Y do U believe what U believe, and do U have good reasons 4 those beliefs? - let's find out.

[amadeus]

The Scriptures are very clear on what Jesus came to do - to free us from sin. The false teachings out there are that we as Christians will "always sin" and we will "always be in the flesh" and "if we say we have no sin we are liars" are doctrines of demons. I believe the opposite of these lies. That is not something I have to hold lightly.

In spite of our similarities as believers, we are not exactly the same for different reasons... such as our level of maturity and our function in the Body of the Christ.

I see that in addition to the things we hold onto by faith... if we are growing toward God... we also hold onto some things that we know. As we grow toward God the things of knowledge should gradually be replacing those of faith, "faith being the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen". This is also written speaking the end of faith:

"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith..." Heb 12:2

When His work in us is finished, then where will the faith be and where the knowledge? Now while we see as through a glass darkly we have both the faith and the knowledge, and when and if we attain to the "face to face" vision it will no longer be by faith.

For the part we hold by faith, if we hold too tightly before it is knowledge... presuming that it will become knowledge (anything held in error by faith will be removed) … we may hinder the work of the Holy Spirit within us to overcome everything that still needs to be overcome. Of course, if a person were already an overcomer as Jesus was an overcomer, then this would not apply to him. I am not yet in that place.

 

[bbyrd009]

These might help/assist (if not, I may present many scriptures if you desire that instead, let me know):

i was what you would deem "saved" prolly ten years before you were born, ok
wadr you dont even know what you dont know yet
happy turkey day

 

[ReChoired]

just finished about ten years of wandering, not really a part of US culture so "outlying" seemed apropos then. Glenwood Springs Colo now ...

Thanks.

 

[CharismaticLady]

In spite of our similarities as believers, we are not exactly the same for different reasons... such as our level of maturity and our function in the Body of the Christ.

I see that in addition to the things we hold onto by faith... if we are growing toward God... we also hold onto some things that we know. As we grow toward God the things of knowledge should gradually be replacing those of faith, "faith being the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen". This is also written speaking the end of faith:

"Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith..." Heb 12:2

When His work in us is finished, then where will the faith be and where the knowledge? Now while we see as through a glass darkly we have both the faith and the knowledge, and when and if we attain to the "face to face" vision it will no longer be by faith.

For the part we hold by faith, if we hold too tightly before it is knowledge... presuming that it will become knowledge (anything held in error by faith will be removed) … we may hinder the work of the Holy Spirit within us to overcome everything that still needs to be overcome. Of course, if a person were already an overcomer as Jesus was an overcomer, then this would not apply to him. I am not yet in that place.

Are you really implying I'm not as mature as you in the Lord, when I am only three years younger than you and have been a Christian all my life? What is your function?

 

[ReChoired]

...
I will never leave you nor forsake you
so in Christ we who are many are one body
(we are the body of Christ) ...

He is here with us by His representative that was sent in His name:

Joh 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

Joh_14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Joh 14:29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

Joh_20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Later on, after 40 days:

Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

Luk 24:50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
Luk 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Joh 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

Luk_19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned [G1880], having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

(G5290, means: to return, to go back to once again, to come back again, revisit a previous visited location, as in Luke 2:43, 4:14)

The texts:

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Paul refers to the second Advent of Jesus Christ when he says “by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ” and further by adding, “and [by] our gathering together unto him”, which are similar to the passages of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 [see also Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:27]:

Isaiah 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Compare:

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1 Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The King James English word “coming” is translated from [G3952], “παρουσία”, “parousia”.and may be seen in many other passages [see also 1 Corinthians 16:17; 2 Corinthians 7:6-7, 10:10; Philippians 1:26, 2:12 KJB]:

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

1 Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1 Thessalonians 2:19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

James 5:8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

2 Peter 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

There are also many other words that also describe Jesus' visible, physical, audible, tumultuous, glorious, triumphant and literal return at the Father's appointed time:

[1] 'to come and/or arrive', [G2064], “ἔρχομαι” “erchomai” [Matthew 24:30, 26:64; John 14:3; 1 Corinthians 11:26; Revelation. 1:7],

[2] 'to appear visibly', [G3700], “ὀπτάνομαι”, “optanomai” [Hebrews 9:28],

[3] 'to return', [G360], “ἀναλύω”, “analyō” [Luke 12:36],

[4] 'to reveal', [G602], “ἀποκάλυψις”, “apokalypsis” [2 Thessalonians 1:7; 1 Peter 1:7; Luke 17:29-30],

[5] 'to manifest', [G2015], “ἐπιφάνεια”, “epiphaneia” [1 Timothy 6:14; 2 Timothy 4:8; Titus 2:13],

[6] 'make manifest', [G5319], “φανερόω”, “phaneroō” [1 Peter 5:4],

[7] 'come', [G2240], “ἥκω”, “hēkō” [Revelation 2:25],

[8] 'to return', [G5290], “ὑποστρέφω”, “hypostrephō” [Luke 19:12].

See also:

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

Luke 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The next text:

2 Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

 

[ReChoired]

just finished about ten years of wandering, not really a part of US culture so "outlying" seemed apropos then. Glenwood Springs Colo now
ya, prolly not.
and i already read the brochure ok, but ty. I know you mean well
if you ever find Jesus "returning" in the orig languages--not scribed up English iow--lemme know k ...

I find that all who do not desire responses, do not respond in this thread. Please see previous post about 'returning' in the original languages, which means nothing to God, since He is the author of language, and may translate from one language to another, even as He does in the OT and NT. See Jesus speaking Hebrew to Paul in Acts 9, and yet it is recorded in translation into koine Greek (which means you have a standard which is not founded in scripture itself). The same can be said of many other such places in scripture.

 

[ReChoired]

...he who says he knows does not yet know as he ought ...

That is self-contradictory, even on the face of it. By saying it, the person is claiming to 'know' it, and yet the second half contradicts the first.

 

[amadeus]

Yeah, there is that! Lol...I cannot say much about these verses as the meaning has not sunk in yet...I simply do not understand them and cannot seem to separate the literal from the figurative John...All I can come up with right now is that, God's true followers DO have the Kingdom of God inside them (Holy Spirit and His Word)...unbelievers do not so...until He wipes out all of His enemies then we will see the fruition of the true Kingdom on this Earth?

This is why I so many years ago found it necessary to empty myself when I come before God each morning. Some people decided a long time ago what heaven was and where it was located. A lot of people now believe what those others decided so long ago without seriously checking in with God about it. Is this Kingdom of God or the Kingdom of Heaven cited in the scriptures the same heaven of which so many people and denominations speak? Maybe, but try to take it from nothing and where God leads you.

Remember this verse that our friend @bbyrd009 periodically alludes to:

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven" John 3:13
Jesus was always in a heaven, but which one at which time? He certainly started in 3rd heaven until he lowered himself. We enter heaven, 1st heaven, when we really repent that first time... and from there?

Without dissecting the above verse to carefully, what I see in it is Jesus being in the three heavens, 1st, 2nd and 3rd. So "where" is heaven located? But... don't just take what I say I believe about it either! Only consider and talk with God about it:

In the very lowest or 1st heaven we have repented but remain an unclean animal [bottom of Noah's ark]
In the 2nd or middle heaven we have allowed God in us to clean us up making us a clean animal but we have NOT overcome the basic animal [beast-like] instincts which in a man lead to sin and death [middle level of Noah's ark]
In the 3rd heaven we have allow God in us to kill [overcome] all of the basic animal instincts and in any moment we are there, we are like Jesus who has overcome the world [top level of Noah's ark]. All of our beasts have been killed [Prov 9:1-2]

 

[amadeus]

Are you really implying I'm not as mature as you in the Lord, when I am only three years younger than you and have been a Christian all my life? What is your function?

