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TallMan

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Let's look at the passage in Acts & those in 1Cor separately for a minute. Overall, I think this was a one time event in the past. But if I ever found myself, in a land where English isn't spoken. It would be a useful gift to have. And God may yet, have need that this reoccurs in the future.
I advise you to get to know the scriptures a bit better . . . in Acts 10:44-46 when the gentiles speak in tongues in front of Peter (who doesn't know languages, he's just an unlearned fisherman), it was described as the SAME as at Pentecost (Acts 11:14-18)Similarly in Acts 19.(Nova;20835)
Moving forward to the passages in 1Cor. In 1Cor 12, he mentions the various gifts. And it is clear that not every Christian has the same gifts. . . .My hunch . . .
In fact it says "to ONE is given .. . wisdom, to another .. . knowledge .. . faith .. tongues" (12:8-12)Do you believe that only one/some christians get knowledge, faith etc too?Or is this passage not referring to what different people get when they become christians?
 

Nova

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Thank you for pointing our the passage in Acts 10. It is the same as described on the Day of Pentecost. Good to know & glad you informed me.But I still don't agree with the way you are interpreting 1Cor 12. If you read the whole chapter it is clear that different Christians get different gifts. Otherwise why did Paul spend so much time emphasizing that exact point? 14Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. 15If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body. 21The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!" 22On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it. 27Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31But eagerly desire the greater gifts.
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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Thank you for pointing our the passage in Acts 10. It is the same as described on the Day of Pentecost. Good to know & glad you informed me.But I still don't agree with the way you are interpreting 1Cor 12. If you read the whole chapter it is clear that different Christians get different gifts. Otherwise why did Paul spend so much time emphasizing that exact point? 14Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. 15If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body. 21The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!" 22On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it. 27Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31But eagerly desire the greater gifts.
Nova, I don't even like the way Tallman twist scriptures to suit his own desire. The scriptures in I Corinthians 12 clearly, I mean clearly says that NOT all of us will have the same gift.JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
 

Christina

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TallmanI know you see what you like in scripture but for the sake of your very soul Listen to me closely because it is very importantTHE MIRACLE IN ACTS HAS ABSOULUTY NOTHING NOTTA ZERO TO DO WITH THE WITH TONGUE OF 1COR.12-14 THEY ARE APPLES AND ORANGES GET THAT STRAIGHT IN YOUR MINDIT IS ABSURD AND ARROGANT FOR YOU TO ACQUATAINT THE LANGUAGES OF 1COR.WITH THE CLOVEN TONGUE OF FIRE OF GOD THIS WAS ONE OF THE MAJOR MIRACLESIN THE BIBLE SUCH A SPEACIAL MIRACLE THAT WE STILL RECONIZE THE HOLY DAY OF PENECOSTHow dare you compare the lowly gift of gibberish with the Holy spirit of GodThis was God himself speaking through the prophets to prophesies(witch means teach)his new church NOTHING IN YOUR GIBBERISH EVEN HOLDS A PALE COMPARISIONThey are no more similar than a preacher today that practices healing and then comparing himself to Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead.You want to defend your gibberish confusion with using 1 Cor. we can debate your confusion forever. BUT I FIND IT EXTREMLY INSULTING FOR YOU TO DARE USE THE MIRACLE OF ACTS IN YOUR DEFENCE
 

TallMan

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Jul 20, 2007
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Thank you for pointing our the passage in Acts 10. It is the same as described on the Day of Pentecost. Good to know & glad you informed me.But I still don't agree with the way you are interpreting 1Cor 12. If you read the whole chapter it is clear that different Christians get different gifts. Otherwise why did Paul spend so much time emphasizing that exact point?
Every true Christian (someone who has received the infilling of God's Spirit) has Jesus Christ inside. You cannot have Jesus without his mind, strength, love or other attributes! Paul begins the letter by making this exact point (1:4-7).That's why there needs to be limitation and order when all these people meet - which is precisely what this passage is addressing - "gifts" of tongues, words of wisdom, knowledge etc are the meetings-use (giving to the church) of what all christians have for private use - "one" speaking at a time, otherwise there is confusion:-" to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith .. . tongues . . interpretation . .. "(12:8-12)So, if you believe only some christians speak in tongues from this passage, then do you also believe that only some have wisdom, only some have knowledge, only some have faith? Is that what you believe Nova??No-one seems willing or able to answer this simple question!Please begin by answering it clearly.* * * So, like all my brothers & sisters, I pray in tongues privately, but in a meeting, I may or may not receive "a gift of tongues".Similarly for wisdom, knowledge etc.
 

