetous man that he is a worshipper of mammon, though he in fact formally worships no god, and has no altar, so it might be affirmed of Antiochus, and may be of heroes and conquerors in general, that the only god that is honored is the god of war, of power, of force; and that setting at nought all the obligations of religion, and of worship of the true God, they pay their devotions to this god alone.

    Next to mammon, the god that is most adored in this world is the "god of force" - this Mauzzim that Antiochus so faithfully served. In illustration of the fact that seems here to be implied, that he would introduce such a god as would be a fit representative of this purpose of his life, it may be remarked that, when in Rome, where Antiochus spent his early years, he had learned to worship the Jupiter of the Capitol, and that he endeavored to introduce the worship of that foreign god into Syria. Of this fact there can be no doubt. It was one of the characteristics of Antiochus that he imitated the manners and customs of the Romans to a ridiculous extent (Diod. Sic. Frag, xxvi. 65); and it was a fact that he sent rich gifts to Rome in honor of the Jupiter worshipped there (Livy, lxii. 6), and that he purposed to erect a magnificent temple in honor of Jupiter Capitolinus in Antioch - Livy, xli. 20.

    This temple, however, was not completed. It will be remembered, also, that he caused an altar to Jupiter to be erected over the altar of burnt-sacrifice in Jerusalem. It should be added, that they who apply this to Anti-christ, or the Pope, refer it to idol or image worship. Elliott (Apocalypse, iv. 153) supposes that it relates to the homage paid to the saints and martyrs under the Papacy, and says that an appellation answering to the word Mahuzzim was actually given to the departed martyrs and saints under the Papal apostasy. Thus he remarks: "As to what is said of the willful king's honoring the god Mahuzzim (a god whom his fathers knew not) in place of his ancestors' god, and the true God, it seems to me to have been well and consistently explained, by a reference to those saints, and their relics and images, which the apostasy from its first development regarded and worshipped as the Mahuzzim, or fortresses of the places where they were deposited." - Apoc. iv. 157. But all this appears forced and unnatural; and if it be not supposed that it was designed to refer to Antichrist or the Papacy, no application of the language can be found so obvious and appropriate as that which supposes that it refers to Antiochus, and to his reliance on force rather than on justice and right.

    And a god whom his fathers knew not - This foreign god, Jupiter, whom he had learned to worship at Rome.

    Shall he honor with gold, and silver, and with precious stones ... - That is, he shall lavish these things on building a temple for him, or on his image. This accords with the account which Livy gives (xli. 20) of the temple which he commenced at Antioch in honor of Jupiter. Livy says that, although in his conduct he was profligate, and although in many things it was supposed that he was deranged - "Quidam hand dubie insanire aiebunt" - yet that in two respects he was distinguished for having a noble mind - for his worship of the gods, and for his favor toward cities in adorning them: "In duabus tamen magnis honestisque rebus vere regius erat animus, in urbium donis, et deorum cultu." He then adds, in words that are all the commentary which we need on the passage before us: "Magnificentiae vero in deos vel Jovis Olympii ternplum Athenis, unum in terris inchoatum pro magnitudine dei, potest testis esse. Sed et Delon aris insignibus statuarumque copia exornavit; et Antiochiae Joyis capitolini magnificum templum, non laqueatum auro tantum, sed parietibus totis lamina inauratum, et alia multa in aliis locis pollicita, quia perbreve tempus regni ejus fuit, non perfecited."

    And pleasant things - Margin, "things desired." That is, with ornaments, or statuary, or perhaps pictures. Compare the notes at Isaiah 2:16. He meant that the temple should be beautified and adorned in the highest degree. This temple, Livy says, he did not live to finish.


    Additional commentary from Barnes on the rest of the Chapter as referring to Antiochus Epiphanes IV can be read here:
    Daniel 11 Barnes' Notes

    Another brief synopsis favoring Antiochus IV throughout:
    A Comparison of the Prophecy of Daniel 11 with the History of the Greek World
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
  10. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Would not Obama have had a Muslim father, both his biological father and his step father, yet he denied the religion of both?