I was implying nothing about you. I was simply describing what I believe generally.

Physical age may be a factor in our maturity in the Lord, but sometimes very young people in the flesh may be more mature in the Lord than a physically much older person. The ability or duty to assign to you or anyone else a level of maturity in God is not mine and I would not presume to do that. It is not in my job description.

 

[ReChoired]

...
"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven" John 3:13
Jesus was always in a heaven ...

Context? His (Jesus) mind/heart was always upon His Father (who was in the 3rd Heaven, a real physical place), thus was He always "in Heaven". See also John 8:29; Philippians 3:20; Colossians 3:1-2; Philippians 4:8; Hebrews 12:2. We are to be the same, as we look unto Jesus, who is in the 3rd Heaven.

In the very lowest or 1st heaven ... In the 2nd or middle heaven ... In the 3rd heaven ...

Scripturally speaking:

[1] Atmosphere of air: Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.​

[2] Local Solar System with its stars/planets: Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

Gen 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,​

[3] Where God dwells: 2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.​

(third heaven; a real place up from here, beyond the first and second heaven, where God actually sits upon His throne with all the universe circling the throne of Deity)

Real places, real spaces. Why do people continually spiritualize everything, making the word of God of none effect?

 

[ScottA]

You have a misunderstanding of koine Greek. It doesn't need (require) an 'indefinite article'. The context determines the translation from koine Greek. Many such places if you look, and same also for definite article. The translators of the King James were excellent scholars in this area, and knew the languages. So-called 'modern' versions absolutely spiritualize away God, into nothingness. For instance, others have stated:

I was merely letting you go on and on, drawing you out into the light. But you got nothing, and only reveal your complete learned lack of understanding.

You have posted volumes in an attempt to glorify a manufactured god of flesh and blood, against the Spirit. The non-word "spiritualize" is usually the give away. Whether you want to make a case for "God is [a] spirit" or are satisfied with not making issue of the "a" or not, you are still speaking against the Spirit. Your anti-spirit campaign is unforgivable. This is not debatable. If you want to continue in it, you will pay the ultimate price.

Ironically, salvation, eternal life, and entering the kingdom of God actually require complete spiritualizing, that is: being born again of the spirit of God. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." And you have made your choice.

So be it.

 

[ScottA]

You have a misunderstanding of koine Greek. It doesn't need (require) an 'indefinite article'. The context determines the translation from koine Greek. Many such places if you look, and same also for definite article. The translators of the King James were excellent scholars in this area, and knew the languages. So-called 'modern' versions absolutely spiritualize away God, into nothingness. For instance, others have stated:

"... PERSONALITY OF GOD

MAN was made in the image of God. "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness." "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him." Gen.i,26,27. See also chap.ix,6; 1Cor.xi,7. Those who deny the personality of God, say that "image" here does not mean physical form, but moral image, and they make this the grand starting point to prove the immortality of all men. The argument stands thus: First, man was made in God's moral image. Second, God is an immortal being. Third, therefore all men are immortal. But this mode of reasoning would also prove man omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, and thus clothe mortal man with all the attributes of the deity. Let us try it: First, man was made in God's moral image. Second, God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. Third, therefore, man is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. That which proves too much, proves nothing to the point, therefore the position that the image of God means his moral image, cannot be sustained. As proof that God is a person, read his own words to Moses: "And the Lord said, Behold there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock; and it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a cleft of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by. And I will take away mine hand and thou shalt see my [2] back parts; but my face shall not be seen." Ex.xxxiii,21-23. See also chap.xxiv,9-11. Here God tells Moses that he shall see his form. To say that God made it appear to Moses that he saw his form, when he has no form, is charging God with adding to falsehood a sort of juggling deception upon his servant Moses. {1861 JW, PERGO 1.1}

But the skeptic thinks he sees a contradiction between verse 11, which says that the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, and verse 20, which states that Moses could not see his face. But let Num.xii,5-8 remove the difficulty. "And the Lord came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam, and they both came forth. And he said, Hear now my words. If there be a prophet among you, I, the Lord, will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream. My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house. With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently." {1861 JW, PERGO 2.1}

The great and dreadful God came down, wrapped in a cloud of glory. This cloud could be seen, but not the face which possesses more dazzling brightness than a thousand suns. Under these circumstances Moses was permitted to draw near and converse with God face to face, or mouth to mouth, even apparently. {1861 JW, PERGO 2.2}

Says the prophet Daniel, "I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hairs of his head like the pure wool; his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire." Chap.vii,9. "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him, and [3] there was given him dominion and glory and a kingdom." Verses 13, 14. {1861 JW, PERGO 2.3}

Here is a sublime description of the action of two personages; viz, God the Father, and his Son Jesus Christ. Deny their personality, and there is not a distinct idea in these quotations from Daniel. In connection with this quotation read the apostle's declaration that the Son was in the express image of his Father's person. "God, who at sundry times, and in divers manners, spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person." Heb.i,1-3. {1861 JW, PERGO 3.1}

We here add the testimony of Christ. "And the Father himself which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape." John v,37. See also Phil.ii,6. To say that the Father has not a personal shape, seems the most pointed contradiction of plain scripture terms.

OBJECTION. - "God is a Spirit." John iv,24. {1861 JW, PERGO 3.2}

ANSWER. - Angels are also spirits [Ps.civ,4], yet those that visited Abram and Lot, lay down, ate, and took hold of Lot's hand. They were spirit beings. So is God a Spirit being. {1861 JW, PERGO 3.3}

OBJ. - God is everywhere. Proof. Ps.cxxxix,1-8. He is as much in every place as in any one place. {1861 JW, PERGO 3.4}

ANS. - 1. God is everywhere by virtue of his omniscience, as will be seen by the very words of David referred to above. Verses 1-6. "O Lord, thou hast searched me, and known me. Thou knowest my down-sitting and mine uprising; thou understandest my thought afar off. Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways. For there is not a [4] word in my tongue, but, lo, O Lord, thou knowest it altogether. Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thy hand upon me. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me. It is high; I cannot attain unto it." {1861 JW, PERGO 3.5}

2. God is everywhere by virtue of his Spirit, which is his representative, and is manifested wherever he pleases, as will be seen by the very words the objector claims, referred to above. Verses 7-10. "Whither shall I go from thy Spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there; if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me." {1861 JW, PERGO 4.1}

God is in heaven. This we are taught in the Lord's prayer. "Our Father which art in heaven." Matt.vi,9; Luke xi,2. But if God is as much in every place as he is in any one place, then heaven is also as much in every place as it is in any one place, and the idea of going to heaven is all a mistake. We are all in heaven; and the Lord's prayer, according to this foggy theology simply means, Our Father which art everywhere, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth, as it is everywhere. {1861 JW, PERGO 4.2}

Again, Bible readers have believed that Enoch and Elijah were really taken up to God in heaven. But if God and heaven be as much in every place as in any one place, this is all a mistake. They were not translated. And all that is said about the chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and the attending whirlwind to take Elijah up into heaven, was a useless parade. They only evaporated, and a misty vapor passed through the entire universe. This is all of Enoch and Elijah that the mind can possibly grasp, admitting that God and heaven are [5] no more in any one place than in every place. But it is said of Elijah that he "went up by a whirlwind into heaven." 2Kings ii,11. And of Enoch it is said that he "walked with God, and was not, for God took him." Gen.v,24. {1861 JW, PERGO 4.3}

Jesus is said to be on the right hand of the Majesty on high." Heb.i,3. "So, then, after the Lord had spoken unto them he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God." Mark xvi,19. But if heaven be everywhere, and God everywhere, then Christ's ascension up to heaven, at the Father's right hand, simply means that he went everywhere! He was only taken up where the cloud hid him from the gaze of his disciples, and then evaporated and went everywhere! So that instead of the lovely Jesus, so beautifully described in both Testaments, we have only a sort of essence dispersed through the entire universe. And in harmony with this rarified theology, Christ's second advent, or his return, would be the condensation of this essence to some locality, say the mount of Olivet! Christ arose from the dead with a physical form. "He is not here," said the angel, "for he is risen as he said." Matt.xxviii,6. {1861 JW, PERGO 5.1}

"And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail! And they came and held him by the feet, and they worshiped him." Verse 9. {1861 JW, PERGO 5.2}

"Behold my hands and my feet," said Jesus to those who stood in doubt of his resurrection, "that it is I myself. Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have. And when he had thus spoken, he showed them his hands and his feet. And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? And they gave him a piece of broiled fish, and of an honey-comb, and he took it and did eat before them." Luke xxiv,39-43. {1861 JW, PERGO 5.3} [6]

After Jesus addressed his disciples on the mount of Olivet, he was taken up from them, and a cloud received him out of their sight. "And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold two men stood by them in white apparel, which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." Acts i,9-11. J. W. {1861 JW, PERGO 6.1} ..."

Blah, blah, blah..

 

[ScottA]

You seem to overlook the two words used in Genesis, "image" and "likeness" and the two are not the same. If you would do a study on these two words throughout scripture, you will notice something about them, as I have so done. Please, take some time, and let me know what you find, and then I can share what I have found therein and we can compare.

No...you have missed it completely, and are under some twisted imagination that God is not perfect as He is being completely spirit, and that the flesh is "glorified" making men a form of hybrid more perfect than God Himself.

But of course that is crazy wrong, for what is actually true, is that we are to become like Him: perfect, spirit.

 

[ScottA]

I have even already, which is why I share the scriptures I do, and believe what I now believe, and so worship the living God in heart (spirit) and in deed (truth).

You [only] "believe", but in error you do not know.

 

[ReChoired]

Blah, blah, blah..

This was the point of this thread. To see how far one was willing to consider their belief, in the light of some testing, prodding. ScottA do you see Jesus anywhere in scripture replying as you have here?

Is your reply an actual rebuttal to the scriptural evidence and logic provided? It is plainly not. It is called 'hand-waving', or outright dismissal, and should I take that reply as a serious counter to what is presented, or to the belief held? Do you think that your reply would bring someone to change their mind about what they believe, or do you think that your reply would solidify that belief?

 

[farouk]

Is the person who left you, now divorced from you? If so, since that person committed adultery, and is divorced, you are free to marry whom you will, only in the Lord. If you are not divorced, you are hoping for the return of this person to the marriage? If not, you are binding yourself and Acts 15 has nothing to say about that, only speaks to 'fornication'. You can choose to remain single, but that is your choice, for there is no scripture binding you to that position.

Various passages in the New Testament seem to say the opposite when I read them.

 

[Stranger]

Then perhaps you might address the questions that farouk did not?

I would be interested in your answers.

(Matthew 2:15) is citing (Hosea 11:1).

(Matthew 2:15) states that Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of (Hosea 11:1)

Stranger

 

[ReChoired]

Various passages in the New Testament seem to say the opposite when I read them.

See Question 1 - PowerPoint Study Marriage and Remarriage and Divorce

 

[ReChoired]

(Matthew 2:15) is citing (Hosea 11:1).

(Matthew 2:15) states that Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of (Hosea 11:1)

Stranger

Thank you, that is 2 out of 3 questions answered.

 

[Stranger]

Thank you, that is 2 out of 3 questions answered.

Your third question didn't make sense as you called a nation a person. Hosea was describing the nation Israel.

Stranger