Why Was Cain’s Sacrifice Rejected by God?

[Lady Crosstalk]

John 1.14; Colossians 2.9, etc., speak gloriously of His incarnation; theologians speak of His hypostatic union, which is the union of the two natures, man and God at the same time.

One of the best teachings I ever heard on the hypostatic union was from a pastor who has now fallen in disgrace (Mark Driscol). Unfortunately, some of the brightest theological minds often get puffed up with their own self-importance. And disaster ensues--both for the pastor and for the church that he leads. Satan is a wily devil.

 

[farouk]

One of the best teachings I ever heard on the hypostatic union was from a pastor who has now fallen in disgrace (Mark Driscol). Unfortunately, some of the brightest theological minds often get puffed up with their own self-importance. And disaster ensues--both for the pastor and for the church that he leads. Satan is a wily devil.

I've never heard or read MB on the hypostatic union; I don't know enough about him to be honest, to comment; but I don't have any reason to doubt what you say.

The Incarnation is indeed a glorious doctrine.

 

[marks]

We know he kept sheep from Genesis, and that the sacrifice involved fat. Far more of an indication of a picture of the Lamb of God, than Cain's labours in the soil ever were.

Hi farouk,

It's like they say . . . It preaches well.

I like to keep separated that which I'm told in the text, and that which I surmise to be so.

Much love!
mark

 

[Helen]

Hi Nancy,

It looks to me this is saying that Abel had the faith to bring a better sacrifice. Whether that was better in quality or better in type, I don't see anything that says, so that's where we stop, where you did here, Cain's lack of faith.

I don't think it matters what you bring God if you aren't bringing it in faith. And if you are, you'll either bring the right thing, or you will receive God's correction, and then bring the right thing.

Much love!

Good word and spot on. Which brings it back to the heart...everything, in the end comes back to the heart.

There is a verse your post reminded me of..somewhere in Pauls writings.
It is evening and my brain is tired.

"If there is first a willing mind it was be accounted to him as righteousness."

Oh bother, that annoys me...I will have to go and look for it now!

I miss quoted it...it is =

2Cor 8 12 "For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not."

So if Cain heart and mind were crooked...the offering is unacceptable before God.

 

[farouk]

@"ByGrace" Thanks for the 'like'...

 

[farouk]

For people saying that Cain lacked real faith in God, I'm not entirely sure how you've arrived at that conclusion. In Genesis 4:6-7 God speaks directly to Cain and implores him to do right.

Hebrews 11.4 indicates that Abel's faith was honoured, but not any on the part of Cain.

 

[farouk]

I agree with those who've said it was what was in their respective hearts that determined why God accepted or did not accept their offerings.

God judges the heart and intents.

We can't see their hearts, and anything else is speculative on our part.

Hebrews 11.4 says that Abel's offering done in faith was accepted, and his faith was honoured. Cain's - the evident fruit of his labours - wasn't.

 

[charity]

Ezekiel is referred to as "son of man" over 90 times in the OT--(see Ezekiel 2:1; 3:1; 4:1; 5:1 etc.)
In Jesus' case, it probably points to His fulfilling the role spoken of by the prophet, Daniel in Daniel 7:13-14. Jesus is Prophet, Priest and King. Calling Himself, "Son of Man" also, paired with "Son of God" indicates both His fully human qualities as well as His fully divine qualities.

Hello @Lady Crosstalk,

Thank you for responding as you have.

In Numbers 29:3, the term is used in contrasting God's ways with that of man. spoken by Balaam to Balak, but with the words given to him by God Himself:-

'God is not a man, that he should lie;
neither the son of man, that he should repent:
hath He said, and shall He not do it?
or hath He spoken, and shall He not make it good?'

* It appears to be simply a means of differentiating between man and God here, and I believe that in Ezekiel it is used to differentiate between Ezekiel as a human being, and that of the angelic beings which figure so largely in his prophetic visions. So, not a title given to signify a prophet necessarily, for it is not used in relation to all the prophets, is it? Only to Ezekiel.

* The first use of these words in relation to the Lord Jesus Christ (prophetically) is in Psalm 8:4: where it is used for the same purpose, to differentiate Him as the son of man, in contrast with angels:-

'When I consider Thy heavens,
the work of Thy fingers,
the moon and the stars,
which Thou hast ordained;
What is man, that Thou art mindful of him?
and the son of man, that Thou visitest him?
For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels,
and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
Thou madest Him to have dominion over the works of Thy hands;
Thou hast put all things under His feet: ... '
(Psalm 8:3-6)

* Whenever these words, 'son of man', are used of the Lord Jesus Christ, it is always accompanied with the article, 'The' - 'The Son of Man,' as in Numbers 29:3 (above) and Psalm 8; which is never used when the words are used of man.

* This title is closely associated with Christ's dominion in the earth as Psalm 8 (above) signifies, also Hebrews 2:8,9, which man was given, but forfeited at the fall.

* This Title is specifically used of God the Son, Who was made a little lower than the angels in order to redeem.

Praise His Holy Name!

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[bbyrd009]

No offense intended but, interpreting the Bible is easy compared to interpreting what you write. What is scary is that I'm starting to understand what you write.

i guess contemplating that we kill Christ-in-us when we begin deliberately sinning is maybe a little upsetting?

