Why would the Creature Await in Earnest Expectation?

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Hezekiah

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Rom_8:19


For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Why? If all the sons of God are going to do is throw them into a lake of fire?
 

tim_from_pa

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Rom_8:19


For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Why? If all the sons of God are going to do is throw them into a lake of fire?

I'm not sure where you get that idea. The purpose of the church is to rule and reign with Christ over this world. In the millennium, and even afterwards in the new heaven and new earth all of creation will be restored, and will not happen until this time. The creation is fallen because of Adam, but will be restored again when mankind and all of nature becomes what God originally intended thru the last Adam, Christ. So, we must not limit the idea of redemption to that of mankind only.

I have a personal belief (that one does not hear being taught). Any animal that sleeps and wakes again in this life (or in some case with insects with the idea of metamorphasis like the butterfly) will be resurrected. Some creatures, however, were created because of sin, e.g. maggots and flies whose purpose is to devour remains. Also, one can reason that the behavior of animals changed during the fall, such as becoming meat eaters and what we consider disgusting now may have a change in character later. Animals are in this physical world to humans as what angels are to God. The dividing line is not so clear in the age to come, when men experience apotheosis. Likewise, we can think of animals taking the role of "angels" so-to-speak. This physical realm mirrors the deeper spiritual realm and indeed are merely varying forms of reality.
 

Hezekiah

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I'm not sure where you get that idea. The purpose of the church is to rule and reign with Christ over this world. In the millennium, and even afterwards in the new heaven and new earth all of creation will be restored, and will not happen until this time. The creation is fallen because of Adam, but will be restored again when mankind and all of nature becomes what God originally intended thru the last Adam, Christ. So, we must not limit the idea of redemption to that of mankind only.

I have a personal belief (that one does not hear being taught). Any animal that sleeps and wakes again in this life (or in some case with insects with the idea of metamorphasis like the butterfly) will be resurrected. Some creatures, however, were created because of sin, e.g. maggots and flies whose purpose is to devour remains. Also, one can reason that the behavior of animals changed during the fall, such as becoming meat eaters and what we consider disgusting now may have a change in character later. Animals are in this physical world to humans as what angels are to God. The dividing line is not so clear in the age to come, when men experience apotheosis. Likewise, we can think of animals taking the role of "angels" so-to-speak. This physical realm mirrors the deeper spiritual realm and indeed are merely varying forms of reality.

Refreshing indeed. Someone who has read the Bible with his eyes open. God bless you.
Most who claim to be of the election have no earthly idea as to why they were saved. Most think they are just going to wing it off to some mansion in heaven and laze around eat grapes, play harps, and sing hymns all day.
 

tim_from_pa

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Refreshing indeed. Someone who has read the Bible with his eyes open. God bless you.
Most who claim to be of the election have no earthly idea as to why they were saved. Most think they are just going to wing it off to some mansion in heaven and laze around eat grapes, play harps, and sing hymns all day.

Thanks. Yeah, the idea of "dying and going to heaven" is pagan. A lot of those ideas got mixed in with Christianity. I believe Yahweh wrote his word such that it could be interpretted to sound that way even in the pagan concept to separate wheat from chaff so-to-speak. In other words, the bible becomes to anyone what they want it to be; a signature of an ingeneous author despite there being only one truth.
 

John_8:32

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Thanks. Yeah, the idea of "dying and going to heaven" is pagan. A lot of those ideas got mixed in with Christianity. I believe Yahweh wrote his word such that it could be interpretted to sound that way even in the pagan concept to separate wheat from chaff so-to-speak. In other words, the bible becomes to anyone what they want it to be; a signature of an ingeneous author despite there being only one truth.

Yes, Tim is exactly correct here...

Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

There is a miracle that must occur to understand the scripture...

Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

 

MTPockets

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Rom_8:19


For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Why? If all the sons of God are going to do is throw them into a lake of fire?

The 'New Revised Standard' version correctly states this verse as follows:
"For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the children of God".
 

