Would you be willing to die, for a lie?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Robert Gwin

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2021
6,888
1,587
113
69
Central Il
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Would you be willing to die, for a lie? Jesus appeared to over 500 brothers at one time, and countless others as well. The apostle Paul was a zealous persecutor of Christians, but Jesus' appeared to him, and personally selected him to be an apostle to the nations. Paul was so convinced that Jesus was resurrected he left his faith, and became a Christian. He pointed out that if Jesus was not resurrected, what would be the point? You may as well eat and drink, for tomorrow you die.

The resurrection hope is a big part of our faith, we firmly believe Jesus was resurrected because of all those who put their lives on the line to spread that good news amidst opposition.
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
9,838
4,892
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
No, I wouldn’t be willing to die for a lie.

I would be willing to die for something which I’m absolutely convinced is the truth.

Is it the truth just because I’m absolutely convinced that it is?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Robert Gwin

Robert Gwin

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2021
6,888
1,587
113
69
Central Il
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No, I wouldn’t be willing to die for a lie.

I would be willing to die for something which I’m absolutely convinced is the truth.

Is it the truth just because I’m absolutely convinced that it is?

Does the apostles, and other Christians who were willing to die in testimony of Jesus' resurrection help you to believe it is true Matt?
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
9,838
4,892
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Does the apostles, and other Christians who were willing to die in testimony of Jesus' resurrection help you to believe it is true Matt?

Yes. I obviously wasn’t there. Their witness is crucial to my faith.

What do you think about people in other religions who are willing to die for what they sincerely believe to be true but are false?
 
Last edited:

ChristisGod

Well-Known Member
Aug 15, 2020
6,912
3,864
113
64
California
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The bodily Resurrection and His appearance to them is what made all the difference for them. Paul spends the entire 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians 15 defending the gospel and it its core is the Bodily/Physical Resurrection of Jesus.
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
9,838
4,892
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
I believe it.

I have non-Christian friends and acquaintances who don’t believe it. They’ve acknowledged the apostles believed it is true and that I believe it is true (because I believe their witness) but have gone on to say that believing it is true doesn’t make it true.

A handful of them are atheists and agnostics but most of them are involved in other religions. When I’ve asked them why they are Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, Buddhist, etc. they’ve responded that they are following (what they believe is) the truth. When I put their argument (“Just because you believe it is true doesn’t make it true”) to them they typically haven’t reacted well.

We’re in similar but opposite situations. I’m willing to die for the truth which they believe is a lie and they’re willing to die - and some of them even to kill - for a lie which they believe is the truth.
 

JohnPaul

Soldier of Jehovah and Christ
Jun 10, 2019
3,274
2,567
113
New Jersey
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I have non-Christian friends and acquaintances who don’t believe it. They’ve acknowledged the apostles believed it is true and that I believe it is true (because I believe their witness) but have gone on to say that believing it is true doesn’t make it true.

A handful of them are atheists and agnostics but most of them are involved in other religions. When I’ve asked them why they are Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, Buddhist, etc. they’ve responded that they are following (what they believe is) the truth. When I put their argument (“Just because you believe it is true doesn’t make it true”) to them they typically haven’t reacted well.

We’re in similar but opposite situations. I’m willing to die for the truth which they believe is a lie and they’re willing to die - and some of them even to kill - for a lie which they believe is the truth.
I have no such associations.
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
9,838
4,892
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
I don’t waste my time with those who refuse to believe, they are doomed already.

How do we know who will refuse to believe and who will, or might, believe before we speak with them?

I’ve worked with people for years who initially refused to believe but eventually did. I’ve also worked with people for years who initially refused to believe and died without ever believing. Still others I’m working with don’t yet believe but may or may not before they die.

P.S.

I thought I should probably make it clear that I don’t think there’s anything wrong with witnessing to those who already believe. I find it commendable.
 
Last edited:

ScottA

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2011
11,767
5,608
113
www.CheeseburgersWithGod.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Would you be willing to die, for a lie? Jesus appeared to over 500 brothers at one time, and countless others as well. The apostle Paul was a zealous persecutor of Christians, but Jesus' appeared to him, and personally selected him to be an apostle to the nations. Paul was so convinced that Jesus was resurrected he left his faith, and became a Christian. He pointed out that if Jesus was not resurrected, what would be the point? You may as well eat and drink, for tomorrow you die.

The resurrection hope is a big part of our faith, we firmly believe Jesus was resurrected because of all those who put their lives on the line to spread that good news amidst opposition.
I realize this is for those who are not convinced that God and Jesus are the rescue plan for all who would like life to be more than 70-90 years ending in death. But we who do believe and know the truth, have our own problem as well: That is..some, instead of dying for a lie, live for another lie.

Jesus placed a couple forks in the road for our times, and even said that what was to come would not be what we "expect." After which both Peter and Paul foretold the reality of false teachers coming into the church that would result in a lie and strong delusion. Which is now that lie that many live for. For which being cut in two and weeping and gnashing of teeth were also foretold.

There is a great need for self examination on both accounts.
 

lforrest

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Admin
Aug 10, 2012
5,616
6,882
113
Faith
Christian
The general idea is that dying for a lie wouldn't make sense if the lie was motivated by selfishness. Because your life is more important than other potential gains from a selfish lie.

Except if you were tortured and were hoping for a swift death.

But the implication is that the disciples of Jesus couldn't be motivated to go to their own deaths except Jesus was truly as they claimed. So I would agree.
 

Robert Gwin

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2021
6,888
1,587
113
69
Central Il
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes. I obviously wasn’t there. Their witness is crucial to my faith.

What do you think about people in other religions who are willing to die for what they sincerely believe to be true but are false?


That is a great question Matt, I know what the Bible says, when Jesus returns he will remove all those who do not know God and obey the gospel, written clearly for all to see 2 Thes, 1:6-9. But time will tell because the Bible says God is love, and I certainly do not think I am better than God or more loving, but if I were judge, and a person sincerely believed he was serving God in the way He desired, and was no hypocrite living those truths in order to please God, and I might add not harming others in the process (Jn 16:2) then I would judge them worthy of life during the millennial reign of Christ. There will be no excuses at the end of the thousand yrs though when satan is released.

I hope that will be the way it is, but I certainly do not see the Bible supporting that. God sends His people out and once you are reached, He has done His part, as Beretta would say, they have the ball. Isa 2:2,3; Mat 28:19,20
 
  • Like
Reactions: Matthias

Robert Gwin

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2021
6,888
1,587
113
69
Central Il
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I realize this is for those who are not convinced that God and Jesus are the rescue plan for all who would like life to be more than 70-90 years ending in death. But we who do believe and know the truth, have our own problem as well: That is..some, instead of dying for a lie, live for another lie.

Jesus placed a couple forks in the road for our times, and even said that what was to come would not be what we "expect." After which both Peter and Paul foretold the reality of false teachers coming into the church that would result in a lie and strong delusion. Which is now that lie that many live for. For which being cut in two and weeping and gnashing of teeth were also foretold.

There is a great need for self examination on both accounts.


I certainly do not think it was Jesus Scott, rather those false teachers under satans deception. I seriously doubt that any of us has a firm grasp on what is coming, but true Christians do not have to worry, as we will be told what to do as always. God always instructs His people what to do, this upcoming destruction will be no different, and the Bible assures us that a great crowd which is innumerable will survive the coming tribulation Rev 7:9,14
 

ScottA

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2011
11,767
5,608
113
www.CheeseburgersWithGod.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I certainly do not think it was Jesus Scott, rather those false teachers under satans deception. I seriously doubt that any of us has a firm grasp on what is coming, but true Christians do not have to worry, as we will be told what to do as always. God always instructs His people what to do, this upcoming destruction will be no different, and the Bible assures us that a great crowd which is innumerable will survive the coming tribulation Rev 7:9,14
Certainly.

The reason I said what I said, is that like the multitude of Israel before the coming of Christ, we too rightly have hopes and confidence in God. But like them, we also have been blinded to His coming (just as it was foretold).

This is our hour to awaken or slumber, for which I cry out against the Pharisitical establishment who betray with a kiss and those followers who cut off the ear.
 

Robert Gwin

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2021
6,888
1,587
113
69
Central Il
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Certainly.

The reason I said what I said, is that like the multitude of Israel before the coming of Christ, we too rightly have hopes and confidence in God. But like them, we also have been blinded to His coming (just as it was foretold).

This is our hour to awaken or slumber, for which I cry out against the Pharisitical establishment who betray with a kiss and those followers who cut off the ear.

Christians are not blinded Scott Mat 13:11. satan can only blind those who are not rightly disposed for everlasting life 2 Cor 4:4; Acts 13:48
 

Ziggy

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2020
10,187
9,759
113
59
Maine, USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Jhn 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

Jhn 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
Jhn 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
Jhn 6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
Jhn 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

Imagine walking beside Jesus for 3 1/2 years. Watching his ministry, being taught his doctrine, being partakers of miracles.
And one day, you just walk away.

Peter said he believed and was sure that Jesus was That Christ, That anointed one, the Son of the living God.
The devil's believed too.

Mat 8:28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
Mat 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Rev 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
Rev 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Rev 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
Rev 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Mat 8:30 And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding.
Mat 8:31 So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.
Mat 8:32 And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.
Mat 8:33 And they that kept them fled, and went their ways into the city, and told every thing, and what was befallen to the possessed of the devils.
Mat 8:34 And, behold, the whole city came out to meet Jesus: and when they saw him, they besought him that he would depart out of their coasts.

In this life we have two choices.
We can believe man and his account of who, what, when, where, and why God is.
Or we can choose not to believe and live our lives the way we see best.
We can walk away or we can cling to what we believe is true.
We believe because Moses believed. We believe because Peter believed. We believe because Paul believed.
And all of them put their lives on the line for what they believed.

The only way you will ever know the truth is when you experience that truth for yourself.
One thing that convinces me that God is true, is that nothing can come from nothing.
From something came everything.
And I would lay my life on the line for that belief.

The idea of life after death isn't a priority for my need to believe.
What matters is NOW. To Day. Here. And what I do with the time I have been given.
My belief goes deeper than a physical ressurection from the dead.
I believe man had let all true knowledge of God die. And when Jesus came he resurrected the knowledge of God back to life.

Jhn 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

And what is eternal life?
Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Eternal life is IN the knowing.
The devil's knew what Peter knew. The devil's believed like Peter believed.
One believed unto eternal torment and the other believed unto eternal comfort and peace.
Somewhere the thought of eternal life came to mean that we would exist eternally.
Some say the devil spread this as a lie in the book of Genesis, and so Eve ate the fruit the devil handed her.
And then Adam took the fruit from Eve... and here we are.

I believe we exist because God willed us into existance so that we would know the "eternal" one from which we came.
And when we die in this material world, the spirit, that life that is in us returns to God who gave it.
Like breathing. We came forth as breath from his mouth and we return unto him again.
Will I know me as me after I leave here? I don't know.
I don't think at that point "I" or the "I" that I am now will matter.
I'll be back where I began. In God.

I think man's biggest fear is losing his own identity.
And even though we can make the claim that it is no longer I but Christ that lives in me.
It's still you, until the day you die.
That's why Paul said he dies daily. We all do, from the day we're born physically.
Spiritually speaking, putting away bad habits, walking in the path of love and kindness which is against our nature.
This is a deeper death. And the more we walk after these attributes, the greater we KNOW the eternal one and the life he gave us to live now.

I don't know about tomorrow.
But my faith doesn't rest on a belief on tomorrow. It is ever present daily in the NOW.
Because while I breathe I know eternal life and the one who it belongs to.
After I am dead...
Will I know anything at all?

IDK
Hugs