Christina

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Apr 10, 2006
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l cor 12 is talking about speaking other languages German, French,Spannish and thus allowing you to preach ,teach, prophesies to other people who speak these languagesIT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD FILLING YOU any more or less or differently than a good preacher devotes his life to Gods word It is no different than me going to school and learning Chinese so I could go to China and preach this is the gift being able to teach Gods word to people who do not speak your languageIT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GIBBERISH THAT NO ONE UNDERSTANDS THIS IS CONFUSION AND GOD IS NOT THE AUTHOR OF CONFUSION you twist a verse here and there to say what you want to hear and ignore everything else the Word has to say about that doesnt suit you.God only uses this for teaching (prophesizing) Not for Voodoo and chanting unknown words. It telling you God spirit needs to be with you to be a good teacher,interpeter thats the evidence God is within you NOT SPEAKING BABBLE (witch by the way means confusion)
 

Christina

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Apr 10, 2006
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After typing this, I felt moved that it will reoccur in the future. My hunch is that the 2 witnesses in Revelation will be understood by any listener (in their own language.) This is not expressly said in scripture, it is just a feeling I have.
This is a great thought I had not had before Nova I too after reading this feel it may very well be true as the wittness will have to be understood by all nationalities and languages to preach to the entire World. Just as in Acts ninteen different languages were present and each understood in their own tongue(language).
 

Nova

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" to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith .. . tongues . . interpretation . .. "(12:8-12)So, if you believe only some christians speak in tongues from this passage, then do you also believe that only some have wisdom, only some have knowledge, only some have faith? Is that what you believe Nova??
Yes, bear with me & I will try to explain. All Christians have the Holy Spirit indwelling in them. All Christians are expected to grow in God. And develop character & compassion that leads us to becoming "more like Christ" & less like our old natures. Attributes like kindness, patience, endurance, faithfulness (both to God & our fellow Christians), knowledge, wisdom, etc.Each Christian in unique. God isn't in the business of making "cookie cutter" people. We each have specific talents based on our personal makeup. And we each are given certain unique gifts by the Spirit, above & beyond what I mention above. The focus is that these are "gifts", ie we don't earn them or work for them. And that The Spirit gives them.For example, I have a friend who can, in under 15 minutes, diffuse hostility. Consistently she turns situations away from confrontation & anger. I feel this is a unique gift from the Spirit. Because even if I applied myself everyday to aquiring this talent; I'd never reach what she has. Because her skill is above & beyond what comes from learning, study or even practice.Likewise, I think each of the gifts is a special divinely given talent. Each representing a special annointing in a given area. Not aquired thru work or study. But solely as a gift. All designed to work together.
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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Tallman...If you like part of the Word and keep it, and then throw out the rest of God's Words away...It's not Him that you believe in. It's what's YOU yourself believe in.JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour.
 

preciousmessage

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Oct 28, 2007
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Hi Jag,Briefly, regarding tongues:When Wycliffe was translating the Bible into the English language, he wrote,"As the faith of the church is contained in the Scriptures, the more these are known in their true meaning the better, and inasmuch as secular men should assuredly understand the faith they profess, that faith should be taught them in whatever language may be best known to them. ... Christ and his apostles evangelized the greater portion of the world, by making known the Scriptures to the people in their own language. To the end, indeed, did the Holy Spirit endow them with the knowledge of tongues. Why, then, should not the living disciples of Christ do in this respect as they did?" End Quote Having studied the subject I'm in agreement with you and of course, firstly, the Holy Writ, "that every man heard them speak in his own language. Acts 2:6. I'm thankful that God wrote in a way that the common people could understand, He is fair, and wants all to come to the knowledge of Christ Jesus.Jag, would like to share a little pertaining to Eph. 2:8 in a bit. In His Grace,Jake
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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Jake, thanks for sharing the things you gave us. I enjoyed it very much. Very much appreciated that.Saying "speaking in tongue" as a requirement like Tallman is just wrong and unbiblical.Much love to you Jake.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
 