Spirit Covenant

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Rom_8:19


For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Why? If all the sons of God are going to do is throw them into a lake of fire?

Because they don't know who they are. Some of them think they are Christians. Others don't believe in any of it anyway and still don't know who or what they are.






.
 

Hezekiah

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The 'New Revised Standard' version correctly states this verse as follows:
"For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the children of God".

Is not the creature the primary portion of the creation? I see little difference.

Because they don't know who they are. Some of them think they are Christians. Others don't believe in any of it anyway and still don't know who or what they are.






.

Justification for the Christ speaking in parabbles.
 

MTPockets

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Is not the creature the primary portion of the creation? I see little difference.

Hi! 'Hezekiah'
Well, not exactly. There is something more than a mere "little difference" to intent of the verse.
Ummm, at the risk of boring you half to death, the only way I know how to properly explain it to you is rather lengthy. Sorry 'bout that.

Romans 8:19: "For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God". Not only are we, God's children, subjected to the influence of the evil powers, the entire creation is subjected to them. But the creation does not possess the spiritual defense which the sons of God have, The sons of God are "saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us", (Luke 1:71), and have become freed from the powers of darkness and decay. The Word of God gives us the grace and strength to resist them,
This is a portion of every Christian's spiritual development while they are on their way to attaining "mature manhood".

The word used for 'creation' here can also be found in Mark 16:15 and Colossians 1:23, where it is applicable to mankind first of all. The entire creation waits for salvation.

Because of the conjunction 'for' which joins this verse to the previous, it can be said that a clear revelation of the great glory of the sons of God consists in their doing the works Jesus did, namely works of salvation, deliverance and healing. Therefore, it is clear that the restoration of mankind and of the rest of creation will not be accomplished by children but by revealed sons. The sons of God will be revealed or 'uncovered', and the people will see what is in them, and the world will marvel, (2 Thess 1:10).

The word 'revealing' (apocalypse) causes us to think about a flower bud which opens up. Until now, the creation has had to wait. This is because there has not yet appeared Spirit filled Christians who have been fully conformed to the image of Jesus. Frankly, If there were a village or a town full of sons of God, the powers that oppress creation would have to yield there even in this very day.

The word 'sons' indicates of a process of growth and maturing. In Acts 13:10 Paul used the word 'son' when he speaks to Elymas the magician. The apostle was filled with the Holy Spirit and discerned the opposing power when he said: "You son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, full of all deceit and villainy". Not surprisingly too, in the parable of the weeds in the field the Lord calls the good seed literally the sons of the Kingdom, and the bad seed the sons of the Evil One, (Matt 13:38).

So, the question we must all answer for ourselves is: How will a child of God reach spiritual maturity?
The promise is: "With the temptation He will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it", (1 Cor 10:13).
During the temptation the power of the Holy Spirit will increase in the child of God to that degree that he becomes stronger and matures to be a conqueror. After all, that's the reason why the great tribulation in the latter days will be preceded by the sealing of the servants of God, (Rev 7:3). In this way the people of God will grow and be able to stand against the oppression. The greater the suffering, the greater the victory and the more man will become conformed to the image of Christ. This is the advancement every Christian enjoys during their struggle to attain the purposes and intents of God for themselves.

In the endtime the sons of perdition, those who are filled with the spirit of anti-Christ, will be opposed by the sons of God who are filled with the Holy Spirit. In the battle of Armageddon, the sons of God will triumph over the armies of anti-Christ in the heavenly places. During the Millennium, the sons of God will lead the creation to salvation. And finally, on the new earth, they will bring to complete fullness all the righteous who remained hungry and thirsty for righteousness without being satisfied, for "the leaves of the trees are for the healing of the nations". It is the spiritual gifts in the sons of God which will heal the nations, (Rev 22:2), so that God will become everything to everyone.

"For the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will but by the will of him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and obtain the glorious liberty of the children of God", (Romans 8:20,21). Futility is senselessness, lawlessness, delinquency, instability and emptiness.

