Will Trump seek asylum in Israel and Build the 3rd Temple?

[Freedm]

Just reading all the comments here about the temple, it's interesting to me having such a different perspective now, compared to the perspective I had even 5 years ago.

For many years I've studied the bible, listened to preachers, discussed eschatology, etc. and though I often gained little tidbits of knowledge, and had the occasional epiphany moment, I always knew that the puzzle didn't quite fit. Something was off. It didn't really make sense. Until I finally realized, that all these things are already in our past. The tribulation commenced, the beast was slain, the temple was destroyed, the end of the age came to pass, the new temple has been built, and most importantly, the second coming has already happened. It all makes so much sense now, and I feel like I can finally see things clearly.

So when I read these comments about a future temple, or even a future second coming, it's somewhat frustrating that so many Christians are still confused, and not understanding and therefore unable to appreciate the current state of affairs, but at the same time I know exactly where you are, and why you're there, because I was there recently.

 

[PinSeeker]

Jesus will build His own throne and Temple.

Yes, more and more folks are coming to Jesus by the day.

You are thinking about the temple between the Cross and the Second Coming.

Right, God's Israel, His temple. We are all being built together, on the foundation of the prophets and apostles, with Christ as the cornerstone (Ephesians 2). God is never concerned with literal buildings or structures. The Church ~ God's true Temple ~ is a people.

That temple will be removed at the Second Coming.

There is no "removal," except for those who are not part of the temple, who will depart at the Second Coming and subsequent final Judgment. I get it, you disagree; so be it.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Timtofly]

This is Jesus talking, of course, and He is speaking of Satan. And, metaphorically, Jesus is plundering Satan's house even now. So, necessarily (because of what Jesus says here), Satan is bound ~ in the sense that he cannot "deceive the nations" (which means he cannot prevent the spread of the Gospel) for now, which is exactly what John says in Revelation 20:3. But, near the end of the age, he will "released for a little while" at some point ~ possibly very soon ~ as John says in that same verse.

That was relevant for about 3.5 years. No where during those 3.5 years was Satan put in the pit to be let out just prior to the Crusades. His being put in prison has a literal beginning and end, and is still future. Being bound is one thing. Being restrained is another. In the future, Satan will have no access to the earth at all. Then let loose one last time to attempt to decieve mankind.

You do understand that the temple you keep claiming that does exist, is the one holding Satan in check for the last 1993 years, not a pit somewhere? If a person invites Satan into that temple they are no longer in Christ, if they ever were to begin with.

Your own teaching literally refutes itself. If Satan is bound in a metaphorical pit, how can he also take residence in the metaphorical temple? He cannot be two places at once, even metaphorically. Either he is bound in one place or taking up residence in another, no? There is nothing in Revelation 20 stating Satan is allowed to sit on the throne. Besides that is after the Day of the Lord has been realized. Paul says that Satan sits on that throne before the Day of the Lord.

Your interpretation of Paul means Satan already set on the throne before Jesus was baptized. Then the Day of the Lord was already well under way when Paul wrote about past events. You claim the Day of the Lord has been the period between the Cross and the Second Coming. The Day of the Lord are those, according to you, thousand years in Revelation 20. You claim the Second Coming is after your "Day of the Lord". Do you not claim that the symbolism in Revelation about Satan at work is after that thousand years, Day of the Lord? That is Satan's little season where he is even defeated at Armageddon after the Day of the Lord? So Satan let loose and sitting in the metaphorical temple is towards the end of the Day of the Lord which started in the first century, no?

Pre-mill view the Day of the Lord as being after the Second Coming. Amil view the Day of the Lord as being between the Cross and the Second Coming. So, according to Amil, Paul was writing about events before the Cross in these verses:

"That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

That day is the thousand year period mentioned in Revelation 20. That Day is when Jesus sits on His throne in His Temple for a thousand years in Jerusalem. The place Jesus prepares at the Second Coming.

Paul was refuting Amil who claim the Day of Christ was "at hand". That is English for "present" already in progress.

 

[Timtofly]

Well, from my understanding of Revelation 16:12-16, I believe that it is presently unfolding before us as the kings of the earth are presently being gathered together to assemble at Armageddon in our near future when the Isaiah 24:21-22 judgement of the kings of the earth and the heavenly hosts will occur and they will be imprisoned in the Bottomless pit for 1,000 year,

In Revelation 17 we are told that the beast will rise up out of the bottomless pit to go destruction. In Revelation 13 we are told that the False Prophet, called the Little Horn in the Old Testament, will come up out of the earth, i.e., the bottomless pit. Both can only happen after the bottomless pit is unlocked by the angel who is given the key to the bottomless pit. The first entities that rise up out of the Bottomless pit are the judged kings of the earth, in Revelation 9.

My sense is that your understanding of the end time is a "little" suspect.

Shalom

Only Satan is that beast in both Revelation 13 and Revelation 17.

Isaiah 24 is talking about the Second Coming and all of Adam's dead corruptible flesh is removed from the earth to be judged by God after the Day of the Lord.

For a thousand years humans will do as originally created to do without sin and decay from death. They will fill and subdue the earth under the direct rule of Jesus as King.

Those let out of the pit are the rebel stars that left the firmament about the time of the Flood. They have been bound in chains of darkness waiting for the 5th Trumpet to sound. The kings of the earth have not even been judged yet, at that point.

 

[Freedm]

"That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

I'm just curious. If you could see a point in history, a rebellion in Jerusalem, during which, a man did set himself up in the temple, as if he were God, could that make you consider that what Paul spoke of has already happened? In other words, if you could see that Paul's prediction in that verse matches something that has actually already happened, would you consider that perhaps it indeed has already happened? If not, why not?

 

[Behold]

Since Trump will probably have roughly 40 to 50 indictments against him in the lost-it's-way USA, will he simply renounce his US citizenship and seek asylum in Israel where he has a high approval rating? Israel even has billboards with Trump's image. He could then run for Prime Minister. And, since he is a builder, and has greatly wanted to be the mastermind behind a peace deal of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, e.g., Abraham Accords, he could then be the one to negotiate an agreement to have the 3rd Temple built. Is it possible? Remember, Trump pulled off the impossible in 2016, and then with the historic Abraham Accords.

In the USA, the entire system is rigged and doing everything to stop him. Accordingly, there seems no possible way for Trump to escape all of these indictments. He would be found guilty of at least a few of them, and most likely facing jail time. He could negotiate with prosecutors to renounce his citizenship and then seek asylum in Israel.

Full disclosure: I am not a Trump supporter, just an observant. I voted for him in 2016. I did not vote for anyone in 2020. He's certainly better than what we have now, but that isn't saying much.

If you are not going to Vote for Trump, then check out this Candidate in the Video..

Trump will probably be the nominee, and i would not be surprised if He's reelected, as all these indictments are basically "high tech farce".
He's good for the USA, because he's one of those people who understands what is right and moral, even if he's not perfect in that regard.
He has very strong convictions regarding leading the USA away from Socialism and WW3.
He is an astute businessman, and the USA is "Capitalism", and that is really just a big business... So, who better to direct it?

If Trump is not on your Radar anymore, vote wise, then check out this one.
IN some ways, he's like Trump v2, and has a funny name.
This guy is going to become very popular in the USA, regarding Trump voters, in the next few weeks.
Will Trump pick Him as VP?
Or could it be that this guy is going to just blow up the entire election and become the star of the show., Himself.
-
-

 

[PinSeeker]

That was relevant for about 3.5 years. No where during those 3.5 years was Satan put in the pit to be let out just prior to the Crusades. His being put in prison has a literal beginning and end, and is still future. Being bound is one thing. Being restrained is another. In the future, Satan will have no access to the earth at all. Then let loose one last time to attempt to decieve mankind.

You do understand that the temple you keep claiming that does exist, is the one holding Satan in check for the last 1993 years, not a pit somewhere? If a person invites Satan into that temple they are no longer in Christ, if they ever were to begin with.

