WHY?

[marksman]

We could ask the question 'why?' to any number of doctrines pertaining to those so called 44,000 denominations.

But I am not asking about other doctrines. I am asking about baptism. That is enough to upset the apple cart without worrying about all the other doctrines.

 

[marksman]

I'm not convinced however there are 44,000 denominations.

When you search for the facts amazing what you learn.

 

[marksman]

As I expected, the replies are full of red herrings and suggestions that I don't know what I am talking about so let me expand things. I NEVER comment about anything unless I have done copious amounts of study on the subject, sometimes over a period of 20 years. I consult with theologians who I trust and know a lot more than I do. From that consensus and reading of my own that opens up the topic to a fuller understanding, enables me to say what I say. And that is the reason why I am confident in what I say so making trite comments is water of a ducks back for me. Unless you have evidence other than quoting a verse out of context or telling me what I already know, you are wasting my time and yours.

 

[Patrick1966]

If you say so

I'm just repeating what Jesus said in the Great Commandment. Am I wrong?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Last week I read that there were 44,000 denominations. That in itself must make God cry. But that is not the subject of this post. What I want to ask is WHY most of them ignore the teaching of baptism and impose their own interpretation.

I will start with what happened at Pentecost where it says in Acts 2 v 38, Then Peter said to them "Repent and let everyone of you be baptized in the NAME OF JESUS CHRIST for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus baptism Matthew 3 V 16. and when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water and behold, the heavens were open to him.

John 3 v 23. John was also baptizing at Aenon near Salim because water was plentiful there

Matthew 28 v 19. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 8 v 36 And as they were going along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said "See here is water! What prevents me from being baptized? And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down INTO the water, Phillip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.

Acts 10 v 48. And he commanded them to be baptized in the NAME OF JESUS CHRIST.

Romans 6 V 3. Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized INTO CHRIST JESUS were baptized into his death?

Galatians 3 v 27. For as many as you were baptized INTO CHRIST have put on Christ.

Matthew 3 v 6. And they were baptized by him in the River Jordan, confessing their sins.

In the New Testament, baptism was in the name or into the name of Jesus, always by immersion, always when there was plenty of water available.

Only ONCE are we told to baptize in the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit. and as we know we never make a doctrine out of one verse of scripture. Therefore the overwhelming evidence is that you baptize by immersion in the name of Jesus or Jesus Christ. One final point nowhere in scripture do you baptize a baby by sprinkling water over its head.

So the question is why do we ignore the scripture on this subject and replace it with our own version?





.

I don;t think their is a baptism issue.

I think there is a why we get baptized issue.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Its also a word issue

Baptize, Baptism, Baptist are not native english words.

Each are transliterated from their perspective greek word

Baptizo became Baptize
Baptizmo became Baptism

etc etc

So we have taken a foreign word. and made a different interpretation of what the word actually means.

 

[marksman]

I don;t think their is a baptism issue.

I think there is a why we get baptized issue.

Of course there is no issue if you ignore scripture.

 

[marksman]

I'm just repeating what Jesus said in the Great Commandment. Am I wrong?

Rather a childish response.

 

[marksman]

I have heard many people say that baptism is not important as it does not determine our salvation in any way shape or form. They say they can be a Christian without being baptized. I ask the question, can you?

i see repentance as getting rid of the old man and baptism as putting on the new. It is our way of agreeing with God that his way is the only way.

If it is of no account, why did Jesus insist on being baptized and why did Peter say on the day of Pentecost repent and be baptized. Until those questions are answered adequately the need for baptism is obvious.

 

[Enoch111]

As I expected, the replies are full of red herrings and suggestions that I don't know what I am talking about so let me expand things.

Let's face it. You disagree with the majority of Christians as to whose name should be used for baptism. The general consensus AS WELL AS TESTIMONY FROM THE 2ND CENTURY proves that you are off base. No one will change your mind, and you will not change anyone's mind.

The words of Christ have final and absolute authority. The only way to interpret what is found in Acts is that it was an abbreviation of what Christ had stated. But the important point that you have totally missed in that the triune Godhead is involved in Christian baptism. Not just Jesus.

 

[amigo de christo]

Are you talking about Christian denominations?

You can ask a million Christians a bunch of questions about what they believe and you'll likely get a million different responses. What's important is that they believe in Jesus, obey his commandments, and love one another.

Rather odd but probably true indeed . And yet me and a few others read the bible daily and our answers seem to agree .
The problem is most denominations are indeed preaching concepts and doctrines of men .
THIS IS WHY so many cannot agree . But lambs , lambs can come to the simple knowledge of the truth .
I have noticed that those who love to read the bible seem to come together and they agree on most everything .
I have an idea . WHY NOT start over from scratch in every single denomination . TEACH N PREACH ONLY THE BIBLE
not what men have taught , but ONLY the bible . AND i sure bet lots of folks would eventually agree on much of all things
taught . but so long as we have men in positoins who truly have no love of scripture but rather
what others have taught them and so on and so forth . IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN .
ME thinks its time for many to stop believing the lie that the bible is a book we just cant understand
without greek scholars or so called apostels to teach us . Cause them so called apostles sure seemed to teach wrong things .
And their greek seems to alway justify THEIR POINT and not the TRUTH . jus saying .

 

[Brakelite]

We could ask why of any religious person.


Why does a supreme power require worship and our concession, obedience, to rules we're told they set down in order to reiterate their dominion and sovereignty?

Why are we told we need follow the rules in any holy book in order to please what we're told inspired its writing so that we know it is there?

​

John 4:24 ►

​

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Are you seriously asking these questions, or are they rhetorical? If you want answers, I'm happy to oblige, but only if you are serious.

 

[Brakelite]

in order to reiterate their dominion and sovereignty?

You believe that's why God requires worship? To validate His own existence? If so, you do not know God nor understand His basic character.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Are you seriously asking these questions, or are they rhetorical? If you want answers, I'm happy to oblige, but only if you are serious.

Rhetorical .

However, if you want to treat them as serious I think that would be a fascinating addition to this discussion.

 

[Brakelite]

But I am not asking about other doctrines. I am asking about baptism. That is enough to upset the apple cart without worrying about all the other doctrines.

Yes, a journey of a million miles starts with one step.

 

[Brakelite]

Let's face it. You disagree with the majority of Christians as to whose name should be used for baptism. The general consensus AS WELL AS TESTIMONY FROM THE 2ND CENTURY proves that you are off base. No one will change your mind, and you will not change anyone's mind.

The words of Christ have final and absolute authority. The only way to interpret what is found in Acts is that it was an abbreviation of what Christ had stated. But the important point that you have totally missed in that the triune Godhead is involved in Christian baptism. Not just Jesus.

Enoch, you surprise me sometimes. One minute your doctrine is spot on, next minute you are trying on consensus and tradition, sounding more Catholic than evangelical. As Marksman said, the NT, including testimony from the book of Acts, reveals that instruction from Paul, as well as the practice of those who heeded his instruction, baptized in the name of Jesus.
KJV Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost ....
but not only baptism, the name of Jesus alone was used in healing and deliverance...
KJV Acts 3:6
6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk...
and even recognized as the basis for all their ministry by their enemies...
KJV Acts 4:18
18 And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.

Point being, don't be so quick to write off others just because they are things a little different

 

[Patrick1966]

And yet me and a few others read the bible daily and our answers seem to agree .

Do you agree that Christ saves ALL men?

1 Timothy 4:10 esv
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of ALL people, especially of those who believe.

 

[Enoch111]

One minute your doctrine is spot on, next minute you are trying on consensus and tradition, sounding more Catholic than evangelical.

Brakelite, in view of Marksman's OP, the question we should all be asking ourselves is "How did the Holy Spirit guide Christians in the matter of baptism for the first 100 years after the time of the apostles?" And the testimony of the 2nd century Didache and also Justin Martyr is that all Christians were being baptized "in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit)".

We cannot simply dismiss this testimony since it is proof positive that what Christ commanded is exactly what Christians were doing guided by the Holy Spirit. Then we have the Greek Orthodox Church, which goes all the way back to the time of the apostles. Regardless of any other erroneous doctrines, they too were baptizing with the same words but including "Amen".

"Holy Baptism is the only Sacrament which, in extreme cases, a layman can also perform (both a man or a woman). The only requirements are that the one baptizing must be an Orthodox Christian and the Baptism must be done by immersion, if possible, according to the following formula: The servant (or handmaid) of God [Name] is baptized in the Name of the Father, Amen, of the Son, Amen, and of the Holy Spirit, Amen."

So in essence Marksman is completely off base with his insistence of baptizing only in the name of Jesus Christ. If he wishes to stay on that track he is free to do so, but he is not free to tell Christians that they have it all wrong and he is the only one (or his church) which has it right. The preponderance of evidence in all the churches counts for something.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Of course there is no issue if you ignore scripture.

N one ignores scripture.

However many misinterpret scripture

 

[Robert Gwin]

What has that got to do with baptism?

What does baptism have to do with the 44,000 denominations sir?

Would you like to discuss baptism?