 

[Harvest 1874]

Hmm, how many legions do we have in herenow?
You gotta be aware that this is just a way to claim that you are God, yes?
How many do you think might even read past this declaration/question?
I mean, don't stop on my account, ok, but yikes?

So you're suggesting that we should just make comments on someones elses post without actually reading it.

'By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain,
by which he obtained witness that he was righteous,
God testifying of his gifts:
and by it he being dead yet speaketh.'
(Hebrews 11:4)

Hello @CoreIssue

It is not speculation to believe what God said concerning Abel in the verse above, that by faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain. It is not speculation to consider the offering of Cain, in the light of this, and judge, that it was because his offering was not offered by faith that it was rejected.

* For Abel to offer an offering by faith, he had to have heard what God required, for faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. God must have spoken, even though His words are not recorded, in order for Abel to act by faith in accordance with God's known will .

* Cain, must also have heard to have brought an offering at all: the fact that it was not accepted, indicates he did not believe God, but chose an offering of his own devising. Therefore it was not a sacrifice born of faith in the known will of God, and was consequently rejected.

" This is not assumption, but deduction, based on the evidence provided in Hebrews 11:4, and the record of Genesis 4.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Even as was stated in Post #72

 

[bbyrd009]

'He removed the high places,
and brake the images,
and cut down the groves,
and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made:
for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it:
and he called it Nehushtan.'
(2 Kings 18:4)

Hi @bbyrd009,

Hezekiah, called the brasen serpent, what it was, 'a brass thing' (Nehushtan). I think I would have liked that man!

Thank you for drawing my attention to it. Though it doesn't help me to understand your original words to farouk, or tell me where in Isaiah it comes: (quote) Confronting No Son of Man may die for another's sins might go a ways to clarifying that too I guess

In Christ Jesus
Chris

hmm. No Son of Man may die for another's sins is I guess considered an archaic rendering now, but google can direct anyone to the v. But in our current climate, with the confusion over what the def of Son of Man might even be, I guess the concept of breaking up Nehushtan for oneself is the better way to go.

 

[bbyrd009]

So you're suggesting that we should just make comments on someones elses post without actually reading it.

Sorry? I'm really just asking who the "we" is there, @ "our?"

If you had read our post you would have noted we never said...

i mean don't get me wrong ok, I understand literary devices for the most part, I just don't get that one. Who is "we" there? ty

But now I'm seeing why you misunderstood, ty

 

[Harvest 1874]

Sorry? I'm really just asking who the "we" is there, @ "our?"
i mean don't get me wrong ok, I understand literary devices for the most part, I just don't get that one. Who is "we" there? ty

See Post # 100

Thus we speak in the plural form.

 

[bbyrd009]

So you say, yes

See Post # 100

Pass, but ty anyway ok

Acts 19:15 Lexicon: And the evil spirit answered and said to them, "I recognize Jesus, and I know about Paul, but who are you?"

 

[bbyrd009]

I've never heard or read MB on the hypostatic union; I don't know enough about him to be honest, to comment; but I don't have any reason to doubt what you say.

The Incarnation is indeed a glorious doctrine.

You know that you are called to become Elohim too, right

that doctrine is Nehushtan worship, wadr

 

[marks]

2Cor 8 12 "For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not."

What a great point! God wants for us to give from what we have, not what we do not have. And willingly.

Much love!

 

[charity]

Yes, but why is that a problem if Cain brought his offering in faith?

There were sacrifices specified later, in the Law, that were the fruit of the field.

It's been pointed out we don't actually know whether it was firstfuits or not.
And it's been pointed out that this was a tribute offering, not a sin offering.
And of course it can't be pointed to where there was some instruction given on what to bring, though there could have been, but we don't know.

So isn't all else purely speculation?

Much love!
Mark

'Now faith is the substance of things hoped for,
the evidence of things not seen.'
(Heb 11:1)

Faith in what. @Mark? Faith is not a nebulous thing, it has substance, doesn't it? So what was the basis of Abel's faith, that made his offering acceptable: and if, as you conjecture, Cain's offering was also offered by faith, what was the substance of it, if his offering was not acceptable to God.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[marks]

@bbyrd009,

I looked.

We are one body in Christ, there are no individuals. Just as wine is obtained at the expense of the life of the grapes, the grapes being crushed losing their individuality so too we in order to be joined to the body of Christ must be willing to sacrifice our lives and lose our individuality that we might be joined to the body of Christ. There is only one head.

If I understand correctly, @Harvest 1874 speaks for us all.

Much love!
mark

 

[Dave L]

Here's another look at why God rejected Cain's offering. Faith is proof God paid for a person's sin on the cross. Remember, Jesus is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. So anything Abel did in faith was atoned for by Christ and made acceptable. Cain not being among the number, had the soil of human hands and an a sin stained unregenerate heart as his only grounds of acceptance with God. This depends on Limited Atonement but I believe this true.

 

[bbyrd009]

@bbyrd009,

I looked.

sorry, this is too apropos of nothing for me to follow?
You looked, at what? You looked, and?

If I understand correctly, @Harvest 1874 speaks for us all.

Much love!
mark

hey, it's a given that you do not understand correctly, right, so there you go, all done, right. All are deceived

he doesn't speak for me, ok, no offense meant to your Legion though, nor your friend. Maybe he speaks for all those singing When We All Get to Heaven? But wadr we have Chosen Ones come through here about twice a week?

I mean how does that strike you as humble, in the least?