The creation is unable to function correctly because of the will of him who subjected it to this futility, that is, of Adam.
Because the first man, as head of the creation, had obeyed the Evil One, he became a slave of the one he obeys. Adam subjected himself and relinquished the kingship.This is why the devil is now called the ruler of this world. It says in Genesis 3:17 that the earth is cursed because of man.

Yet, the will of God for man and for His creation is that which is good and acceptable and perfect, (Romans 12:2). Clearly, the creation was not subjected to futility of its own will because it hopes for deliverance. Creation does not accept sin, suffering and decay. It does not resign to these things. The creation does not accept as normal that which is lawless. On the contrary, it looks for deliverance and restoration. Every person and everything that has been set free by the sons of God will be truly free. This deliverance explicitly means to say that the creation will returned to a goodness once the powers of evil have been removed and the injuries healed.

Thus the Psalmist says, and Jesus repeats, that out of the mouth of babes and suckling God brings perfect praise even today. That means that their inner person is still good, for what comes from their mouth glorifies God. Wherever the sons of God are revealed, they will consecrate their children to keep them separated from evil, that the evil one will not be able to make the little ones their victims; that the green grass will not be burned, (Rev 9:4).

The creation is subjected to decay, which means that everything visible is transient and perishable. The word 'decay' may also mean: corruption, degeneration, destruction or annihilation. Instead of fully revealing the glory of God, the creation is often subjected to powers of decay.

The time is coming when the meek will inherit the earth. The meek are those who are who entrust themselves fully to the guidance of God's Spirit. They are the peacemakers of whom the Lord said: "They shall be called sons of God", (Matt 5:9). They will remove enmity from the entire creation and give it true peace. Then it will be fulfilled, "They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea", (Isaiah 11:9).

"We know that the whole creation has been groaning in travail together until now", (Romans 8:22).
Observation of natural life teaches us that every creature is injured and damaged. The creation groans and is in travail under the merciless dictatorship of the lawless ruler of this world who disrupts nature. The creation is subjected, but the word of God promises that the sons of God will go round doing well and healing all who are oppressed, just as the Son of God did, for God will be with them ,(Acts 10:38).

The groaning of creation is an illustration of the pangs of birth which will precede the reborn and restored creation. The word 'travail' indicates that the creation seeks to be set free, that it wants to produce something which is good. Its struggle against suffering, sickness, pain and death shows us that these things do not belong to the nature of creation. Forces from outside itself have burdened it with this yoke of slavery. Suffering and pain are from the evil one and never come from God.

The whole creation groans and is in travail, no part is excluded from the common suffering. The suffering covers the entire creation, inward as well as outward, in soul, spirit and body. "And not only the creation; but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies", (Romans 8:23). In the struggle against the ruling powers, the human spirit lacks sufficient defense, and the rest of creation is entirely incapable of defending itself. However, the plan of God provides the faithful the Holy Spirit to enable it to conquer by His strength. The 'first fruit' means that the faithful of Jesus Christ which is baptized in the Holy Spirit is the first to reveal the grace, the lawfulness, the peace, the righteousness and the joy of the Kingdom of God in the midst of the overpowered creation.

As James wrote, "Of his own will He brought us forth by the word of truth that we should be a kind of first fruits of his creatures", (James 1:18). But despite this wonderful beginning, we too groan from within our inner man, for we have not yet brought forth the completion of our salvation nor the full fruit of the Holy Spirit. After all, we become an entirely new creation only when all our spirit, soul and body prove to be mature, perfect and inviolable.

So it is that the climax of our regeneration is the functioning of our spiritual body in the visible world at the return of the Lord. After the inner man, we already strive for perfection and inviolability so that we might be able to say with the Lord, "The ruler of this world is coming; he has no power over me", (finds nothing in me), (John 14:30).

But we have a mortal body which is subject to decay and look forward to an immortal body. Only then will we be fully delivered from the influence of the ruler of this world and from the realm of darkness. This is confident hope. We expect the full inheritance of that which we now have as guarantee in the Holy Spirit who enables us to live and function as first fruits.

