Without unconditional Election,no one would be saved.

[SovereignGrace]

Actually, I wrote that before the Lord spoke to me and led me to make the apology.

Please, don't be so quick to judge.

It turns out that here, you judged according to the outward appearance, and did not judge righteous judgment.

Define “before the Lord spoke to me” please.

 

[justbyfaith]

You guys are so egotistical it’s sickening.

You don’t need God to give you faith because you can do it yourself.
You don’t need God to give you repentance because you can do it yourself.

Misrepresenting.

The ability to believe in Him comes from Him. The ability to repent comes from Him. The ability to remain in Him comes from Him.

No doubt, I am not denying that my faith is from the Lord, Romans 10:17.

He reached down to pull me out of the pit I was in, and I, wanting to be rescued, reached up and took His hand. No virtue on my part in that. I would never have been able to get out of the pit myself, so He is the One who saved me.

 

[justbyfaith]

Total nonsense in saying we believe a person is saved before they repent and exercise faith. Please, gain better reading comprehension skills before you misquote our beliefs again.

You believe it, you just don't realize that you do. I've seen you defend it when it wasn't put in those words. Now don't call me into question on this because I probably can't go back and find the post where you did this. But I am saying to you truthfully that at least one of you did.

 

[justbyfaith]

If you are not unified in your doctrine as Calvinists, then you need to hash out your differences before coming here and trying to convert us as a group in unison.

 

[SovereignGrace]

But this is exactly what the Bible teaches:

Heb 2:9, But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

1Ti 2:5, For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6, Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

I really think that the problem is that many of you have bought into a theological construct, but do not know your Bibles well enough to see that that construct is faulty.

But no doubt, instead of continuing to take these words at face value as you did when you thought they were the words of a man, you will now attempt to reinterpret those words so that they will fit into your theology.

Because in so many people's minds, the word of God is not plain to be understood, even though He said it is in 2 Corinthians 3:12 (kjv).



Oh yes He can! He provided salvation for all; but all do not receive it. Those who reject the free gift of salvation that cost the Lord so much are insulting the Lord and will have only themselves to blame over their condemnation on the day of judgment.

I noticed you cherrypicked Hebrews 2:9, but didn’t go further. Here, let me show you...

9 But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.
10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings. 11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 saying,

“I WILL PROCLAIM YOUR NAME TO MY BRETHREN,


IN THE MIDST OF THE CONGREGATION I WILL SING YOUR PRAISE.”

13 And again,

“I WILL PUT MY TRUST IN HIM.”


And again,


“BEHOLD, I AND THE CHILDREN WHOM GOD HAS GIVEN ME”.

You can read that there is clearly a particular ppl[1 Peter 2:9] in focus here.

Those every man are...

Many sons...
Their salvation is Authored[Hebrews 12:3] by Him who died for them...
Are sanctified by Him...
He is not ashamed to call them brothers...
He will proclaim God’s name to them...

 

[SovereignGrace]

You believe it, you just don't realize that you do. I've seen you defend it when it wasn't put in those words. Now don't call me into question on this because I probably can't go back and find the post where you did this. But I am saying to you truthfully that at least one of you did.

Again, you’re lying on me. I NEVER said that, not even once. What I said is the very moment one has faith, they are saved. Now, quit your lying.

 

[justbyfaith]

I noticed you cherrypicked Hebrews 2:9,

There is a seed in every cherry (see Luke 8:11). Why don't you take the seed in question and allow it to be planted in your heart?

but didn’t go further. Here, let me show you...

9 But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.
10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings. 11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 saying,

“I WILL PROCLAIM YOUR NAME TO MY BRETHREN,


IN THE MIDST OF THE CONGREGATION I WILL SING YOUR PRAISE.”

13 And again,

“I WILL PUT MY TRUST IN HIM.”


And again,


“BEHOLD, I AND THE CHILDREN WHOM GOD HAS GIVEN ME”.

You can read that there is clearly a particular ppl[1 Peter 2:9] in focus here.

Those every man are...

Many sons...
Their salvation is Authored[Hebrews 12:3] by Him who died for them...
Are sanctified by Him...
He is not ashamed to call them brothers...
He will proclaim God’s name to them...

I'm not sure what your point is by all of this.

 

[justbyfaith]

Again, you’re lying on me. I NEVER said that, not even once. What I said is the very moment one has faith, they are saved. Now, quit your lying.

I don't think that I am. But it would be too tedious for me to prove that I'm not, so for now I will concede the point. Taking note of your moniker though; so if it becomes evident later I can and will point it out.

 

[SovereignGrace]

There is a seed in every cherry (see Luke 8:11). Why don't you take the seed in question and allow it to be planted in your heart?



I'm not sure what your point is by all of this.

Is that the ‘every man’ He tasted death for is quantified in the following verses.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I don't think that I am. But it would be too tedious for me to prove that I'm not, so for now I will concede the point. Taking note of your moniker though; so if it becomes evident later I can and will point it out.

I have never said one time ppl are saved w/o faith and repentance. That’s what happens when ppl don’t know mine(our) beliefs.

 

[justbyfaith]

Is that the ‘every man’ He tasted death for is quantified in the following verses.

You are assuming that context can change the plain meaning of a verse. "Every" means "every".

 

[justbyfaith]

I have never said one time ppl are saved w/o faith and repentance. That’s what happens when ppl don’t know mine(our) beliefs.

It is the implication of what you teach; for do you not teach that a man is saved and receives grace before he comes to faith and repentance? I know that some in your camp do. So if you disagree with them, take a stand and say that it is so. Otherwise, you are teaching with them, by implication, that a man can be saved apart from faith and repentance. (since salvation comes before faith and repentance, there is no need for the latter).

 

[justbyfaith]

I think that one of the reasons why people differ in doctrine is that they have differing hermeneutical practices, would you agree?

 

[Jun2u]

Jhn 3:18, He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

People reject the forgiveness that Christ offers; and therefore they are condemned over their sins because they have not been forgiven. So ultimately the answer to your question is, both.

John 3:18 must be read in light of Romans 3:10-11 which reads that there is none that seeketh after God no, not one!!

What part of Romans 3 do you NOT understand? God’s assessment of mankind is that no one seeks after Him the question is then, “who will believe?” N-O-N-E!!

This is the reason you do not comprehend that faith or belief is a gift!?!? Ephesians 2:8-9.

To God Be The Glory

 

[SovereignGrace]

You are assuming that context can change the plain meaning of a verse. "Every" means "every".

Wrong. Context determines this.

1:1 Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2 which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh, 4 who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name’s sake, 6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;
7 to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.[Romans 1]

Look at the word ‘all’. Is this ‘all’ everybody w/o exception? No. Is it everybody in Rome? No. Is it those beloved of God, those who are called saints? Yes. The context determines the ‘all’, ‘every man’, ‘world’, &c.

19 We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.[1 John 5]

Does the ‘whole world’, everybody w/o exception, lie in the power of the evil one? No. The ‘whole world’ here is referring to the lost, as the saved are no longer under his power and influence.

So, context determines how these words are used.

 

[SovereignGrace]

It is the implication of what you teach; for do you not teach that a man is saved and receives grace before he comes to faith and repentance? I know that some in your camp do. So if you disagree with them, take a stand and say that it is so. Otherwise, you are teaching with them, by implication, that a man can be saved apart from faith and repentance. (since salvation comes before faith and repentance, there is no need for the latter).

None of my fellow Calvinists on here peddle this doctrine. Show me where one has stated ppl are saved w/o faith & repentance. You make this claim, now back it up.

 

[SovereignGrace]

If you are not unified in your doctrine as Calvinists, then you need to hash out your differences before coming here and trying to convert us as a group in unison.

Trust me, we Calvinists are in lockstep with our soteriology. Where we differ is in eschatology and ecclesiology.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Misrepresenting.



No doubt, I am not denying that my faith is from the Lord, Romans 10:17.

He reached down to pull me out of the pit I was in, and I, wanting to be rescued, reached up and took His hand. No virtue on my part in that. I would never have been able to get out of the pit myself, so He is the One who saved me.

If you wanted to be rescued, that shows God was already working in you. That’s our point. Unless God first works in us, we would never seek Him.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

It is clear that each of us is saying that the other is going down the wrong road.

Fact is, these things are basically peripheral unless your theology is keeping you from receiving Christ as your Lord and Saviour.

I asked if you're ready to listen to the Scripture now, in context. It's either a yes or a no.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

We believe the gospel is the power of God in saving ppl. Lying about our beliefs is quite uncharitable.

That's the only way they can "prove" us wrong is lying about what we believe. He says our Gospel is magic, false &c.

Really?

We give God all the due glory for our salvation, 1 Corinthians 1:26-31. They praise themselves because they say God saw them through time pick Him, so he rewarded their effort, but they call it a gift. They merited election and salvation because (as they teach) God saw them do thus and so, which is a denial of grace.

I'd like to see him show us how exactly, when we give God all glory in salvation, that our Gospel is false, without the straw man army.