Would Jesus Support MAGA?

[rjs330]

I can understand that people don't want any RESPONSIBILITY. They'd rather not be HOT or COLD, but prefer to be LUKEWARM. I get it!
Bobby Jo

Not sure what you mean here. Sorry.

 

[Ziggy]

God's law, not man's. The OT law was all about mans spirit and his separation from God. It wasn't about politics. Why was the law written? Was it in order to set up a political party, a political point if view? Of course not. The law was written to show man sin and then provide for sin to be covered by the sacrifices made.

There was no politics involved. Did God give man a vote for his law? No. Did Moses choose the law? No. God did. No man made government was involved in the Law.

I had to look up the definition of politics.
"Politics is the set of activities that are associated with making decisions in groups, or other forms of power relations between individuals, such as the distribution of resources or status."
Why was it written?
To form a peculiar nation God called Israel.
Did God give man a vote for his law?
Yes he did.
Deu 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

choosing is a vote.

Not only did Moses choose the law, he upheld it, taught it, walked in it. And used it to create a Nation.
But if your asking did Moses write his own law then, no you are right. It has always been the Law God placed for all to vote on.

That is the OT.
Now when we get to the NT, that's where we find out the deeper spiritual meaning for the reason the law needed to be created in the first place.
That's why Jesus was an enigma to them.
What is this new doctrine your teaching?
That the Law was made to get to the heart of the matter.
Ye have heard it said, thou shalt not kill.
But I say,if you hate your brother for no reason, you already guilty.

Now we are called to be a spiritual Nation.
A Nation requires laws.
Laws and Politics walk hand in hand.
It's the formation of the Nation.
All through the Letters Paul is talking politics.

At the end of the day you can vote whether you want to be a part of this Spiritual Nation or not.
That's your choice, that's your vote.
If you walk in the latter then the former will just naturally happen.
If you don't hate your brother, you won't kill him.

That's how I understand it.
HUGS

 

[Taken]

I had to look up the definition of politics.
"Politics is the set of activities that are associated with making decisions in groups, or other forms of power relations between individuals, such as the distribution of resources or status."

Poly- prefix context- many
Tics- blood sucking creatures
Blood- LIFE of man

Among men- a wise man is considered as a good choice for GUIDANCE.

Among men who Are Politicians- they are the only choice to LEAD via DICTATION.

Among American founder Statesmen- they established Representative SERVANTS- NOT Leaders.

I would put Trump in the category of Statesman....and Biden in the category of Politician.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

I
That is the OT.
Now when we get to the NT, that's where we find out the deeper spiritual meaning for the reason the law needed to be created in the first place.

Laws ARE For the Lawless.
They set an acceptable Standard that Rest on Principles.

In the Castle (home) we Simple call them Rules.
Speaking of children;
Do not go out in the street. Period.
Principle- it a danger "to you."
Standard- "you" are not equipped "yet" to rightly deal with the standard OR comprehend the Principle.

Same applied to OT men, as infant humans.

4,000 years later- man, have you figured out Gods Principles/Standards??
Ah hah- some have- Some are still sucking the bottle in mama's basement.

Jesus spoke to All with wisdom, and to those willing to accept His wisdom, kept coming back for more.... and the Others walked away scratching their heads, unaware of what defines wisdom.

Now we are called to be a spiritual Nation.

Agree. That is Christ Jesus' outcome for the citizens of His Kingdom.

And that was the Hope of Statesmen Founders for the establishment of America.

A Nation requires laws.

A Spiritual Nation requires Few Laws Government Governing Laws.

Very Limited Authority was "Established" For a Central Government...
However over a course of history, the Central Government has become the "Establishment", that has become a "Machine" that "Plows" into every aspect of every Individual's life, with speed lightening...and the From a simple Constitution (taking up no more than 9 pages of note book paper), the Central Government HAS over 50 Volumns of Laws, and uncountable Volumns of Regulations written in words "they" redefine, (jargon), and Convoluted and Vague language, that the Public at Large and even elected Representatives and Lawyers and Judges have no clear and concise understanding of it meaning.

IMO- a worthy Sitting Congress would be in this day...Not Law-makers, but rather Law-Repealers.

Jesus wrapped up the Commandments-

Matt:22
[34] But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
[35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.
[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

This inanutshell- establishes those two commandments...as a Modern Constitution of Sorts, saying in Brief- Every Law Established should be struck pen to paper "based on" those principles and standards.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ziggy]

Laws ARE For the Lawless.
They set an acceptable Standard that Rest on Principles.

In the Castle (home) we Simple call them Rules.
Speaking of children;
Do not go out in the street. Period.
Principle- it a danger "to you."
Standard- "you" are not equipped "yet" to rightly deal with the standard OR comprehend the Principle.

Same applied to OT men, as infant humans.

4,000 years later- man, have you figured out Gods Principles/Standards??
Ah hah- some have- Some are still sucking the bottle in mama's basement.

Jesus spoke to All with wisdom, and to those willing to accept His wisdom, kept coming back for more.... and the Others walked away scratching their heads, unaware of what defines wisdom.



Agree. That is Christ Jesus' outcome for the citizens of His Kingdom.

And that was the Hope of Statesmen Founders for the establishment of America.



A Spiritual Nation requires Few Laws Government Governing Laws.

Very Limited Authority was "Established" For a Central Government...
However over a course of history, the Central Government has become the "Establishment", that has become a "Machine" that "Plows" into every aspect of every Individual's life, with speed lightening...and the From a simple Constitution (taking up no more than 9 pages of note book paper), the Central Government HAS over 50 Volumns of Laws, and uncountable Volumns of Regulations written in words "they" redefine, (jargon), and Convoluted and Vague language, that the Public at Large and even elected Representatives and Lawyers and Judges have no clear and concise understanding of it meaning.

IMO- a worthy Sitting Congress would be in this day...Not Law-makers, but rather Law-Repealers.

Jesus wrapped up the Commandments-

Matt:22
[34] But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
[35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.
[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

This inanutshell- establishes those two commandments...as a Modern Constitution of Sorts, saying in Brief- Every Law Established should be struck pen to paper "based on" those principles and standards.

Glory to God,
Taken

So the verse that came to mind was:
Gal 2:4
And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

bondage is bringing us back to worldly thinking, keeping your mind on the things of this world.
and:
Gal 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

There are 2 sets of laws. God laws and man's laws.
And Peter made it clear:
Act 5:29
Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Under the Law in the OT we were in bondage because it kept us focused on the here and now. (Physical)
The Law in the NT is what we strive to achieve focusing on the promise. (Spiritual)

Whenever man puts his own mind to things it always gets messed up.

Would God support MAGA?
Make America Great Again
Well, I guess some of those "regulations" are disappearing.
Maybe now we can get the laws realigned to the principlas of the Constitution.
Too many chefs in the kitchen if you ask me.
Once upon a time it was a requirement for congress to assemble once a year.
Now, wouldn't that be nice.
All you congress and senate people / lawyers, go home and take care of your own house/State,
before you try to govern the Country.

Thank You Taken
Hugs

 

[Taken]

So the verse that came to mind was:
Gal 2:4
And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

bondage is bringing us back to worldly thinking, keeping your mind on the things of this world.
and:
Gal 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

There are 2 sets of laws. God laws and man's laws.
And Peter made it clear:
Act 5:29
Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Under the Law in the OT we were in bondage because it kept us focused on the here and now. (Physical)
The Law in the NT is what we strive to achieve focusing on the promise. (Spiritual)

Whenever man puts his own mind to things it always gets messed up.

Would God support MAGA?
Make America Great Again
Well, I guess some of those "regulations" are disappearing.
Maybe now we can get the laws realigned to the principlas of the Constitution.
Too many chefs in the kitchen if you ask me.
Once upon a time it was a requirement for congress to assemble once a year.
Now, wouldn't that be nice.
All you congress and senate people / lawyers, go home and take care of your own house/State,
before you try to govern the Country.

Thank You Taken
Hugs

Well put.

 

[rjs330]

I had to look up the definition of politics.
"Politics is the set of activities that are associated with making decisions in groups, or other forms of power relations between individuals, such as the distribution of resources or status."
Why was it written?
To form a peculiar nation God called Israel.
Did God give man a vote for his law?
Yes he did.
Deu 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

choosing is a vote.

Not only did Moses choose the law, he upheld it, taught it, walked in it. And used it to create a Nation.
But if your asking did Moses write his own law then, no you are right. It has always been the Law God placed for all to vote on.

That is the OT.
Now when we get to the NT, that's where we find out the deeper spiritual meaning for the reason the law needed to be created in the first place.
That's why Jesus was an enigma to them.
What is this new doctrine your teaching?
That the Law was made to get to the heart of the matter.
Ye have heard it said, thou shalt not kill.
But I say,if you hate your brother for no reason, you already guilty.

Now we are called to be a spiritual Nation.
A Nation requires laws.
Laws and Politics walk hand in hand.
It's the formation of the Nation.
All through the Letters Paul is talking politics.

At the end of the day you can vote whether you want to be a part of this Spiritual Nation or not.
That's your choice, that's your vote.
If you walk in the latter then the former will just naturally happen.
If you don't hate your brother, you won't kill him.

That's how I understand it.
HUGS

All if what you said was true. BUT you are still talking about God's law and God's Kingdom. Jesus told us in John 18:36 that his kingdom was not of this world. In other words his kingdom is not worldly or governed by worldly means. It is not subject to rulers or powers of this world. It is separate from all of that. All of his commands are commands for individuals and his church. They are not commands on how to run a worldly kingdom or a worldly government.

Even in the OT the nation of Israel was supposed to be governed by God. It didn't turn political until the king's, which God gave into the people's desires. And look what happened when he did. And he warned them about it.

But again we are NOT under the law of the OT. We are under a new covenant and that covenant is absolutely not political in the way we are to be governed by a worldly government or the laws by which a government is to govern.

We should NEVER use the Bible as a source to say, we should have this law or that law. Or our government should do this or that. That goes beyond the intent of scripture.

 

[Ziggy]

All if what you said was true. BUT you are still talking about God's law and God's Kingdom. Jesus told us in John 18:36 that his kingdom was not of this world. In other words his kingdom is not worldly or governed by worldly means. It is not subject to rulers or powers of this world. It is separate from all of that. All of his commands are commands for individuals and his church. They are not commands on how to run a worldly kingdom or a worldly government.

Even in the OT the nation of Israel was supposed to be governed by God. It didn't turn political until the king's, which God gave into the people's desires. And look what happened when he did. And he warned them about it.

But again we are NOT under the law of the OT. We are under a new covenant and that covenant is absolutely not political in the way we are to be governed by a worldly government or the laws by which a government is to govern.

We should NEVER use the Bible as a source to say, we should have this law or that law. Or our government should do this or that. That goes beyond the intent of scripture.

Ya but...
I don't know it's true, I'm working it out with everybody else. At some point we may know for sure.
Maybe the "Idea" of Kingdom and what it is and what it looks like and what it's purpose is... Is where we should start.
If you can't keep your own house, it's better not to try to run another's.
So..I'll give it a shot..
Jesus IS his OWN Kingdom.
His Body/Church is His Wife.
In Christ's OWN Kingdom there are rules.
No drinking, no parties after 8pm, no friends over without permssion...
Dinner is at 6.
There are certain expectations how a wife should behave herself in His Kingdom.
I don't see a Congress or a Judiciary in His Kingdom.
Jesus is the Executive and that's that.

In the meantime, we have to live in this world.
Jhn 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Jhn 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

And we have to live with this dude:
Jhn 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
Different versions render this: No power, no hold, no claim on me.

I can definately hear Paul saying he wants to go but it is needful for him to stay.. I understand that now.
And we have to live to the best of our abilities, loving, caring, and obeying the common laws.
Render unto Ceaser that which is Ceasars, and unto God what is God's.
Don't go down the highway at 120MPH you will get a ticket.

So while we have to be here we should be the best we can, but always spiritually residing in Christ's Kingdom.
When a conflict occurs between Jesus' Kingdom and the Prince of this world, we always have to take the higher road.
And thats where tribulations and trials in this world come from.
It's a spiritual battle. No doubt about that.

I have a feeling we're both saying the same thing, just we're coming at it from different directions.
And I am enjoying the fellowship with you along this journey!
Thank You
Hugs

 

[rjs330]

Ya but...
I don't know it's true, I'm working it out with everybody else. At some point we may know for sure.
Maybe the "Idea" of Kingdom and what it is and what it looks like and what it's purpose is... Is where we should start.
If you can't keep your own house, it's better not to try to run another's.
So..I'll give it a shot..
Jesus IS his OWN Kingdom.
His Body/Church is His Wife.
In Christ's OWN Kingdom there are rules.
No drinking, no parties after 8pm, no friends over without permssion...
Dinner is at 6.
There are certain expectations how a wife should behave herself in His Kingdom.
I don't see a Congress or a Judiciary in His Kingdom.
Jesus is the Executive and that's that.

In the meantime, we have to live in this world.
Jhn 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Jhn 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

And we have to live with this dude:
Jhn 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
Different versions render this: No power, no hold, no claim on me.

I can definately hear Paul saying he wants to go but it is needful for him to stay.. I understand that now.
And we have to live to the best of our abilities, loving, caring, and obeying the common laws.
Render unto Ceaser that which is Ceasars, and unto God what is God's.
Don't go down the highway at 120MPH you will get a ticket.

So while we have to be here we should be the best we can, but always spiritually residing in Christ's Kingdom.
When a conflict occurs between Jesus' Kingdom and the Prince of this world, we always have to take the higher road.
And thats where tribulations and trials in this world come from.
It's a spiritual battle. No doubt about that.

I have a feeling we're both saying the same thing, just we're coming at it from different directions.
And I am enjoying the fellowship with you along this journey!
Thank You
Hugs

I'm beginning to think the same thing. We may be very well headed down the same path. I guess my main point is simply this. Don't use scripture to force a particular political point of view on someone. Don't use scripture to try and force laws or regulations into place. The Bible is NOT a political book telling worldly governments how they should run or which worldly government is best.

It's a book of the gospel of Jesus Christ, showing mankind the way to God and teaching believers how we should run out individual lives and how the church should operate.

It's not a book of "our government should run this way or that way.". It's not a book where we get to demand government pass this law or that one or because the Bible tells us to.

I hope this makes sense. I've seen too many believers say things like, "you are not a good Christian if you don't believe in the welfare state." And then try and use scripture to support that. That is antithetical to the point of the gospel.

 

[Ziggy]

I'm beginning to think the same thing. We may be very well headed down the same path. I guess my main point is simply this. Don't use scripture to force a particular political point of view on someone. Don't use scripture to try and force laws or regulations into place. The Bible is NOT a political book telling worldly governments how they should run or which worldly government is best.

It's a book of the gospel of Jesus Christ, showing mankind the way to God and teaching believers how we should run out individual lives and how the church should operate.

It's not a book of "our government should run this way or that way.". It's not a book where we get to demand government pass this law or that one or because the Bible tells us to.

I hope this makes sense. I've seen too many believers say things like, "you are not a good Christian if you don't believe in the welfare state." And then try and use scripture to support that. That is antithetical to the point of the gospel.

We should try to run our earthly government as closely to the spiritual until it comes.
Allowing or voting for things that would conflict with how we are to conduct ourselves is important, in my opinion.
I mean if every christian just said, I'm not voting let the world rot... it would real fast.
We are kind of a buffer against the tide of insanity.
In the USA we are the government. Or so we're told.
So we have this "kingdom" so to speak. And it is ours to have dominion over.
But when we allow "Satan" to have dominion, then we become oppressed and enslaved.
I believe everyone's vote counts. It how and for what you use it for.

Just thinking..
Hugs

 

[Mayflower]

My pastor preaches on voting this morning. Sort of goes along with this.


Forgiven Church

 

[lforrest]

We are putting in place a moratorium on any US presidential election related threads until after the election results are in, this includes any topics intended to sway political opinion. The divisiveness is getting to be too much for a Christian forum, vote as you are lead.