Write My Laws on Your Hearts

[CharismaticLady]

And this as we grow in love for God, and we grow in love for others . . . so sometimes we may be less than loving, but we're getting better all the time, is that it?

Much love!

Yes. That is the way I look at it. You?

 

[CharismaticLady]

1 Corinthians 4:4 "For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified"

Having a clear conscience does not mean that you are in the right.

Much love!

I agree. You are right with God, but you may not be right according to the circumstances that you do not know. Conscience is all about knowledge.

 

[marks]

I agree. You are right with God, but you may not be right according to the circumstances that you do not know. Conscience is all about knowledge.

I believe we are right with God when we've shared in Christ's death and resurrection, and not whether our conscience is excusing us, as we could be wrong, yet we are reconciled not because of our knowledge, but because of Christ's propitiatory death.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Yes. That is the way I look at it. You?

Yes, very much so.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

That's the question, isn't it?

How accurate is your conscience?

1 Corinthians 4
3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Paul apparently didn't rely on the accuracy if his ability to judge himself, and instructs us to judge nothing until the Lord come, and He will reveal everything.

He didn't consider knowing nothing against himself as adequate to know he's in the right.

But mainly it is looking at your own action or thought and would still be active.

Verb Voices in Greek refer to the direction of the action. Greek Syntax - the spelling that shows it's grammar - gives extra information, something like,

I throw the ball.

In English this doesn't tell you as much as the Koine Greek does.

• In the Active voice, this means I throw it to someone else.
• In the Middle or Reflexive voice, I throw it to myself.
• In the Passive voice, someone throws it to me.

So, again, accusing, in the Active voice, means accusing someone other than yourself. Excusing, in the Reflexive voice, means excusing yourself.

Much love!

1 Corinthians 11:

Examine Yourself
27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

 

[marks]

1 Corinthians 11:

Examine Yourself
27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

So then there IS a time and a place, but I'd still have to say, not in general.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

I believe we are right with God when we've shared in Christ's death and resurrection, and not whether our conscience is excusing us, as we could be wrong, yet we are reconciled not because of our knowledge, but because of Christ's propitiatory death.

Much love!

Yes, but that is why we live up to the level we KNOW. That way our conscience is clear. If we do something we know to be wrong, Christ is not our Advocate for that. But He does cover what we don't know.

 

[CharismaticLady]

So then there IS a time and a place, but I'd still have to say, not in general.

Much love!

That is up to you. I just happen to see it differently. Again, it comes down to willful and unintentional sins. Something I know we don't agree on. That's okay. Neither of us knows everything, Phil. 3:16, but we need to stay open to the Holy Spirit and He will eventually tell us.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Hi Chris,

I'm glad you are enjoying this, and I'm glad you jumped in!



@CadyandZoe

I think the thing I'm searching for here is the connection between the Law of God, and the conscience, as this conscience (I think we're on the same page here) is a work that the law does, or so it seems to me that the phrase means.

to ergon tou nomou written in the hearts . . . tou nomou, the law, genetive case, the law has or does a work, to ergon, and that work is written on hearts.

So maybe this is saying, the conscience is not the same thing as the Law of God, but it is something that is produced by the law of God.

?

Much love!

I think the reason why Peter had a hard time understanding Paul is because Paul's arguments are linear. He builds them one step at a time. This is to our advantage because Western culture also builds arguments in linear fashion, step-by-step. So then, if you don't mind, let's work through his argument from top down and see how he is building it.

Beginning with verse 12
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;

The statement above is like his thesis statement for this section. He simply asserts that sinners perish. Whether the individual is a Gentile without the Law or a Jew under the law, either way sinners perish. In other words, with regard to the final judgment, having the Mosaic Law does not give the Jews an advantage. He will argue later that in-so-far as knowing God's will for mankind, the Jews have an advantage in that they were given the oracles of God. But with regard to salvation, they are on the same level playing field as the Gentiles, so to speak.

13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

Here Paul begins to argue the case. He must answer why is it that sinners perish. In this paragraph, Paul will argue his case for why Gentile sinners perish. Beginning in verse 17 and continuing for two paragraphs, he will argue why it is that Jewish sinners perish. His readers and perhaps his objectors would likely agree that the Law condemns us, not for things we hear, but for things we do or fail to do. If anyone is looking for justification, they will be justified by the law if they actually do the law.

At this point, someone might raise an objection. With regard to the Gentiles, they neither hear the law or obey the law. How can a Gentile find justification in a law they don't know? In other words, is it fair for God to sentence someone to perish if he hasn't had a chance to obey divine law in the first place?

14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,

Paul grants that the Gentiles are unaware of God's law. However, he argues that although the Gentiles don't have access to the law of Moses, it isn't as if they are unaware of divine law. He says, the Gentiles instinctively do the things of the law. Though the Gentiles don't have access to the oracles of God, they have intuitively figured out a code of behavior based on objective morality.

He says that the Gentiles are "a law to themselves" and I think he is using "nomos" to mean something like covenant, agreement, or compact. Gentile jurisprudence relies on mutual agreement, whereby men agree to live by a set of laws for the mutual benefit of all. So, even though they don't have God's oracles, they have laws concerning behavior based on moral principles of right-and-wrong, fairness, and justice.

15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,

One might argue that a sinner is a person who transgresses against divine law by committing an immoral act or acts. I believe Paul is attempting to argue that Gentiles are also subject to divine justice because they adjudicate objective morality in their own minds. Divine law is universal because, being made in the image of God, all human beings intuitively know right from wrong. The work of the law, then, is manifest in the conscience of mankind where morality is adjudicated in our thoughts, which either accuse us or defend us.

16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

On judgment day, then God will judge the thoughts of men, i.e. the secrets of men, through Christ Jesus. Gentile sinners perish because they know right from wrong.

I realize this is a long post, but hopefully the answer to our question is in there somewhere. What do you think?

 

[charity]

Hi Chris,

I'm glad you are enjoying this, and I'm glad you jumped in!



@CadyandZoe

I think the thing I'm searching for here is the connection between the Law of God, and the conscience, as this conscience (I think we're on the same page here) is a work that the law does, or so it seems to me that the phrase means.

to ergon tou nomou written in the hearts . . . tou nomou, the law, genetive case, the law has or does a work, to ergon, and that work is written on hearts.

So maybe this is saying, the conscience is not the same thing as the Law of God, but it is something that is produced by the law of God.

?

Much love!

Hello @marks

I believe the law of conscience is something which every person possesses, and that the law given through Moses to Israel has nothing to do with it.

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[CadyandZoe]

Hi Chris,

I'm glad you are enjoying this, and I'm glad you jumped in!



@CadyandZoe

I think the thing I'm searching for here is the connection between the Law of God, and the conscience, as this conscience (I think we're on the same page here) is a work that the law does, or so it seems to me that the phrase means.

to ergon tou nomou written in the hearts . . . tou nomou, the law, genetive case, the law has or does a work, to ergon, and that work is written on hearts.

So maybe this is saying, the conscience is not the same thing as the Law of God, but it is something that is produced by the law of God.

?

Much love!

Here is my much shorter answer. In this context "conscience" is NOT "an inner feeling or voice viewed as acting as a guide to the rightness or wrongness of one's behavior." Rather the "conscience" is more like being endowed by the creator with the gift of moral judgment, i.e. the ability to distinguish between right and wrong. It isn't a feeling as much as it is a knowing.

 

[charity]

It reads accusing or excusing one another, not accusing or excusing self.
Galatians 6:2 KJV
[2] Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
He is the Law, the Righteousness of God within the born again.

'Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault,
ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness;
considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
But let every man prove his own work,
and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
For every man shall bear his own burden.'
(Gal 6:1-5)

Hello @Waiting on him,

Thank you for drawing my attention to this passage of Scripture, for it appears that two different words are used for the word 'burden' here. In verse 2, 'bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ', the Greek word, 'baros' is used, which refers to pressure or weight and the believer is told to assist another who is overloaded. However in verse 5, 'for every man shall bear his own burden', the Greek word, 'phortion' refers to the equipment of a soldier which can be shared with none. There are responsibilities both in life and in the Lord's service which are personal and cannot be passed on to someone else. Wisdom is needed here to discriminate between the two. The 'spirit of meekness' will avoid any idea of pride or ego.

* The law of Christ is that we love one another ( John 13:34-35; John 15:12; John 15:17 ).

With love in Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified,
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[marks]

If we do something we know to be wrong, Christ is not our Advocate for that. But He does cover what we don't know.

We'll disagree on this also. Our knowledge is imperfect, yet we are reconciled to God by Christ's death, not our knowledge, and not our behavior, to my understanding.

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

* The law of Christ is that we love one another ( John 13:34-35; John 15:12; John 15:17 ).

Very much agreed!
Scripture States we shouldn’t need a written letter to know or perform this.
It’s taught of God.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I think the reason why Peter had a hard time understanding Paul is because Paul's arguments are linear. He builds them one step at a time. This is to our advantage because Western culture also builds arguments in linear fashion, step-by-step. So then, if you don't mind, let's work through his argument from top down and see how he is building it.

Beginning with verse 12
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;

The statement above is like his thesis statement for this section. He simply asserts that sinners perish. Whether the individual is a Gentile without the Law or a Jew under the law, either way sinners perish. In other words, with regard to the final judgment, having the Mosaic Law does not give the Jews an advantage. He will argue later that in-so-far as knowing God's will for mankind, the Jews have an advantage in that they were given the oracles of God. But with regard to salvation, they are on the same level playing field as the Gentiles, so to speak.

13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

Here Paul begins to argue the case. He must answer why is it that sinners perish. In this paragraph, Paul will argue his case for why Gentile sinners perish. Beginning in verse 17 and continuing for two paragraphs, he will argue why it is that Jewish sinners perish. His readers and perhaps his objectors would likely agree that the Law condemns us, not for things we hear, but for things we do or fail to do. If anyone is looking for justification, they will be justified by the law if they actually do the law.

At this point, someone might raise an objection. With regard to the Gentiles, they neither hear the law or obey the law. How can a Gentile find justification in a law they don't know? In other words, is it fair for God to sentence someone to perish if he hasn't had a chance to obey divine law in the first place?

14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,

Paul grants that the Gentiles are unaware of God's law. However, he argues that although the Gentiles don't have access to the law of Moses, it isn't as if they are unaware of divine law. He says, the Gentiles instinctively do the things of the law. Though the Gentiles don't have access to the oracles of God, they have intuitively figured out a code of behavior based on objective morality.

He says that the Gentiles are "a law to themselves" and I think he is using "nomos" to mean something like covenant, agreement, or compact. Gentile jurisprudence relies on mutual agreement, whereby men agree to live by a set of laws for the mutual benefit of all. So, even though they don't have God's oracles, they have laws concerning behavior based on moral principles of right-and-wrong, fairness, and justice.

15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,

One might argue that a sinner is a person who transgresses against divine law by committing an immoral act or acts. I believe Paul is attempting to argue that Gentiles are also subject to divine justice because they adjudicate objective morality in their own minds. Divine law is universal because, being made in the image of God, all human beings intuitively know right from wrong. The work of the law, then, is manifest in the conscience of mankind where morality is adjudicated in our thoughts, which either accuse us or defend us.

16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

On judgment day, then God will judge the thoughts of men, i.e. the secrets of men, through Christ Jesus. Gentile sinners perish because they know right from wrong.

I realize this is a long post, but hopefully the answer to our question is in there somewhere. What do you think?

The key is "written on their hearts." Obviously, this epistle was written after Cornelius, a Gentile, was given the Holy Spirit. The Spirit given by Jesus to those who accept Him, is the only way a Gentile would have the eternal laws of God written on their hearts. Conclusion? Romans 2 Gentile is a Christian.

 

[CharismaticLady]

We'll disagree on this also. Our knowledge is imperfect, yet we are reconciled to God by Christ's death, not our knowledge, and not our behavior, to my understanding.

Much love!

Keep your mind open, friend. I'm convinced of Jesus not being our Advocate for willful sins of lawlessness. Notice, no repentance is required in 1 John 2:1. Hebrews 10:26-31. Known sin would require for Christ to die again, or at least to repent. It would be up to God to grant them repentance or not.

 

[marks]

I think the reason why Peter had a hard time understanding Paul is because Paul's arguments are linear. He builds them one step at a time. This is to our advantage because Western culture also builds arguments in linear fashion, step-by-step. So then, if you don't mind, let's work through his argument from top down and see how he is building it.

Beginning with verse 12
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;

The statement above is like his thesis statement for this section. He simply asserts that sinners perish. Whether the individual is a Gentile without the Law or a Jew under the law, either way sinners perish. In other words, with regard to the final judgment, having the Mosaic Law does not give the Jews an advantage. He will argue later that in-so-far as knowing God's will for mankind, the Jews have an advantage in that they were given the oracles of God. But with regard to salvation, they are on the same level playing field as the Gentiles, so to speak.

13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

Here Paul begins to argue the case. He must answer why is it that sinners perish. In this paragraph, Paul will argue his case for why Gentile sinners perish. Beginning in verse 17 and continuing for two paragraphs, he will argue why it is that Jewish sinners perish. His readers and perhaps his objectors would likely agree that the Law condemns us, not for things we hear, but for things we do or fail to do. If anyone is looking for justification, they will be justified by the law if they actually do the law.

At this point, someone might raise an objection. With regard to the Gentiles, they neither hear the law or obey the law. How can a Gentile find justification in a law they don't know? In other words, is it fair for God to sentence someone to perish if he hasn't had a chance to obey divine law in the first place?

14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,

Paul grants that the Gentiles are unaware of God's law. However, he argues that although the Gentiles don't have access to the law of Moses, it isn't as if they are unaware of divine law. He says, the Gentiles instinctively do the things of the law. Though the Gentiles don't have access to the oracles of God, they have intuitively figured out a code of behavior based on objective morality.

He says that the Gentiles are "a law to themselves" and I think he is using "nomos" to mean something like covenant, agreement, or compact. Gentile jurisprudence relies on mutual agreement, whereby men agree to live by a set of laws for the mutual benefit of all. So, even though they don't have God's oracles, they have laws concerning behavior based on moral principles of right-and-wrong, fairness, and justice.

15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,

One might argue that a sinner is a person who transgresses against divine law by committing an immoral act or acts. I believe Paul is attempting to argue that Gentiles are also subject to divine justice because they adjudicate objective morality in their own minds. Divine law is universal because, being made in the image of God, all human beings intuitively know right from wrong. The work of the law, then, is manifest in the conscience of mankind where morality is adjudicated in our thoughts, which either accuse us or defend us.

16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

On judgment day, then God will judge the thoughts of men, i.e. the secrets of men, through Christ Jesus. Gentile sinners perish because they know right from wrong.

I realize this is a long post, but hopefully the answer to our question is in there somewhere. What do you think?

I think this helps.

OK. The work of the law is written on the gentiles hearts.

That which the law produces.

The Law works wrath, because it condemns, because it brings knowledge of right and wrong.

Romans 4
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Genesis 3:22 "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil . . ."

Much love!

 

[marks]

Hello @marks

I believe the law of conscience is something which every person possesses, and that the law given through Moses to Israel has nothing to do with it.

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

I would agree with this.

Maybe we can connect the dots like this . . . the work of the law written on our hearts . . . the law works wrath (Romans 4) because if gives knowledge of right and wrong, just like the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Your thoughts?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Keep your mind open, friend. I'm convinced of Jesus not being our Advocate for willful sins of lawlessness. Notice, no repentance is required in 1 John 2:1. Hebrews 10:26-31. Known sin would require for Christ to die again, or at least to repent. It would be up to God to grant them repentance or not.

We've been reconciled by His death. That doesn't change. Either it's by Jesus' death, or not.

He didn't rescue us to throw us back. This is God getting what He wants. He knows He has to fix us.

And I still maintain, the only difference between "intentional" and "unintentional" sin is self-awareness. Sin is sin, all sin falls short of God's glory.

The Law of Love. Who loves perfectly all the time?? I don't! And I could!

Consider this . . . IF God empowers us to love perfectly all the time, and we can, in Him, right? If God empowers us to love perfectly all the time, and we don't, it's at the very least because we did not choose to trust Him for the outworking of His love through us.

By choosing to trust Him right now, I walk in the Spirit, and walking in the Spirit, I don't do the works for the flesh. But any time I fail to love others, to love Him, in the way He wants, this means I've failed to trust Him in that moment.

We can slip into this unawares, but we can also be self-aware and realize when our faith is faltering, and we aren't walking in the Spirit.

Ephesians 4
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

Put on the new man, and stop lying, he says. Lying did not cast them away. Yet how do you lie and not know it?

Much love!

 

[marks]

The key is "written on their hearts." Obviously, this epistle was written after Cornelius, a Gentile, was given the Holy Spirit. The Spirit given by Jesus to those who accept Him, is the only way a Gentile would have the eternal laws of God written on their hearts. Conclusion? Romans 2 Gentile is a Christian.

Remember though, he doesn't say "the eternal laws of God are written on their hearts, rather, "the work of the law", that is, that which is produced by the law.

Much love!