Alethos
New Member
Jesus was also tempted by these three types of temptations, and in doing so he can empathize with our weaknesses. (heb 4:15) This is the reason that Holy Spirit led the Son of God out into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. And if I believe that Satan tempted Jesus, then I believe that Satan can and does tempt men. That is not to say that I believe every temptation is from the devil, it's not, I am just saying that I believe it to be possible.
You would have me believe that Jesus is arguing with himself? That quoted scripture to himself to tempt himself to sin then he answered himself by quoting more scripture? That he is asked himself to worship ... himself? Then rebuked himself and told himself to leave.. himself? And then He left himself?
Do I got that right? Can you understand why I have such a hard time understanding your interpretation when it comes to scriptures like these? Your personification explanation breaks down, so you have to end up saying that the scriptures isn't saying what it is saying. Don't you see that in holding so tightly to your interpretation, you commit the exact same thing that you accuse the others doing when you say they ... how did you put it... plaster 'devil' quotes all over the place and think that it means supernatural devils.
So which is it? Did his sin nature transport him, are the scriptures lying, or did a supernatural being transported him?
Joshua,
I can see the issue is the understanding of how a man is tempted.
Jame1:13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;
Meaning God will not enter a person to tempt them, He would not do this Himself ,nor would he allow anything elsee for that matter. What follows is very important...
[sup]14[/sup] but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. [sup]15[/sup] Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
So lets break this down like this...
Jesus is tempted when he is dragged away by his own evil desire and enticed. After desire has conceived (Jesus never allowed his carnal mind to conceive his innate evil thoughts). Remember he was tempted in all points as you and I BUT found without sin. The Temptation of Jesus Must be in his mind, because that is where the battle was fought and won. His thoughts to do wrong never conceived, or gave birth, therefore sin did not eventuate in him therefore the grave could not hold him because he didn’t earn the wages of sin which is death.
Whatever the adversary was???? Whether an external person provoking him to imagine such things, or in his mind. The temptation had to be important to him and relative to his personal situation. A temptation cannot be a temptation if the desire is not in the person!!!!
Remember he was in the wilderness 40 days without food just having rec the Holy Spirit and His Father required His son to be tempted in all points like as we are. Jesus needed to go through the exact same process of temptation as we do.
So lets take this a step further.
[sup]Matt 15:11[/sup]it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but it is what comes out of the mouth (mind) that defiles.’
Jesus goes onto explain the source of sin and the process of temptation.
[sup]18[/sup]But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart (or mind), and this is what defiles. [sup]19[/sup]For out of the heart (mind) come evil intentions, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. [sup]20[/sup]These are what defile a person, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile.’
Notice Jesus is speaking about thoughts BUT when he goes to list the workings of the fleshly (carnal mind) he JUMPS to actions. MURDER, ADULTERY, FORNICATION, THEFT etc.
The question is WHY? the answer is Jesus understood that sin begin with what? ____________
Yes you got it? A THOUGHT!!! It only take one evil thought to produce MURDER, ADULTERY, TURNING STONE INTO BREAD and so on!
Whether we agree of disagree on the Supernatural being he has no bearing on temptation, at all, WHY? because out of the heart, in the heart, the heart, the carnal mind, the fleshly mind, the animal serpent mind is the devil, false accuser and the sole manifestation of evil in the Bible.
It has never been attributed to an external source!!! AND I MEAN NEVER
understand these above teachings and then you can set a more positive course to find in each of your quotes the true adversary / false accuser.
Here another example:
John 8:42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. [sup]43[/sup] Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.
Why could the Pharisees not hear ( BECUASE SNAKES DONT HAVE EARS!!!) watch what happens next.
[sup]44[/sup] You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires.
Ah so your father is not earthly Abraham who listen to God and understood his will, no your father was a liar from the beginning.
What lied from the beginning = Serpent who had a carnal mind and could speak. So they are doing exactly what their father (in mind) is was doing back then.
He was a murdered from the begging? How? Well what was the first sin after they lef the garden? Cain slew (murdered) his brother Able (How) [sup]19[/sup]For out of the heart (mind) come evil intentions, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander.
He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language (why because he hasn’t got the mind of Christ/God dwelling in him), for he (serpent) is a liar and the father of lies. [sup]45[/sup] Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! [sup]46[/sup] Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? [sup]47[/sup] Whoever belongs to God hears (words entering the mind) what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
No they belong to the animal race and thier end will be everlasting death!
How does Jesus in John 8 describe the Pharisees.
Verse 14 - But you (devil, Satan, Serpent, False accusers, slanders) have no idea where I come from or where I am going. [sup]15[/sup] You judge (wrong mind) by human standards; I pass judgment on no one.
They judge with fleshly thinking!!!
“You are from below (meaning in the earth where their thinking is - corruptable thinking) ; I am from above (Heavenly mind). You are of this world; I am not of this world. [sup]24[/sup] I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”
The temptation of Jesus Christ regardless of how you twist the Scriptures will always be internal, will always be revealed and the great battle between flesh and spirit...not some make believe supernatual being!
Sorry in advance for being so passionate.
I am so convinced of this truth it hurts.
Alethos