    There could have even been a Jewish, European link, but Obama is not constitutionally allowed to run again as President unless the laws of the American forefathers were overturned as well.
     
  11. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    This is more a priest or false prophet role. If Satan could re-incarnate Antiochus an ancient Greek king as a religious figure, Hinduism and eastern religions may be more interested in a global false prophet.
     
  12. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    This will be a Middle East ruler however, so I've never put much stock in an American political figure fulfilling the role.

    I currently believe the false prophet will be the Muslim Jesus, who is prophesied to return and endorse the Mahdi when he comes to power. The original Antiochus was a military man, so I'm not sure it would make sense to recast him into a spiritual role.

    Let me ask you, and with respect: What are the primary reasons you believe we are close to the time of Christ's return and the fulfillment of all things? I won't argue with you over it; just curious, although I may ask you another question or two.
     
  13. Stan B

    Stan B Well-Known Member

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    You left out someone very important! Esau, the progeny of Abraham and Isaac. And I fully believe the anti-christ will be an Edomite, the progeny of Esau.

    Has that ever happened before? Yep, who was king of the Jews when Jesus was born? Herod, an Edomite! Who will be ruling Jerusalem when Christ returns? Anti-christ, an Edomite!??

    Before Esau was even born, God declared “Wasn’t Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the Lord. “I loved Jacob, but Esau I hated. Malachi 1, Romans 9:13

    Guess who are Esau's descendants?? All the Muslim nations surrounding Israel. And from that, we also know where the Great Harlot is located.
     
  14. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    You raise a good point. At the same time unless this man is a Jew he cannot present himself as the *true* Messiah of the Jews, nor enter the temple. Of course, he can always pretend.
     
  15. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Revelation 13:14
    "it tells them to make an image honoring the beast that was struck by the sword but came alive again."

    Verse 3: "One of the heads of the beast appeared to have received a fatal wound, but its fatal wound was healed, and the whole earth followed after the beast in amazement."

    Daniel did not say how he died, nor does history for that matter. Seems he suffered an end like Judas going mad, perhaps throwing himself into the sea. Perhaps a sword was involved or not. We do not know.

    If however it was the same human who sacrificed a pig on the alter, a reincarnation event would be easily accepted by all without any particular ties of contention, other than the Jews would understand this false prophet was the same idiot who defiled the temple. Even in Maccabees he may have attempted reconciliation like Judas threw back the blood money, but Antiochus went mad any ways.

    The reason I feel compelled to say the Second Coming is soon, rest on the number 666 itself. It has nothing to do with any current human or event. Yes the number refers to a man's name, but not the name, the name identifies the man. I woke up one morning saying over and over, add em, adem, adam. What needs to be added about the name Adam? God punished Adam with labor and the sweat of the brow. Sweat does come out of the brow, the number 666 will come out of the brow, but why?

    Exodus 20:9
    " You have six days to labor and do all your work,"

    "Six days you shall labor, and do all your work,"

    "Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work,"

    In other words, Thou shalt labor 6 days.

    In Jesus' day the majority of labor was done from noon to evening. 6 hours. Some people would start 6 or 3 hours early. How far back in history does this daily labor go, I do not know. Exodus just sets the time at 6 days. If the norm was 6 days, and 6 hours, then only one more 6 is needed in the punishment of work given to Adam as punishment. The number is not an addition of the name. It is the number associated to a particular human, and to a name that sounds like add. Then it refers to the same punishment of work, and what this time of Satan is all about. It is the extension of work past the time God required. What time is that and why is work or no work important. Perhaps in Satan's economy labor/work is removed in exchange for this mark 666, or it just keeps track of the work Satan makes people slave over. I guess it depends on the utopia Satan sets up. One of absolute slavery, or one of social perfection where work is replaced with fun and play, as long as 666 is proudly worn in Solidarity. Who knows??

