Willful Sin is simply premeditated

[robert derrick]

Why do you defend the flesh when God has condemned it to death?

Rejecting the lie of the flesh born with sin, is not 'defending' anything. No more than is acknowledge grass natural dies, and not by sinning.

You've just answered again, the OSAS lie of condemning the body for the deeds we do with the body. It's the soul that sins with the flesh, and so it's us that get all the blame.

The OSAS hypocrisy of not be condemned with the world, while doing the same as the world, is the reason the world wants to blaspheme the cross.

When I was a sinner, and Christians tried to tell me they were not condemned, while doing the same as me and condemned, I knew they were pathetic trash.

I had to disregard the hypocrites, when coming to Jesus, because hypocrites are no more an excuse for our deeds, than our bodies.

Moreover, do you not understand that to think the flesh can do righteously--

More misreading. We do sin or righteousness, with the body and the mouth. Our bodies don't do anything of their own accord.

Tell me now. Do you seriously think your body does anything without you having it do so? Do you ever seriously think your body shares in any condemnation, if you do sin with it?

Or is this 'doctrine' talk?

On the contrary, people do not walk righteously except in the spirit and in Christ, the only One who has done and can or could do righteously.

True. We now live in the flesh as He did in the days of His flesh.

All flesh is the same and has nothing to do with what we do in and with the body.

 

[robert derrick]

No, but rather the word is not of the flesh, but of living in the flesh after salvation. Still, the two are separate by definition, even though we "remain."

Ok. We cleanse our life in flesh from sinful deeds. There's nothing in the flesh tissues and blood plasma, that needs cleansing.

Unless it's a disease or some such.

But what does it mean to remain? It means, we like Christ, though being raised up in the spirit, remain in the service of God in the lowly places of Christ, just as Jesus who descended into the lowly places of this world for the sake of the salvation of many.

You mean lowly places on earth, where the poor in spirit seek the gospel of salvation. Correct?

You're not talking about us descending into the lowers parts of the earth to preach to them in prison, right?

Being made a little lower than the angels, is being born in mortal flesh and blood, while they are created with immortal bodies.

Yet, He--not we, are God, in this same setting. It is not we who attain righteousness, but Jesus, in whom we also attain it--not in ourselves, but in Him.

True. By doing His righteousness, correct? Not just by believing in it, correct?

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

This is the progression of our righteousness according to His prayer for us, that we should be One--but One in Him, not in or of ourselves.

True. One with Him and one with each other, unity of faith and godly living and worshipping in the Spirit.

 

[robert derrick]

I've answered this above, but as for the heart:

We who are saved and born again of the spirit are broken in heart, and if remaining, we remain in suffering as the broken hearted.

He mends the broken heart and spirit through repentance and forgiveness of sins.

Once forgiven of past sinning, we are free to rejoice in the Lord.

It is in this way that even Jesus, taking on the sins of this world and giving His body to the church which is not without sin,

Do you believe we can live and walk righteously in this life, as He did in His own flesh?

carries it without blame or condemnation.

Do you believe if a Christian sins in the flesh, we are no more condemned as the world?

 

[ScottA]

Let the spiritually dead bury the dead bodies of others, who care more for family and friends, than following the Lord.


The flesh profits nothing in this life. It is the soul that matters most.

The flesh does not attain to the resurrection of the dead, we do. We attain to inheriting the kingdom of God,w ith the resurrected immortal body from the grave.

All resurrection is Scripture is of dead bodies.


The dead do rise. You are siding with Sadducees.

In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.

Even the unbelievers in the resurrection of the dead, knew it was the dead bodies that would rise from the dust of the earth. They didn't believe Daniel nor Jesus, but they at least acknowledged what they were talking about.

For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

You need to address the fact that our forerunner is resurrected with His old dead body, and our resurrection will be in the likeness of His.

Those other kind of resurrection is made up and disingenuous. It's the same as those that prophecy another kind of Millennium on earth.


The flesh is not dead, until it's dead.

The old man of sin is not the body, but the sinful life with the body, where the flesh is lusted and walked after, rather than the Spirit.


Yes, it is nothing in itself, like dust and grass. It doesn't mean we don't care for the flesh, nor can suffer by it, but it has no profit in being saved, justified, and having fellowship in Christ.

Other than still being in naturally mortal bodies.

And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.




This is nice twist, but still a twist.

The flesh doesn't know anything of itself, even when resurrected immortally. It receives immortality, but only the soul knows it.

The body doesn't know anything of itself. It's just a body, like a tree trunk, but a living one animated by soul and spirit. Trees don't have spirits, no matter what the pagan tree huggers think.

Sorry no. The body is natural flesh and blood on earth. The image of the body is the image of man, that is seen by the body as different from all other creatures on earth.

The body is not the image of God, but the Son came in the image of man, in the flesh of man by a woman.

Christ still creates every soul and fashions every body, but now in the womb of a woman.

And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

Even Eve knows that much.

And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

Man's image formed by Christ, is that of man on earth, as distinct from that of whales.

Man bears offspring with image of man, and whales bear offspring with image of whales, and Christ forms both.

It has nothing to do with the spiritual image of God, that men's souls are created with.


That is after the sinning, of course. All men make themselves children of the devil, by doing the deeds of the devil, rather than righteousness of God.

Saying the heritage of the Lord, and His reward from the womb, is of the devil, is just another lie of the devil against God. It's the same lie, that says it's God's fault men sin, because He makes us as sinners from the womb.

The devil neither creates nor makes anything, but a lie and liars.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Christ is still the only Maker there is.

I've given you this enough times, and you've never challenged these Scriptures, nor the sense of them I've given.


Never said so. The question is what cleansing the flesh means, if the flesh is 'made of sin', as some say.


Incorrect quote. No flesh and blood inherits the kingdom of God. That is living flesh on earth.

Dead flesh in the dust, which has no blood, is made immortal at the resurrection of the dead. And it's not the immortal body inheriting the kingdom of God, but the soul of the righteous with immortal body.





True. Our bodies are not now raised up in Christ, but our souls from the death of sins and trespasses.

The dead bodies do not rise in the resurrection, until the Lord comes again. His dead body is, so far, the only one of man resurrected unto everlasting life.

You need to address the fact that our forerunner is resurrected with His old dead body from the tomb.

Rejecting the lie of the flesh born with sin, is not 'defending' anything. No more than is acknowledge grass natural dies, and not by sinning.

You've just answered again, the OSAS lie of condemning the body for the deeds we do with the body. It's the soul that sins with the flesh, and so it's us that get all the blame.

The OSAS hypocrisy of not be condemned with the world, while doing the same as the world, is the reason the world wants to blaspheme the cross.

When I was a sinner, and Christians tried to tell me they were not condemned, while doing the same as me and condemned, I knew they were pathetic trash.

I had to disregard the hypocrites, when coming to Jesus, because hypocrites are no more an excuse for our deeds, than our bodies.




More misreading. We do sin or righteousness, with the body and the mouth. Our bodies don't do anything of their own accord.

Tell me now. Do you seriously think your body does anything without you having it do so? Do you ever seriously think your body shares in any condemnation, if you do sin with it?

Or is this 'doctrine' talk?



True. We now live in the flesh as He did in the days of His flesh.

All flesh is the same and has nothing to do with what we do in and with the body.

Ok. We cleanse our life in flesh from sinful deeds. There's nothing in the flesh tissues and blood plasma, that needs cleansing.

Unless it's a disease or some such.


You mean lowly places on earth, where the poor in spirit seek the gospel of salvation. Correct?

You're not talking about us descending into the lowers parts of the earth to preach to them in prison, right?

Being made a little lower than the angels, is being born in mortal flesh and blood, while they are created with immortal bodies.


True. By doing His righteousness, correct? Not just by believing in it, correct?

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.




True. One with Him and one with each other, unity of faith and godly living and worshipping in the Spirit.

He mends the broken heart and spirit through repentance and forgiveness of sins.

Once forgiven of past sinning, we are free to rejoice in the Lord.



Do you believe we can live and walk righteously in this life, as He did in His own flesh?



Do you believe if a Christian sins in the flesh, we are no more condemned as the world?

I am not here to debate these things with you. This is not a debate. One either hears what the Spirit says to the churches, or not. Meanwhile, you beating your own drum serves no purpose which I care to participate in as long as you continue by your own understanding--and certainly not by the handful. You would do better to remain silent.