preciousmessage

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Oct 28, 2007
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Jake, thanks for sharing the things you gave us. I enjoyed it very much. Very much appreciated that.Saying "speaking in tongue" as a requirement like Tallman is just wrong and unbiblical.Much love to you Jake.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
Jag,Came across a quote from an author and preacher of righteousness from over 140 years ago, no kidding! It’s a very strong statement. I’m not saying it, so I hope I do not get into trouble for sharing it: “The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. 1 Cor. 14:32, 33. … A spirit of fanaticism has ruled a certain class. . . . They have sipped but lightly at the fountain of truth and are unacquainted with the spirit of the message … Nothing can be done for this class until their fanatical views are corrected. . . . Some of these persons have exercises which they call gifts and say that the Lord has placed them in the church. They have an unmeaning gibberish which they call the unknown tongue, which is unknown not only by man but by the Lord and all heaven. Such gifts are manufactured by men and women, aided by the great deceiver. Fanaticism, false excitement, false talking in tongues, and noisy exercises have been considered gifts which God has placed in the Church. Some have been deceived here. The fruits of all this have not been good.” "Ye shall know them by their fruits." Fanaticism and noise have been considered special evidences of faith. Some are not satisfied with a meeting unless they have a powerful and happy time. They work for this and get up an excitement of feeling. But the influence of such meetings is not beneficial. When the happy flight of feeling is gone, they sink lower than before the meeting because their happiness did not come from the right source. The most profitable meetings for spiritual advancement are those which are characterized with solemnity and deep searching of heart; each seeking to know himself, and earnestly, and in deep humility, seeking to learn of Christ. End Quote, written in 1864. In His Grace,Jake
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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Jag,Came across a quote from an author and preacher of righteousness from over 140 years ago, no kidding! It’s a very strong statement. I’m not saying it, so I hope I do not get into trouble for sharing it: “The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. 1 Cor. 14:32, 33. … A spirit of fanaticism has ruled a certain class. . . . They have sipped but lightly at the fountain of truth and are unacquainted with the spirit of the message … Nothing can be done for this class until their fanatical views are corrected. . . . Some of these persons have exercises which they call gifts and say that the Lord has placed them in the church. They have an unmeaning gibberish which they call the unknown tongue, which is unknown not only by man but by the Lord and all heaven. Such gifts are manufactured by men and women, aided by the great deceiver. Fanaticism, false excitement, false talking in tongues, and noisy exercises have been considered gifts which God has placed in the Church. Some have been deceived here. The fruits of all this have not been good.” "Ye shall know them by their fruits." Fanaticism and noise have been considered special evidences of faith. Some are not satisfied with a meeting unless they have a powerful and happy time. They work for this and get up an excitement of feeling. But the influence of such meetings is not beneficial. When the happy flight of feeling is gone, they sink lower than before the meeting because their happiness did not come from the right source. The most profitable meetings for spiritual advancement are those which are characterized with solemnity and deep searching of heart; each seeking to know himself, and earnestly, and in deep humility, seeking to learn of Christ. End Quote, written in 1864. In His Grace,Jake
Jake, That article is excellent. :amen: to the righteous person from 143 years ago. I've been to a Pentecostal church, (for 3 weeks) and this is how I feel when I went there, same as desribed in that article. It bothered my soul very much. And God told me to get out of there.Much love to you Jake.P.S. Jake, you won't get in trouble.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
 

Christina

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Amen Jake that is what Jag and I keep saying God would have no reason for gibberish it helps no one. It certanly is not what happened in Acts for 19 differnt languages were all understood at the same time even down to the very accents they had.
 

Jordan

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Jake, I know I said this to you before... Please feel free to attack the spirits of the antichrist with much love, and joy, peace and Truth.
smile.gif
Much love to you Jake.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
 

preciousmessage

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Oct 28, 2007
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Jake, That article is excellent. :amen: to the righteous person from 143 years ago. I've been to a Pentecostal church, (for 3 weeks) and this is how I feel when I went there, same as desribed in that article. It bothered my soul very much. And God told me to get out of there.Much love to you Jake.P.S. Jake, you won't get in trouble.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
I have connected with people from time to time through the years asking me if I have spoken in tongues yet, and I say with a smile, "My tongue has spoken often." God works in mysterious ways taking us right where we're at. Many, many years ago I accepted Jesus as my personal Saviour in a pentecostal church, after the meeting they wanted me to ask for the gift of tongues, and if I did not receive it, I should practice and the "gift" will soon come. Because of the circumstances led by God, He took me out of there almost immediately and have not stepped into a pentecostal church since, nor have I ever spoken that gibberish language.As in my case, I believe their are certainly sincere godly men and women in these churches and will allow God to speak to their hearts and be removed, because it is Christ "who desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth." 1 Timothy 2:4. blessings to you in Christ,John
 