We, the children of God, groan because we are constantly under the attack of the evil powers when we serve God. The serpent keeps bruising our heel to prevent us from making progress. In 2Cor 11:23-29 Paul describes a number of his tribulations. Regardless, he expresses his hope with these words, "Here indeed we groan, and long to put on our heavenly dwelling, so that by putting it on we may not be found naked", (2 Cor 5:2).

The word 'adoption' in this verse indicates the liberation of a slave who is adopted as a son, as it says, "You are no longer a slave but a son", (Gal 4:7). After their inner man, all who are led by the Holy Spirit are sons of God already. Once they were slaves to the powers of darkness, but now they have been redeemed that they might receive the right of adoption as sons, (Gal 4:5).

So we see there is a process of growth and development of which it says: "We are God's children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he, (or, -it-), appears we shall be like Him", (1 John 3:2). When this sonship becomes revealed before men, angels and the entire creation, we will be like the glorified Son of God.

"For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience", (Romans 8:24,25). When we receive the Lord we make the first step on the way of salvation. The final purpose of our salvation is maturity in spirit, soul and body. What we do not yet have, we hope to receive afterwards. Certain translations render it as: "For to this hope we were saved', or: "We are saved for our hope".

So it is a salvation for everything that the gospel promises and which we expect in faith. God gives a promise of total restoration; we accept the promise in faith, and the hope is the bridge between what we have and that which we still are to receive. When that what we hope for has come about, the hope disappears. We hope for what we do not see and have not yet experienced.

The tribulations befalling us try to rob us of the vision of a wonderful future. If we do not let go of our hope even then we prove to have patience. In chapter 5:3 we read, "'We rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance". But we will only be able to rejoice if we do not lose sight of the expected future and the realization of God's promises.

So patience or perseverance is the pillar on which our hope rests. When somebody's faith collapses in tribulation, his hope disappears and his vision is lost. If the faithful of God persevere in faith in the promises of God and keeps hoping for their realization, it stays alive, for hope gives life. When it drops, the hope the faithful will fall away and become a spiritual ruin, a dead church, because "We are his house if we hold fast our confidence and pride on our hope", (Heb 3:6). It is only by the full assurance of hope until the end that we can realize the promise, (Heb 6:11).
 

Hezekiah

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MTPOCKETS,

My own take on this is that the unsaved creature awaits the manisfestation of the sons of God for it is in their manisfestation that lies the unsaved man's hope.
The resurrected saints will become the judges, priests, kings, who will bring the world at large to salvation and righteousness.
 

tim_from_pa

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MTPOCKETS,

My own take on this is that the unsaved creature awaits the manisfestation of the sons of God for it is in their manisfestation that lies the unsaved man's hope.
The resurrected saints will become the judges, priests, kings, who will bring the world at large to salvation and righteousness.

Just to second what you said, that's my take on it, too. Not to mention I did not have to read as much with your post, either. :lol:
 

veteran

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God proclaimed He will bring literal physical changes upon this earth in the future; that's the actual subject Paul was talking about there in Romans 8 in conjunction with the redemption of the sons of God.

Rom 8:19-25
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him Who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.


God placed the 'creation' into a state of vanity and bondage, just as we are, waiting for the redemption by Christ Jesus at His coming. Question: just when... did God place the creation in a state of vanity? also, since He put it in bondage, it means prior to that His creation was not in that kind of vain state. What caused Him to do that? This is actually how deep and profound Apostle Paul is going with this subject in Rom.8. Many still struggle with trying to understand it.


Rom.8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
(KJV)
 

afaithfulone4u

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Hezekiah said:
Rom_8:19


For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Why? If all the sons of God are going to do is throw them into a lake of fire?
For that is how the angels are created.
If we are being transformed by the renewing of our minds to become as angels... then all angels must have began as us.
Six days we work to plant and one day we rest the land. Hence the 6 thousand years we work the fields and on the 7th or millinial 1,000 yrs/1 day to God we shall allow the earth to rest to get ready for the new planting season.
We, are the harvest, we are the wheat, figs, grapes, trees etc... in God's garden and as long as the earth remains it will always be seedtime and harvest ,meaning 6,000 yrs/6 days of Gods and 7th year resting the soil just as our week of seven days. That is where we get that from.

Gen 8:22
22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
KJV

Solomon said that there is nothing new under the sun, that everything that is, has already been before.

Eccl 1:9-12
9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.
12 I the Preacher was king over Israel in Jerusalem.
KJV

Rom 8:19-22
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
KJV
Luke 20:34-36
34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
KJV
While I understand that we are children of God or the offspring of Satan by the Spirit or spirit we are of. I do believe that ministers or all royalty and governments are angels being ministers of God rather they realize it or not. I say this because the Bible says that the laws were added to the 10 commandments by angels, yet we understand that governments set laws upon laws and it says that all authorities are ordained and ministers of God and ministers are a flames of fire.
Heb 1:6-7
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
KJV
Rom 13:1-6
13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
KJV


We are now before the foundation of the new earth to come being trained up to rule and reign in the new earth to come as kings and priests of God and His Christ/Word.
 

logabe

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Hezekiah said:
Rom_8:19


For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Why? If all the sons of God are going to do is throw them into a lake of fire?
It will be a great advantage for the creation because the Sons will be used to restore the
whole creation that Adam lost in the garden. Most christians don't understand the plan of
of God. They think they will go to heaven and sit on a cloud for eternity. But God has other
plans for them that He created before the world was.

These manifested Sons of God will be responsible for restoring the creation by teaching the
nations the character and nature of God (Isa. 2:2-4). The manifestation will be the beginning
of the restoration of all things (Acts 3:21).

What you do now determines where you will be in the future. If you become a mature Son
of God you will qualify for the First Resurrection and God will choose you. But, if you don't
become mature, God will raise you in the general resurrection a thousand years later (Rev.
20:4-5).

Read Phil. 3:10-14, where Paul is telling us that he might attain to that out resurrection, which
is, the First Resurrection. Notice what he says, "not as though I have already attained". He was
not talking about his salvation, but he was talking about a better resurrection as explained in
Rev. 20:5. Also, in the faith chapter, Hebrews 11:35 says,

35 Women received back their dead by resurrection ; and others
were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might
obtain a better resurrection ;

They did all those exploits for one thing, "A Better Resurrection".

I am encouraged because I have read the post on this particular subject and many christians
are beginning to see what God is doing. I can remember a few years back, I didn't see anyone
posting this way and they thought I had lost my mind because I was posting it. So I believe God
is allowing the "Spirit of Truth" to go forth and accomplish a quick work by giving us eyes to see
and a heart to understand.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe
 

Webers_Home

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†. 2Pet 3:16 . . Some of Paul's comments are hard to understand, and those
who are untaught and vacillating have twisted his letters around to mean
something quite different from what he meant, just as they do the other
parts of Scripture-- and the result is disaster for them.

Peter was one of Christ's hand-picked apostles to whom the promise below
was made.

†. John 16:13 . . When he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into
all truth.

So when a Spirit-guided apostle like Peter finds Paul's writings difficult to
understand, then it's to be expected that ordinary rank and file pew
warmers would have even more difficulty. Since there is no consensus even
among the best and the brightest actual theologians how best to interpret
Rom 8:18-22; then I fear that anything any of us self-made theologians
have to say about it is just going to be guess-work, sophistry, and bee-ess.

To begin with, the ancient Greek word translated "creature" is ambiguous;
viz: ktisis has more than one meaning; and picking the correct one, and then
applying it properly, is a challenge all by itself.

Well; anyway, I for one, seriously doubt that the entire cosmos as a whole--
with all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --has either feelings or thoughts
about anything nearly as abstract as its future.