 

[mailmandan]

I am not here to debate these things with you. This is not a debate. One either hears what the Spirit says to the churches, or not. Meanwhile, you beating your own drum serves no purpose which I care to participate in as long as you continue by your own understanding--and certainly not by the handful. You would do better to remain silent.

Amen! Now who in there right mind would have the audacity to refer to certain Christians as "pathetic trash." See post #81. Unbelievable!

 

[dev553344]

Willfully sinning is simple: they will do it.

It's premeditated and planned, just like any sinner planning on getting drunk, or thieving, or fornicating, or murdering...

Christians who do so, have departed Christ and His commandment. They can still confess and repent afterward, if the Advocate for the world draws them.

Like the mad prophet, that wouldn't even listen to a donkey warning him not to, and was blind to the Lord with drawn sword.

Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.

But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

Willful sinning is presumptive sinning, that mocks God's law and longsuffering mercy.

Joab did so in the murder of Abner, where he enticed him to foolishly walk outside the gate of the city of mercy.

First off getting drunk may not be a sin. Remember Noah got drunk and Lot also. The bible spells out wine and strong drink for the poor and those that are dying.

Second not all sinners that habitually sin willfully do it. You can be a slave to Satan and have little choice in the matter. Such as addictions. We all need a 12 step program to come out of addiction and break the bonds of enslavement.

 

[robert derrick]

I am not here to debate these things with you. This is not a debate.

Yeah, as usual I was concluding the same thing. You don't entertain challenges, that you have no answer for, but only look for ears to fill. I just keep forgetting you've already ascended to heaven to receive new revelation of truth from God.

Hey, who can argue with John the Revelator II.

And so I keep trying to give you more credit than you deserve.

In any case, you may say you are living godly in Christ Jesus, but your OSAS doctrine of blaming the body for sinning, will end in the grave.

And you'll be held accountable for defiling the hearers what want to believe you, and practice it.

But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

From now on, if you address me again, I am purposed not to bother trying to instruct you, but only disagree or agree. I don't like having my time wasted.

 

[ScottA]

Yeah, as usual I was concluding the same thing. You don't entertain challenges, that you have no answer for, but only look for ears to fill. I just keep forgetting you've already ascended to heaven to receive new revelation of truth from God.

Hey, who can argue with John the Revelator II.

And so I keep trying to give you more credit than you deserve.

In any case, you may say you are living godly in Christ Jesus, but your OSAS doctrine of blaming the body for sinning, will end in the grave.

And you'll be held accountable for defiling the hearers what want to believe you, and practice it.

But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

From now on, if you address me again, I am purposed not to bother trying to instruct you, but only disagree or agree. I don't like having my time wasted.

I would not have replied except for your accusation of "having no answers."

On the contrary, I have given more to you than to most. And for this, you yourself have all the more to answer for. Luke 12:48

Yes, time is short.

 

[robert derrick]

I would not have replied except for your accusation of "having no answers."

On the contrary, I have given more to you than to most. And for this, you yourself have all the more to answer for. Luke 12:48

Yes, time is short.

You don't respond to Scriptural challenges to your doctrinal 'revelation'. You just repeat yourself around them.

By stating plainly that you do not 'debate' people, explains it. In future, if you have something more to 'reveal' to me, then I'll either agree and disagree without bothering to challenge nor instruct.

In the meantime, teaching Christians to blame their bodies for sinning, is a doctrine delusion for more self-justified ungodliness, that ends in the grave.

'Defending' the flesh, by not blaming the body for sinning with the flesh, is on par with the devil accusing those that resist him, of 'persecuting' him.

It's also what the world rightly mocks as Christianized hypocrisy in the extreme.

 

[Gilligan]

Really?? Like you know the hearts of others?

I know their doctrine, since they teach it. I just strip the airy words from it.

And this is you answer to those who disagree?

It's my understanding of what they teach.

No thank you!

Keep your airy words then. Don't look at the bare bones.

Much love!

Lip service.

 

[Gilligan]

Bringing humanly 'wisdom' as a means to understand the Bible won't work.

Common sense is the Bible. And it is God that makes difference between premeditated and unpremeditated.

And the opposite of wilful isn't unplanned, its unwillful.

This is grammar. I'm talking about God's word.

Unplanned sinning is unknown and ignorant sinning. It still required sacrifice, but it was not wilful, so that any was executed under the law.

Even a spur of the moment sin is wilful, because you have the power to not. This is sophistry.

This is opinion. It's still sinful, but not wilful.

But, if you put the passage into it's context, there is a distinction in the Law that this aligns to.

Which is the whole point. The law of God is His judgment, and He makes difference between wilful, unplanned, and ignorantly sinning.

The premeditated killing of another person was executed by death. Not unplanned manslaughter, or sins of ignorance.

The same applies in Christ today: if we wilfully sinning, we have no more sacrifice from Christ for our sins, and we must come to the Advocate for the world to be saved, for we are dead to Christ by willfully sinning against Him with the devil.

 

[ScottA]

You don't respond to Scriptural challenges to your doctrinal 'revelation'. You just repeat yourself around them.

By stating plainly that you do not 'debate' people, explains it. In future, if you have something more to 'reveal' to me, then I'll either agree and disagree without bothering to challenge nor instruct.

In the meantime, teaching Christians to blame their bodies for sinning, is a doctrine delusion for more self-justified ungodliness, that ends in the grave.

'Defending' the flesh, by not blaming the body for sinning with the flesh, is on par with the devil accusing those that resist him, of 'persecuting' him.

It's also what the world rightly mocks as Christianized hypocrisy in the extreme.

Ending with more accusations (lies) is quite apropos.

 

[robert derrick]

End in with more accusations (lies) is quite apropos.

No end. Just no more attempts to instruct you, since you're not open to correction of Scripture. You've made it clear in the past, that your angelic revelations are not subject to Scriptural confirmation. And now you say you are only looking for hearers, not Berean inspectors.

Just remember, you're always the moth returning to the flame with me. Once you run away again, I never come after you. When you return again, and you will, then just expect more Scriptural correction. Maybe you should just finally quit crying about it. I'm never going to be your baby chick swallowing your revelatory worms.

 

[ScottA]

No end. Just no more attempts to instruct you, since you're not open to correction of Scripture. You've made it clear in the past, that your angelic revelations are not subject to Scriptural confirmation. And now you say you are only looking for hearers, not Berean inspectors.

Just remember, you're always the moth returning to the flame with me. Once you run away again, I never come after you. When you return again, and you will, then just expect more Scriptural correction. Maybe you should just finally quit crying about it. I'm never going to be your baby chick swallowing your revelatory worms.

More lies and psychological projection

 

[robert derrick]

More lies and psychological projection

Oops. You've mothed back to my flame already. That was quicker than I thought. Unless you are only a projection.

 

[ScottA]

Oops. You've mothed back to my flame already. That was quicker than I thought. Unless you are only a projection.

Your metaphor doesn't work that way, you have it backwards. Light rather shines into darkness, and the moths are destroyed.

 

[robert derrick]

Your metaphor doesn't work that way, you have it backwards. Light rather shines into darkness, and the moths are destroyed.

You're not even gone yet, much less destroyed.

 

[Earburner]

The doctrine of being already forgiven for past and future sins, simply teaches willful sinning to Christians. Those who act upon it willingly, are willful sinners planning on sinning again. It's only a matter of when, not if.

The self-justifiers limit it to only time to time, so as to appear to themselves, to be 'resisting' temptation some of the time, just not all.

There remains no more sacrifice of the Lamb, for them willfully sinning with preplanned intent, because they don't want the blood of Jesus washing them from doing it.

They also despise the Spirit of grace, because they don't want any help from the grace of God not to do it.

Willful sinning of the world is simply preplanned and condemned. Wilfully sinning by Christians, is simply prep7lanned and unjustified. Wilfully sinning by Christians with doctrinal cover, is simply preplanned and preforgiven.

Heb. 10
[26] For if we sin wilfully AFTER that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
[28] He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[29] Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
[30] For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
[31] It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Actually, the context doesn't say what all here are saying. To get to the point, it is talking about "born again-saved saints" who commit the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
One cannot "despise" what one never knew about, or ever participated in.

Heb. 6
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

All should learn and remember this:
Mark 3
[28] Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
[29] But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

John 3:18 is a must read for all born again saints. The unsaved are condemned already. The saved are no longer condemned. However, should a saved person despise, reject and fall away from Christ, it is impossible for them to be renewed unto repentance towards God again.