Without unconditional Election,no one would be saved.

[Dave L]

Have you ever asked the Lord to make you into a vessel of honour and/or mercy? or do you just presume that you are already a vessel of honour and/or mercy because you consider yourself to be a good person?

Realize that even in your theology you were born dead in trespasses and sins. If there is no specific moment in which you understand that you crossed over from death unto life, then you are, quite frankly, headed for hell.

To me it seems that there is something that must be done on our part for that transaction to occur.

Those who are dead in trespasses and sins couldn't care less about salvation, thinking it is foolishness.

 

[Dave L]

I'm certain that since Lazarus had/has an immortal soul, that while he was dead in the grave, his spirit was crying out to be delivered from death. So it may be that Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead in response to the request of his heart's cry as one that was dead.

This is mere speculation. If he was in heaven, why would Jesus bring him back here to die all over again?

 

[CoreIssue]

This is why you do not understand biblical salvation

Because I understand what words like mediator mean and you don't?

 

[CoreIssue]

Those who are dead in trespasses and sins couldn't care less about salvation, thinking it is foolishness.

But those who repent are no longer dead in sin.

 

[CoreIssue]

Confining the truth to what people agree on is like putting God in a box. The truth is far greater and deeper than most people can handle. If verses are posted that disagree with a person's current understanding what normally happens, because of pride, is a refusal to face the truth. Instead, insults fly....at whom? At God. At the Holy Spirit who wrote the offending text.

People hate the truth. Many Christians also hate the truth....and are the worst offenders. Religious pride is born when certainty replaces faith in God. When a person stops being a disciple and learner and fancies himself a teacher.

If They hate the truth they are not Christians, oh mighty guru.

Indeed a lot have false doctrine. But that does not mean they are not saved if they are true Christians.

 

[CoreIssue]

Did he ask Lazarus before raising him from the dead?

That is nonsense. Lazarus was not resurrected from the dead, he was resuscitated.

You only die once. True death is when the spirit leaves the body. Lazarus did not experience true death.

 

[justbyfaith]

That is nonsense. Lazarus was not resurrected from the dead, he was resuscitated.

You only die once. True death is when the spirit leaves the body. Lazarus did not experience true death.

I believe that the testimony in that scripture was that he had begun to stink because he had already been dead four days.

 

[CoreIssue]

You say salvation is by works when you say it is conditional.

Accepting a gift is not a work. But you must accept the gift to be saved.

If you are hungry and someone offers you a sandwich, what work did you do when you accept it?

 

[justbyfaith]

This is mere speculation. If he was in heaven, why would Jesus bring him back here to die all over again?

He was not in heaven. This was still in the time period before Jesus "led captivity captive."

So at that time, Lazarus was located in Abraham's bosom.

 

[CoreIssue]

I believe that the testimony in that scripture was that he had begun to stink because he had already been dead four days.

That does not mean his spirit had left his body.

The Bible says live once, die once and then the judgement. Is that a lie?

 

[justbyfaith]

Accepting a gift is not a work. But you must accept the gift to be saved.

If you are hungry and someone offers you a sandwich, what work did you do when you accept it?

You have to chew the food (I'm being facetious). If a man doesn't work, he won't eat.

 

[justbyfaith]

That does not mean his spirit had left his body.

The Bible says live once, die once and then the judgement. Is that a lie?

Many scripture rules have exceptions to them.

 

[CoreIssue]

He was not in heaven. This was still in the time period before Jesus "led captivity captive."

So at that time, Lazarus was located in Abraham's bosom.

His spirit was not in paradise. It was still in his body.

She assumed his body stank. She did not actually smell it.

John 11
11 After he had said this, he went on to tell them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up.”

To believe this spirit was in paradise with Abraham is to make the Bible a lie.

If you understand the meaning of resuscitation you understand what happened here.

Your thinking in purely human terms.

Same principle as those who say Enoch and Elijah cannot possibly be alive in heaven after all this time.

 

[CoreIssue]

He was not in heaven. This was still in the time period before Jesus "led captivity captive."

So at that time, Lazarus was located in Abraham's bosom.

Spirits went to paradise, not flesh.

This spirits in paradise are the spirits of the dead saints of the Old Testament.

 

[CoreIssue]

You have to chew the food (I'm being facetious). If a man doesn't work, he won't eat.

That does not mean you cannot receive the gift of food that you did not work for.

 

[CoreIssue]

Many scripture rules have exceptions to them.

People try to invent exceptions that do not exist to fit their own beliefs.

 

[justbyfaith]

People try to invent exceptions that do not exist to fit their own beliefs.

Ex. "With God nothing shall be impossible"; while in Hebrews 6:1-8 we find that the author of Hebrews states that there is something that is impossible. So there is an exception in either one direction or the other: either there is an exception to the nothing in the first verse mentioned (Luke 1:37), or there is an exception to what is impossible in the second passage mentioned. I believe that here, Psalms 31:22 has bearing on our perception.

 

[amadeus]

Did he ask Lazarus before raising him from the dead?

Why didn't Jesus remove the graveclothes which still bound Lazarus instead of saying what He did?

"And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go." John 11:44

Even though Jesus called the man out of the grave, the man was still bound by the clothing of death. Someone needed to remove that clothing other than Jesus!

 

[CoreIssue]

Ex. "With God nothing shall be impossible"; while in Hebrews 6:1-8 we find that the author of Hebrews states that there is something that is impossible. So there is an exception in either one direction or the other: either there is an exception to the nothing in the first verse mentioned (Luke 1:37), or there is an exception to what is impossible in the second passage mentioned. I believe that here, Psalms 31:22 has bearing on our perception.

I agree. But God does not lie or change his mind.

One Life, one death and no more.

 

[justbyfaith]

That does not mean you cannot receive the gift of food that you did not work for.

I agree with you here (as I said, I was being facetious; attempting to show the absurdity of the opposing pov by bringing up what their argument might be; which clearly doesn't hold water)