Your own teaching literally refutes itself. If Satan is bound in a metaphorical pit, how can he also take residence in the metaphorical temple? He cannot be two places at once, even metaphorically. Either he is bound in one place or taking up residence in another, no? There is nothing in Revelation 20 stating Satan is allowed to sit on the throne. Besides that is after the Day of the Lord has been realized. Paul says that Satan sits on that throne before the Day of the Lord.

Your interpretation of Paul means Satan already set on the throne before Jesus was baptized. Then the Day of the Lord was already well under way when Paul wrote about past events. You claim the Day of the Lord has been the period between the Cross and the Second Coming. The Day of the Lord are those, according to you, thousand years in Revelation 20. You claim the Second Coming is after your "Day of the Lord". Do you not claim that the symbolism in Revelation about Satan at work is after that thousand years, Day of the Lord? That is Satan's little season where he is even defeated at Armageddon after the Day of the Lord? So Satan let loose and sitting in the metaphorical temple is towards the end of the Day of the Lord which started in the first century, no?

Pre-mill view the Day of the Lord as being after the Second Coming. Amil view the Day of the Lord as being between the Cross and the Second Coming. So, according to Amil, Paul was writing about events before the Cross in these verses:

"That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

That day is the thousand year period mentioned in Revelation 20. That Day is when Jesus sits on His throne in His Temple for a thousand years in Jerusalem. The place Jesus prepares at the Second Coming.

Paul was refuting Amil who claim the Day of Christ was "at hand". That is English for "present" already in progress.

I respect your opinions.

I would appreciate you not foisting things (beliefs, claims, assertions, etc.) upon me that are false. There are many here, but, to wit: "Amil view the Day of the Lord as being between the Cross and the Second Coming. So, according to Amil, Paul was writing about events before the Cross in these verses..." This is an abjectly and fully false accusation. And that's par for the course; people who argue against Amillennialism usually misunderstand (unintentionally or otherwise) and thus mischaracterize the very thing they are arguing against. But, so it goes. Any good Amillennialist would agree that "at hand" (as Jesus uses it in relation to the kingdom and Paul uses it in relation to evil (Romans 7:21) and the Lord Himself in Philippans 4:5) means "present." The same is true regarding what Paul says in Romans 13:12 in relation to the day of salvation, not the day of Christ.

This I strongly disagree with (as I've been very clear on), and we can leave it at that (because we've discussed it ad nauseum, here and elsewhere): "That day is the thousand year period mentioned in Revelation 20. That Day is when Jesus sits on His throne in His Temple for a thousand years in Jerusalem." I say again that "that day" is when Christ returns ~ at the conclusion of the current age, the "thousand years," God's millennium, as it is referred to in Revelation 20, the day at which God's work in each and all of us as believers will have been brought to completion (Philippians 1:6). Christ is ruling now over a spiritual kingdom ~ He is (not "will be," as pre-millennialists and post-millennialists make it out to be, even inadvertently) at the right hand of God, which means He is sitting in power now, on the throne of David, which means over Israel, God's true Israel ~ and this spiritual kingdom will be immediately consummated at His return. On that day, faith (the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen) will finally be sight ~ and the new heavens and earth will then be in place (after the final Judgment, of course).

We disagree. Fair enough.

Grace and peace to you, Timtofly.

 

[Freedm]

If you are not going to Vote for Trump, then check out this Candidate in the Video..

Trump will probably be the nominee, and i would not be surprised if He's reelected, as all these indictments are basically "high tech farce".
He's good for the USA, because he's one of those people who understands what is right and moral, even if he's not perfect in that regard.
He has very strong convictions regarding leading the USA away from Socialism and WW3.
He is an astute businessman, and the USA is "Capitalism", and that is really just a big business... So, who better to direct it?

If Trump is not on your Radar anymore, vote wise, then check out this one.
IN some ways, he's like Trump v2, and has a funny name.
This guy is going to become very popular in the USA, regarding Trump voters, in the next few weeks.
Will Trump pick Him as VP?
Or could it be that this guy is going to just blow up the entire election and become the star of the show., Himself.
-
-

Vivek Ramaswamy is a super star. One day he will be a great president, I have no doubt. People are saying Trump should pick him as his VP, but I'm pretty sure Ramaswamy has already said he would turn down that offer, and I think he would be right to. Ramaswamy needs to build his own reputation, away from the shadow of Trump. If he's associated with Trump, there's a large portion of the population who would hold that against him. If Trump drops out (he won't) then I think Ramaswamy would be the nominee, and he would beat Biden easily. More likely Ramaswamy runs (and wins) next time around, and by that time Biden will be dead (let's be real).

 

[Timtofly]

There is no "removal," except for those who are not part of the temple, who will depart at the Second Coming and subsequent final Judgment. I get it, you disagree; so be it.

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Is that on the earth or elsewhere? Seems like a removal to me.

Are we caught up to the surface or to the clouds? Was the church underground?

 

[TLHKAJ]

Well, where do you think we would be if Hillary had won. And don't believe for a second that they wanted that wall built or the USA being energy independent. Or Nafta trade agreement changed, Or what he did with Nato, or Pulling out of the Iran deal or changing the trade agreement with China. Or moving the capital of Israel to Jerusalem. Or the tax cuts for Americans. Or manufacturing jobs being brought back to this country, or changes to the steel industry, or replenishing strategic oil reserves (which have been depleted), or got drug prices lowered, or got people working and had the best unemployment rate for blacks. I'm going to bed because I could be up all-night listing what he has done. You are UNINFORMED and CLUELESS.

You have been duped into believing they ever intended Hillary to sit as president. They placed Trump for a very specific reason.... to deceive and pull in evangelicals. Hillary ran against Trump for that very reason ....

 

[PinSeeker]

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Is that on the earth or elsewhere? Seems like a removal to me.

You're not alone in thinking that, certainly. In response to what you say, I would ask, where does it say anything about us leaving, or going anywhere for any length of time, about the Lord taking us anywhere or removing us? Well, it doesn't say anything of the sort, but only really that we go out to meet Him. I say ~ as would any good Amillinnialist ~ that it's a going out to meet Him, to welcome Him and to join Him in His return... as loyal subjects of royalty do, and to announce/proclaim His return, as is the case elsewhere in Scripture, the greatest and most relevant example being Jesus's entry into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday a few days before His crucifixion, which is a foreshadowing of Jesus's final return:

"This took place to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet, saying, 'Say to the daughter of Zion, "Behold, your king is coming to you, humble, and mounted on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a beast of burden."' The disciples went and did as Jesus had directed them. They brought the donkey and the colt and put on them their cloaks, and He sat on them. Most of the crowd spread their cloaks on the road, and others cut branches from the trees and spread them on the road. And the crowds that went before Him and that followed Him were shouting, 'Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!' And when He entered Jerusalem, the whole city was stirred up, saying, 'Who is this?' And the crowds said, 'This is the prophet Jesus, from Nazareth of Galilee.'”​

[Matthew 21:4:-11]​

​

"And (the disciples) brought the colt to Jesus and threw their cloaks on it, and He sat on it. And many spread their cloaks on the road, and others spread leafy branches that they had cut from the fields. And those who went before and those who followed were shouting, 'Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Blessed is the coming kingdom of our father David! Hosanna in the highest!' And He entered Jerusalem and went into the temple."​

[Mark 11:7-11]​

"And (the disciples) brought it to Jesus, and throwing their cloaks on the colt, they set Jesus on it. And as He rode along, they spread their cloaks on the road. As He was drawing near ~ already on the way down the Mount of Olives ~ the whole multitude of His disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen, saying, 'Blessed is the King who comes in the name of the Lord! Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!' And some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to him, 'Teacher, rebuke your disciples.' He answered, “I tell you, if these were silent, the very stones would cry out.”​

[Luke 19:35-40]​

"The next day the large crowd that had come to the feast heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem. So they took branches of palm trees and went out to meet Him, crying out, 'Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, even the King of Israel!' And Jesus found a young donkey and sat on it, just as it is written, 'Fear not, daughter of Zion; behold, your king is coming, sitting on a donkey’s colt!'”​

[John 12:12-15]​

This time, however, He will not be sitting on a donkey's colt... He will be coming not in humility but in triumph. We will not be going anywhere (unlike unbelievers), much less be "removed" from anything.

Grace and peace to you, Timtofly.

 

[The Light]

You have been duped into believing they ever intended Hillary to sit as president. They placed Trump for a very specific reason.... to deceive and pull in evangelicals. Hillary ran against Trump for that very reason ....

For what purpose. So Trump could do everything possible to make America great again.

Just because the Bushes are in the pocket of the NWO doesn't mean Trump is.

You might check Mike Pence.

Nobama is running the country right now, that should be evident. In case you didn't notice when Trump got in office, he reversed EVERYTHING that Nobama did. When Biden got in office he reversed everything Trump did and a few more.

The only one duped is you. They had no idea that Trump was going to win.

 

[Timtofly]

I'm just curious. If you could see a point in history, a rebellion in Jerusalem, during which, a man did set himself up in the temple, as if he were God, could that make you consider that what Paul spoke of has already happened? In other words, if you could see that Paul's prediction in that verse matches something that has actually already happened, would you consider that perhaps it indeed has already happened? If not, why not?

Nope. It would have had to happen prior to the Baptism of Jesus.

You cannot place this event in the middle of the Day of the Lord.

It is either after or before, not in the middle.

 

[Timtofly]

I respect your opinions.

I would appreciate you not foisting things (beliefs, claims, assertions, etc.) upon me that are false. There are many here, but, to wit: "Amil view the Day of the Lord as being between the Cross and the Second Coming. So, according to Amil, Paul was writing about events before the Cross in these verses..." This is an abjectly and fully false accusation. And that's par for the course; people who argue against Amillennialism usually misunderstand (unintentionally or otherwise) and thus mischaracterize the very thing they are arguing against. But, so it goes. Any good Amillennialist would agree that "at hand" (as Jesus uses it in relation to the kingdom and Paul uses it in relation to evil (Romans 7:21) and the Lord Himself in Philippans 4:5) means "present." The same is true regarding what Paul says in Romans 13:12 in relation to the day of salvation, not the day of Christ.

This I strongly disagree with (as I've been very clear on), and we can leave it at that (because we've discussed it ad nauseum, here and elsewhere): "That day is the thousand year period mentioned in Revelation 20. That Day is when Jesus sits on His throne in His Temple for a thousand years in Jerusalem." I say again that "that day" is when Christ returns ~ at the conclusion of the current age, the "thousand years," God's millennium, as it is referred to in Revelation 20, the day at which God's work in each and all of us as believers will have been brought to completion (Philippians 1:6). Christ is ruling now over a spiritual kingdom ~ He is (not "will be," as pre-millennialists and post-millennialists make it out to be, even inadvertently) at the right hand of God, which means He is sitting in power now, on the throne of David, which means over Israel, God's true Israel ~ and this spiritual kingdom will be immediately consummated at His return. On that day, faith (the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen) will finally be sight ~ and the new heavens and earth will then be in place (after the final Judgment, of course).

We disagree. Fair enough.

Grace and peace to you, Timtofly.

Then you misunderstand and misrepresent the Pre-mill view. The Day of the Lord is the 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom as presented in Revelation 20.

You're not alone in thinking that, certainly. In response to what you say, I would ask, where does it say anything about us leaving, or going anywhere for any length of time, about the Lord taking us anywhere or removing us? Well, it doesn't say anything of the sort, but only really that we go out to meet Him. I say ~ as would any good Amillinnialist ~ that it's a going out to meet Him, to welcome Him and to join Him in His return... as loyal subjects of royalty do, and to announce/proclaim His return, as is the case elsewhere in Scripture, the greatest and most relevant example being Jesus's entry into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday a few days before His crucifixion, which is a foreshadowing of Jesus's final return:

"This took place to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet, saying, 'Say to the daughter of Zion, "Behold, your king is coming to you, humble, and mounted on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a beast of burden."' The disciples went and did as Jesus had directed them. They brought the donkey and the colt and put on them their cloaks, and He sat on them. Most of the crowd spread their cloaks on the road, and others cut branches from the trees and spread them on the road. And the crowds that went before Him and that followed Him were shouting, 'Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!' And when He entered Jerusalem, the whole city was stirred up, saying, 'Who is this?' And the crowds said, 'This is the prophet Jesus, from Nazareth of Galilee.'”​

[Matthew 21:4:-11]​

​

"And (the disciples) brought the colt to Jesus and threw their cloaks on it, and He sat on it. And many spread their cloaks on the road, and others spread leafy branches that they had cut from the fields. And those who went before and those who followed were shouting, 'Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Blessed is the coming kingdom of our father David! Hosanna in the highest!' And He entered Jerusalem and went into the temple."​

[Mark 11:7-11]​

"And (the disciples) brought it to Jesus, and throwing their cloaks on the colt, they set Jesus on it. And as He rode along, they spread their cloaks on the road. As He was drawing near ~ already on the way down the Mount of Olives ~ the whole multitude of His disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen, saying, 'Blessed is the King who comes in the name of the Lord! Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!' And some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to him, 'Teacher, rebuke your disciples.' He answered, “I tell you, if these were silent, the very stones would cry out.”​

[Luke 19:35-40]​

"The next day the large crowd that had come to the feast heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem. So they took branches of palm trees and went out to meet Him, crying out, 'Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, even the King of Israel!' And Jesus found a young donkey and sat on it, just as it is written, 'Fear not, daughter of Zion; behold, your king is coming, sitting on a donkey’s colt!'”​

[John 12:12-15]​

This time, however, He will not be sitting on a donkey's colt... He will be coming not in humility but in triumph. We will not be going anywhere (unlike unbelievers), much less be "removed" from anything.

Grace and peace to you, Timtofly.

So 1 Thessalonians 4 is about the triumphant entry of Jesus into Jerusalem?


You have a strange way of denying we are not in the Day of the Lord.

 

[Freedm]

Nope. It would have had to happen prior to the Baptism of Jesus.

You cannot place this event in the middle of the Day of the Lord.

It is either after or before, not in the middle.

You think the end of the age and the beast in the temple and the return of Jesus would have to happen prior to the Baptism of Jesus? That doesn't make sense. I must be misunderstanding you.

 

[Freedm]

So 1 Thessalonians 4 is about the triumphant entry of Jesus into Jerusalem?

I know your question was not to me, but I just want to add the following, for the sake of interest.

1 Thess 4:17 says that we will join the Lord in the air, but the usage of the word here that is translated as "air" is interesting, because according to Strong's it refers to the air specifically down here, near the ground, where we walk and breathe, as opposed to the air higher up in the atmosphere. Also, this word sometimes denotes a "hazy, obscure atmosphere", which could be a reference to the unclean world we live in, or Paul lived in, before Jesus' return.

And I realize, that in our culture, in our modern day, when we say "in the air" it conveys an image of being off the ground, but I think Paul didn't mean it that way. I think Paul might've been saying that the Lord will join us down here in the air that we breathe. In other words, literally down here where we are. This makes a lot of sense from the perspective of someone who believes that the Lord is literally with us today, down here where we breathe, meaning we don't have to go to heaven to be with the Lord because he is already with us.

Here's Strong's reference

STRONGS NT 109: ἀήρ​

​

ἀήρ, ἀέρος, ὁ (ἄημι, ἄω (cf. ἄνεμος, at the beginning)), the air (particularly the lower and denser, as distinguished from the higher and rarer ὁ αἰθήρ, cf. Homer, Iliad 14, 288), the atmospheric region: Acts 22:23; 1 Thessalonians 4:17; Revelation 9:2; Revelation 16:17; ὁ ἄρχων τῆς ἐξουσίας τοῦ ἀέρος in Ephesians 2:2 signifies 'the ruler of the powers (spirits, see ἐξουσία 4 c. ββ.) in the air,' i. e. the devil, the prince of the demons that according to Jewish opinion fill the realm of air (cf. Meyer at the passage; (B. D. American edition under the word ; Stuart in Bib. Sacr. for 1843, p. 139f)). Sometimes indeed, ἀήρ denotes a hazy, obscure atmosphere (Homer, Iliad 17, 644; 3, 381; 5, 356, etc.; Polybius 18, 3, 7), but is nowhere quite equiv, to σκότος — the sense which many injudiciously assign it in Ephesians, the passage cited ἀέρα δέρειν, (cf.verberat ictibus auras, Vergil Aen. 5, 377, of pugilists who miss their aim) i. e. to contend in vain, 1 Corinthians 9:26; εἰς ἀέρα λαλεῖν (verba ventis profundere, Lucr. 4, 929 (932)) 'to speak into the air' i. e. without effect, used of those who speak what is not understood by the hearers, 1 Corinthians 14:9.​

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[PinSeeker]

Then you misunderstand and misrepresent the Pre-mill view.

And how would that be, Timtofly? I mean, that's really a rhetorical question, but feel free to answer. No, I'm quite clear on the pre-mill view (in all its variations). I would be interested to know how you think I misrepresent it, though. I don't intentionally misrepresent anything, and am open to that possibility regarding the pre-mill view.

The Day of the Lord is the 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom as presented in Revelation 20.

Well, I agree. Okay, so you mean it in the sense of an age... yes, I'm good with that, I've always been good with that. This is 2023 A.D., sure, Anno Domini, in the year of our Lord. In your pre-tribulational view, though, you believe that Day, that age, is still future only, and I, of course, disagree with that. But yes, the Day of the Lord in the sense of an age... as in the age of the Gentiles and the church Age, the tribulation, the time of Jacob's trouble, the time in which the fullness of the Gentiles is brought in and then the partial hardening is removed and thus all of Israel is saved ~ the age in which God is currently building His temple, in the words of Paul in Ephesians 2... sure, I'm in full agreement with that. What I don't agree with you on is what you and all variations of pre-millennialists think the true nature of the Millennial Kingdom is and when it takes place. Rhetorically (again), I would ask any pre-millennialist, "Who is your King? Do you have one? Like, now?"

Aside from that, there is a sense in which the Day of the Lord is a singular day, though, the day of His return. As Paul says, God will ~ future tense ~ His good work in us to completion at the day of Christ (Philippians 1:6).

So 1 Thessalonians 4 is about the triumphant entry of Jesus into Jerusalem?

No. I don't see how you could get such a thing from what I wrote. But I guess I'm not surprised.

You have a strange way of denying we are not in the Day of the Lord.

LOL! See above.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Lizbeth]

They're all criminals.... Trump included. We're watching turf wars between factions of the elite cult.

Satan's kingdom divided against itself.

 

[Jay Ross]

Only Satan is that beast in both Revelation 13 and Revelation 17.

Isaiah 24 is talking about the Second Coming and all of Adam's dead corruptible flesh is removed from the earth to be judged by God after the Day of the Lord.

For a thousand years humans will do as originally created to do without sin and decay from death. They will fill and subdue the earth under the direct rule of Jesus as King.

Those let out of the pit are the rebel stars that left the firmament about the time of the Flood. They have been bound in chains of darkness waiting for the 5th Trumpet to sound. The kings of the earth have not even been judged yet, at that point.

We will have to agree to disagree. I cannot accept your theories re the end times.

Oh well I need to go and find my mountain again where I can rest in peace.

 

[Timtofly]

You think the end of the age and the beast in the temple and the return of Jesus would have to happen prior to the Baptism of Jesus? That doesn't make sense. I must be misunderstanding you.

That is not what I think. That is how your interpretation reads.

You have the falling away happening in the middle of the Day of the Lord. Paul claims it happens prior to the start of the Day of the Lord.

The falling away and the beast happens before the Day of the Lord can even start. The Second Coming is not the Day of the Lord. The Second Coming is to prepare for the Day of the Lord.