    The point is the time 6000 years. We are here at the end of this 6000 year period. In fact April 14th 30AD was the 4000 year point. But that point ended the OT and ushered in the NT. God said at that point only 2000 years are left. No it is not in the NT. the claim was it would always be soon. The church accepted the whole last 2000 years that the return will always be soon. God says that time is now. Well, 2030 would be the exact end. That does not need any Scripture reference. That is just common sense math. The punishment will not be 766, 566, but 666. Adam was the one who brought this 6000 years of work, 6 work days, and a standard 6 hour work day upon his descendants. In fact if humans work more than 6 days and 36 hours, they are being worked more by human greed, than God demanded from Adam and his descendants.

    Back to 2030 some time in April. Daniel 9:27

    27 He will make a strong covenant with leaders for one week [of years][of days]. For half of the week he will put a stop to the sacrifice and the grain offering.

    If any translation determines a time frame, why choose? It is both years and days. There is a 7 year transition between the 6000 and 7000 year periods. There is also a 7 day week, but will start and end on Sundays just like the week of April 14th in 30AD. So the Second Coming will be in the middle of this 7 year period for a few reasons. It is a harvest and it is a time of Judgments.

    Matthew 24:22 is an interesting verse:
    "Indeed, if the length of this time had not been limited, no one would survive; but for the sake of those who have been chosen, its length will be limited."

    It is a time of harvest. If all are going to be harvested, why limit it to prevent all being harvested? Is it limited so more will be saved, ie making them elect? If the whole harvest was just elected humans, then Satan would never get his way. There would never be a second half given to Satan. Jesus Himself declared that the harvest would only last the first 3.5 years. The last 3.5 would be tossed out, never to exist. So technically the trib would start in April of 2023, 7 years prior to April 2030, it would last 3.5 years, then the Second Coming Week would start the 1000 year reign of Christ.

    Enter Satan's deception. There has to be an additional 3.5 year period??? Satan may attempt a covenant with the world. But, Satan does not get the last 3.5 years. God says they do not exist, not that Satan gets them. GOD is not willing that any should Perish. The harvest could be just elect left on the earth. This is Jesus' own claim, Matthew 24:22.

    This, let's say hypothetical 3.5 year period, if it does happen shortens the last 2000 years and the 6000 years by another 3.5 years. God is not going to punish Adam, any more than Job was troubled, just because Satan says so. God made a bet with Satan, that if Satan gets this hypothetical period, then Adam's descendants get 3.5 years reduced on Adam's 6000 years. If Satan looses, we today still get the 3.5 years less, because it started in 2019, 6 months prior to April of 2020. Not even God is willing to change time that already happened.

    Since the trib started in the fall of last year, and covid19 is the only white horse army that went forth as a conqueror to conquer then God’s plan is still on schedule. Satan's 3.5 years is still hypothetical.

    The problem is the church has been programmed to look for a false Antichrist which does not exist, instead of preaching repentance and the Lord's prayer. Now is the time to pray, "Thy kingdom come, thy Will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven." Yes, that the whole world comes to repentance. The Salvation provided for all mankind by the Atonement of the Lamb of God.

    Two seals have already been opened. When the 7th Seal is opened, the rapture will have happened. The whole world, the remaining 6 billion humans will no longer have the Holy Spirit calling and sealing. It will be the OT period like Israel at Mt Sinai. This time God on the throne and the Lamb with the Lamb's book of life open, and the editing of who is sheep and who is goat.

    The harvest will remove the wheat with the tares and after fire, only the wheat remains. All that Jesus taught about his coming kingdom will happen. Yes, there is less than 3 years left, and no one knows the timetable. Yes, the Second Coming will happen. No, Satan should not find any humans left, to drag into the mid week interruption. Satan is hedging his bets, and any of the church willing to follow his idea of a false antichrist, will have the blood promised by the Prophet Ezekiel on their hands.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
  16. theophilus

    theophilus Well-Known Member

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    He will make a seven year covenant and then in the middle of that period break the covenant by entering the temple and demanding that he be worshiped. Perhaps his disregarding the god of his fathers refers to that event. When he does this both Jews and Muslims will realize they have been deceived. When Jesus returns the Jews will realize that he is the real Messiah. Perhaps Muslims will also recognize this.
     