The Lakota people's evaluation of early-day encroaching White men is
interesting. They noticed, back in the 1700's and 1800's, that the White
man's mind is seldom on the present; but instead his mind always seems to
be on the future. The ancient Lakota were a people of nature; while White
men are a people of industry-- nature lets things happen, while industry
forces things to happen; and that's why I seriously doubt that nature is
consciously anticipating anything at all; let alone something as out of the
ordinary as future events like the unveiling of the sons of God, and
reconstruction of the cosmos.

Buen Camino
/
 

logabe

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Webers_Home said:
.
†. 2Pet 3:16 . . Some of Paul's comments are hard to understand, and those
who are untaught and vacillating have twisted his letters around to mean
something quite different from what he meant, just as they do the other
parts of Scripture-- and the result is disaster for them.

Peter was one of Christ's hand-picked apostles to whom the promise below
was made.

†. John 16:13 . . When he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into
all truth.

So when a Spirit-guided apostle like Peter finds Paul's writings difficult to
understand, then it's to be expected that ordinary rank and file pew
warmers would have even more difficulty. Since there is no consensus even
among the best and the brightest actual theologians how best to interpret
Rom 8:18-22; then I fear that anything any of us self-made theologians
have to say about it is just going to be guess-work, sophistry, and bee-ess.

To begin with, the ancient Greek word translated "creature" is ambiguous;
viz: ktisis has more than one meaning; and picking the correct one, and then
applying it properly, is a challenge all by itself.

Well; anyway, I for one, seriously doubt that the entire cosmos as a whole--
with all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --has either feelings or thoughts
about anything nearly as abstract as its future.

The Lakota people's evaluation of early-day encroaching White men is
interesting. They noticed, back in the 1700's and 1800's, that the White
man's mind is seldom on the present; but instead his mind always seems to
be on the future. The ancient Lakota were a people of nature; while White
men are a people of industry-- nature lets things happen, while industry
forces things to happen; and that's why I seriously doubt that nature is
consciously anticipating anything at all; let alone something as out of the
ordinary as future events like the unveiling of the sons of God, and
reconstruction of the cosmos.

Buen Camino
/
This is about our HOPE. The next great manifestation will be when the
Sons put on immortality. We will have life and have it more abundantly.
We haven't seen it yet, but by faith we know that it is going to come to
pass. We can't take this lightly because God will be releasing the "Whole
Creation", that has been in bondage since the fall of Adam.

After Paul spoke about this manifestation, he told us we are saved by
HOPE.

24 For in hope we have been saved, but hope that
is seen is not hope ; for who hopes for what he
already sees ?
25 But if we hope for what we do not see, with
perseverance we wait eagerly for it.

My point is, every Christian should be waiting for this great event to take
place and not only them, but also the whole world. God has a plan for
everyone that has been created. Isn't that what Paul is saying in verse 22?

We must ask God to help us understand His Plan so we can have HOPE in
our future. We are saved by HOPE, but if we don't believe that one day the
Sons will establish the Kingdom upon this earth, then you have no hope. Do
we believe God knows what He is doing?

In all of Israel's rebellion God never forgot His people. He still has a plan to
save everyone of them in Rom. 11:26. Do you think God who bought all of
the world would leave us in bondage and not have a plan that includes all of
His Creation.

Hezekiah ask a very good question @ the beginning of this post.

Why? If all the Sons of God are going to do is throw them into a Lake of Fire.

Why? It makes no sense. I don't know about you, but I have love ones that
have already died and they didn't accept Jesus as their Savior. Does God have
a plan for them. According to Paul He does. Rom. 8:21 says,

21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its
slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of
the children of God.

Ok, so we have to ask ourselves who is the creation? Is it everything God created
or is it just some things he created. Paul said in Col. 1:16-20,

16 For by Him all things were created, both in the
heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether
thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities -all
things have been created through Him and for Him.
20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself,
having made peace through the blood of His cross ;
through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things
in heaven.

It sounds like good news to me. That's where my Hope stands in the words of
Paul through the Spirit of God revealing His Plan for all of Creation. Do you have
Hope that God will correct your love ones in the future? If not, read over the
words that Paul has given us and ask God to give you the understanding.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe