Without unconditional Election,no one would be saved.

[Episkopos]

Those are not conditional,but rather statements describing the result,le if so be
What you describe is a works based salvation which cannot save.

It looks that way from a make-believe religion with no power. The bible describes a way that works. You espouse a way that doesn't work. That's where works come in.

Eisegesis is where you try adding in meaning that isn't there. Wishful thinking.

 

[Dave L]

You are reflecting what you are doing to me. I said....God decides who pleases Him. Not people. But you claim a salvation for yourself apart from God's say so. You point to a bible that anyone can buy....but this does not buy you into the kingdom of God. There are conditions...written in the bible you are neglecting to respect.

I think you missed my point.

 

[Episkopos]

I think you missed my point.

Again...a consistent projection. Is this backwards day?

 

[Dave L]

Again...a consistent projection. Is this backwards day?

If salvation is conditional, you pervert the gospel changing it into law, and also grace, turning it into works.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

It looks that way from a make-believe religion with no power. The bible describes a way that works. You espouse a way that doesn't work. That's where works come in.

Eisegesis is where you try adding in meaning that isn't there. Wishful thinking.

You are a little bit full of yourself my friend. I've not read one of your post that I would recognize as any part of the Biblical teaching

 

[CoreIssue]

The great blessing if the teaching of unconditional election is a great blessing to all saints throughout time.
If Jesus was not the mediator and surety from before the creation of the world, not one sinner would be saved anywhere at any time. Not one. Zero,nada.
If God had not had mercy on a multitude of sinners,electing each of them there would be no one saved as no one seeks God, no not one.psalm14:1-3,

79 Bible verses about Seeking God

 

[Enoch111]

You are confusing Physical Israel made up of believers and unbelievers alike, with the saved faithful like Abraham. That is, they were elect as a nation as well as some being elect as the saved among them.

You still don't get it.

According to Calvinistic theory Unconditional Election is a Bible principle. Therefore every person within THE ELECT NATION OF ISRAEL should have been saved by IRRESISTIBLE GRACE having received the GIFT OF FAITH.

Yet Calvinists cannot tell us why every Jew did not receive that so-called gift of faith, when that nation was already elected by God?

Do you know that God specifically elected Israel? Well here is the proof.

And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. (Exod 19:6)

For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people (Deut 7:6,7)

For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure. (Ps 135:4)

We could add many more Scriptures. But in view of these Scriptures, the Calvinist must explain to Israel and the Church why God did not unconditionally elect every Jew for salvation.

And because Unconditional Election is A BOGUS DOCTRINE you will never be able to explain why the majority of Jews remained unsaved.

 

[CoreIssue]

A mediator seeks to resolve an agreement between two parties by the law.

He listens to each side, makes proposals and when the parties agree he signs off on the agreement.

God sets the law. Christ mediates and makes his proposal to resolve the conflict.

That does not exist in Calvinism. God sets the law and dictates the outcome with no input from us.

By definition that is not mediation or arbitration.

Do not try to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. I have been a state arbitrator now in my 10th year.

Calvinism denies the role of Christ as mediator between God and man. In Calvinism he has no reconciliation to offer that can be accepted or denied.

 

[Episkopos]

If salvation is conditional, you pervert the gospel changing it into law, and also grace, turning it into works.

The opposite is true. God decides things. You would make a doctrine that is above God. And that doctrine is your interpretation....not the truth.

 

[Episkopos]

You are a little bit full of yourself my friend. I've not read one of your post that I would recognize as any part of the Biblical teaching

The key is...that you would recognize... since you are adding your own meaning to the bible....one that puts you at an advantage,

But God is sovereign....called Lord. Have you read about the living God? Do you recognize that teaching?

 

[Dave L]

The opposite is true. God decides things. You would make a doctrine that is above God. And that doctrine is your interpretation....not the truth.

You say salvation is by works when you say it is conditional.

 

[Dave L]

You still don't get it.

According to Calvinistic theory Unconditional Election is a Bible principle. Therefore every person within THE ELECT NATION OF ISRAEL should have been saved by IRRESISTIBLE GRACE having received the GIFT OF FAITH.

Yet Calvinists cannot tell us why every Jew did not receive that so-called gift of faith, when that nation was already elected by God?

Do you know that God specifically elected Israel? Well here is the proof.

And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. (Exod 19:6)

For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people (Deut 7:6,7)

For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure. (Ps 135:4)

We could add many more Scriptures. But in view of these Scriptures, the Calvinist must explain to Israel and the Church why God did not unconditionally elect every Jew for salvation.

And because Unconditional Election is A BOGUS DOCTRINE you will never be able to explain why the majority of Jews remained unsaved.

If election is conditional, people are the saviors.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

The key is...that you would recognize... since you are adding your own meaning to the bible....one that puts you at an advantage,

But God is sovereign....called Lord. Have you read about the living God? Do you recognize that teaching?

Sure...but not from anything you posted. Your carnal philosophy does not speak to the true and living God.

 

[Episkopos]

Sure...but not from anything you posted. Your carnal philosophy does not speak to the true and living God.

If only it were carnal, then you would understand and no doubt agree. But since it is both biblical and has a spiritual understanding attached...the same understanding that went into the text to begin with...you find yourself bamboozled.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

A mediator seeks to resolve an agreement between two parties by the law.

He listens to each side, makes proposals and when the parties agree he signs off on the agreement.

God sets the law. Christ mediates and makes his proposal to resolve the conflict.

That does not exist in Calvinism. God sets the law and dictates the outcome with no input from us.

By definition that is not mediation or arbitration.

Do not try to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. I have been a state arbitrator now in my 10th year.

Calvinism denies the role of Christ as mediator between God and man. In Calvinism he has no reconciliation to offer that can be accepted or denied.

This is why you do not understand biblical salvation

 

[Episkopos]

Confining the truth to what people agree on is like putting God in a box. The truth is far greater and deeper than most people can handle. If verses are posted that disagree with a person's current understanding what normally happens, because of pride, is a refusal to face the truth. Instead, insults fly....at whom? At God. At the Holy Spirit who wrote the offending text.

People hate the truth. Many Christians also hate the truth....and are the worst offenders. Religious pride is born when certainty replaces faith in God. When a person stops being a disciple and learner and fancies himself a teacher.

 

[justbyfaith]

If election is conditional, people are the saviors.

God is the Saviour; but He will not do that for us apart from our asking Him to do it (Matthew 7:7-8, Luke 11:9-13).

He initiated the process by telling us that if we ask, it will be given to us.

He provided salvation for us by dying on the Cross. However, we must appropriate that salvation by placing our faith in Christ and what He did for us.

 

[Dave L]

God is the Saviour; but He will not do that for us apart from our asking Him to do it (Matthew 7:7-8, Luke 11:9-13).

He initiated the process by telling us that if we ask, it will be given to us.

He provided salvation for us by dying on the Cross. However, we must appropriate that salvation by placing our faith in Christ and what He did for us.

Did he ask Lazarus before raising him from the dead?

 

[justbyfaith]

Have you ever asked the Lord to make you into a vessel of honour and/or mercy? or do you just presume that you are already a vessel of honour and/or mercy because you consider yourself to be a good person?

Realize that even in your own (Calvinistic) theology you were born dead in trespasses and sins. If there is no specific moment in which you understand that you crossed over from death unto life, then you are, quite frankly, headed for hell.

To me it seems that there is something that must be done on our part for that transaction to occur.

 

[justbyfaith]

Did he ask Lazarus before raising him from the dead?

I'm certain that since Lazarus had/has an immortal soul, that while he was dead in the grave, his spirit was crying out to be delivered from death. So it may be that Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead in response to the request of his heart's cry as one that was dead.