  17. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Satan has made a 7 year deal with God. God then took away 3.5 years. The body of Christ could even thwart Satan's 3.5 years, and only the current 3.5 years will count when there is a global revival. I have been praying the Lord's prayer. Thy kingdom come, thy Will be done, in earth as it is in Heaven. God is not Willing that any should Perish, but all come to repentance, and turn to God.
     
  18. Stan B

    Stan B Well-Known Member

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    Enoch said >> unless this man is a Jew he cannot present himself as the *true* Messiah of the Jews, nor enter the temple. Of course, he can always pretend.

    He does not present himself as Messiah. He "exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God” (2 Thes. 2:3–4)

    So who is this antichrist guy? I would speculate that he is the head of an amalgamated group of Muslim nations surrounding Israel. Following the timeline, this probably follow the opening of the 1st seal, where this guy on a horse manages to conquer a whole lot of nations, holding a bow, but no arrows. So this would be a merger of a lot of Muslim nations that seek to restore the power of the Caliphate. Not likely a Jew!! :)

    But then after amalgamating these nations, they figure they have sufficient strength to accomplish the Muslim objective to take over and rule the entire world. So that happens with the 2nd seal: Wars!

    So at some point, he makes a 7 year peace treaty with Israel, but breaks the treaty after 3-1/2 years. So like his predecessor Antiochus IV Epiphanes, he simply seizes his seat in the Temple by force, declaring himself to be God.

    “He shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many” (Dan. 8:25). Our times parallel such warnings in Scripture as those who cry “peace, peace; when there is no peace” (Jeremiah 6:14), and “for when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape” (I Thes. 5:3).
     
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  19. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    One of the fundamental tenets of Orthodox Jews is their expectation of Messiah in the future. So you are incorrect in that assumption.

    Thirteen Principles of Judaism Faith
    • #12. I believe with perfect faith in the coming of Messiah* ; and although he may tarry, even though I wait every day for his coming.
    Thirteen principles of Judaism

    *As opposed to Christianity, the Jewish Messiah is not a savior. The Jewish Messiah is not a divine being. The Jewish Messiah will not come to repent us from our sins. All these ideas are dismissed and considered heresy in Judaism.

    The word "Mashiach" translates to "the anointed one," as in ancient times when new kings were anointed. Moshiach will be the anointed king at the end of days. In Judaism Mashiach will be a king who will be a descendent of King David (2 Samuel 7:12-13; Jeremiah 23:5), observant of Jewish law (Isaiah 11:2-5), a righteous judge (Jeremiah 33:15), and a great military leader.

    So you cannot say that he does not present himself as Messiah. But he will also go one step further as Paul says, and sit in the temple of God claiming that he is God. His dazzling miracles will convince the Jews.

    Indeed the Lord Jesus Christ prophesied his coming to the Jews as Messiah (John 5:43): I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
     
  20. Stan B

    Stan B Well-Known Member

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    Enoch >> quotes Orthodox Judaism: *As opposed to Christianity, the Jewish Messiah is not a savior. The Jewish Messiah is not a divine being. The Jewish Messiah will not come to repent us from our sins. All these ideas are dismissed and considered heresy in Judaism.

    That might be the teaching of Orthodox Judaism, but it was certainly not the teaching of Mamonides/Rambam in his 13 Articles.

    Mamonides held that God is not a singular being, but He was composed of a Unity, consistent with the Sh'ma:

    "Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is One."

    "Sh'ma Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Ecḥad"

    "Eloheinu" is the plural 1st person of "Elohim" which is plural of "Eloah".

    "Echad" means a "unity" or "compound unity." The Shema (Deuteronomy 6:4) literally means:

    Hear, O Israel. The LORD our God, The LORD is One compound unity.

    That definition is supported by Gen 2:24: "For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one [echad] flesh.

    In Article 2, Rambam declares, "The belief in G‑d's absolute and unparalleled UNITY."

    Ezekiel is very specific as to who might serve in the Temple. They will only be from those who meet the most rigid qualifications of select Levites.

    I remain unconvinced that antichrist will be a Jew.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
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