Jordan

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Yea, no kidding Jake. Don't you hate it when people claim to have this "gift", they claim that they are speaking "truth". When a person try to say the real truth to a person, they may get angry and say that what that person says it's a lie...Another one of these "doctrine" is the "water baptism requirement" doctrine too much.The water baptism was John's baptism. I don't mind doing it as an obedience of an outwardly symbolic...I just don't think it's required due to the fact the malefactor (thief) on the cross didn't get baptized by water.He was saved by Christ though when he repented of his sins. I say this scripture again...Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.Much love to you, JakeLovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
 

preciousmessage

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Oct 28, 2007
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Jake, I know I said this to you before... Please feel free to attack the spirits of the antichrist with much love, and joy, peace and Truth.
smile.gif
Much love to you Jake.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
Jag,Not sure the total meaning of your statement. I believe it depends on the circumstance of the person or persons. There are times when I wish my approach would have been different. People need to know that you have interest in them, in sympathy and love, as Christ did, yet when He spoke to the Pharisees He could read their hearts of antagonism and came to the point with rebuke and power in his voice. There still must have been love in His voice, paradoxical perhaps. May we have such wisdom dear Lord! Now that can only come through deep Bible study, meditation and prayer. Thank you for the kindness,Jake
 

preciousmessage

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Oct 28, 2007
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(thesuperjag;20977)
Yea, no kidding Jake. Don't you hate it when people claim to have this "gift", they claim that they are speaking "truth". When a person try to say the real truth to a person, they may get angry and say that what that person says it's a lie...Another one of these "doctrine" is the "water baptism requirement" doctrine too much.The water baptism was John's baptism. I don't mind doing it as an obedience of an outwardly symbolic...I just don't think it's required due to the fact the malefactor (thief) on the cross didn't get baptized by water.He was saved by Christ though when he repented of his sins. I say this scripture again...Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.Much love to you, JakeLovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
I believe we are in agreement in general principle regarding "water baptism" ... "by grace through faith in Christ alone." Something to consider:Was Christ's act of baptism a "faith act" or a "works act." Faith itself is not a one time beginning event but an ever present and continuous reality. I'm not sure how to describe it, but I'll think about it some more. We can say that "everything" Christ did had significant meaning. Hence, when He allowed John to baptize Him it was not "meaningless" by no means, there certainly was tremendous meaning for us, not "necessarily" or "primarily as an act of obedience for us to follow, or just as an example. Let me reiterate. The act of baptism saves no man, it is the shed blood of Christ Jesus. If you allow me sometime to expound on the point of water baptism it would be appreciated. It may take 4 or 5 paragraphs initially and may be good for a few posts anyway. It's a paradigm shift indeed, yet nothing heretical I believe. But if you think it is, so be it. If not, we can thank God. Jake
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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(preciousmessage;20985)
I believe we are in agreement in general principle regarding "water baptism" ... "by grace through faith in Christ alone." Something to consider:Was Christ's act of baptism a "faith act" or a "works act." Faith itself is not a one time beginning event but an ever present and continuous reality. I'm not sure how to describe it, but I'll think about it some more. We can say that "everything" Christ did had significant meaning. Hence, when He allowed John to baptize Him it was not "meaningless" by no means, there certainly was tremendous meaning for us, not "necessarily" or "primarily as an act of obedience for us to follow, or just as an example. If you allow me sometime to expound on the point of water baptism it would be appreciated. It may take 4 or 5 paragraphs initially and may be good for a few posts anyway. It's a paradigm shift indeed, yet nothing heretical I believe. But if you think it is, so be it. If not, we can thank God. Jake
Jake please do write your five paragraph thing. I'll enjoy it.However I didn't say that I'm against water baptism, because I'm not.I'm just against water baptism FOR SALVATION. Because of that, it's like putting water first, then our Saviour Yahshua last. I really have no problem doing it in my lifetime (if someone would baptize me) because Yahshua did it. I'll do it as an act of obedience.Love much, JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua