You can never lose your salvation!

[VictoryinJesus]

However, you have not answered the direct scripture that I referenced. All you are ending up doing is attacking me.
And be quite sure that I find no pleasure in seeing anyone sinning which is exactly why I am pointing that scripture out. If by chance I am able to help another see the truth then by chance that person might do what Christ is asking.

Luke 15:10Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

KBCid, regarding keeping your body pure and undefiled. I ask you to consider the meaning of adultery. There is fornication in the physical. Between man and woman. And there is adultery against God. There is fornication with idols, and or, fornication with fallen flesh and the things of this world. He calls us to come out of all that. I tell you the Spirit's focus in my life is love of neighbor, and you tell me I am going to hell because I smoke cigarettes. Adultery against God is when we remove our sin out from under the feet of Jesus Christ and return to our own ways of works in an attempt to be pure. The only way to be pure and perfect is through walking in the Spirit of God. The inconceivable "foolishness" of the gospel of grace is ...my pureness and perfection is based off of Christ. Period.

Titus 1:15-16 KJV
[15] Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. [16] They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him , being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

They deny the "power" of Jesus Christ...and what is that Power? His Blood. They deny the Power of Jesus Christ and they remove their sin from under Christ's feet and place their sin under their own feet followed by works of the flesh to be Holy enough. THIS is adultery. To deny the Power of Christ is abominable. And disobedient.

Romans 7:3-6 KJV
[3] So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. [4] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. [5] For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. [6] But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the Letter.

You say your free.
But your bondage has weight.
Jesus said His yoke was light.
You profess that the yoke should have weight.
Jesus says the opposite.
The Lord said: whom the Son has set free is free indeed.

When Christ is "not enough" YOU deny the power of Christ. I believe "the power of Christ" is powerful enough to save all men, if He so chooses. I realize that may not be the case, but His blood IS Powerful enough to save even the most "seemingly worthless" sinner.
Luke 3:4-6
"As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;
And all flesh shall see the salvation of God."

My Sin is under the feet of Jesus Christ. I will not commit adultery by returning to works under the old covenant in an attempt to be righteous on my own merit. That is a dangerous place to be. KBCid, If you don't realize and see this; then you are still laboring for salvation. To labour "for salvation" in loosing and regaining it by the works of a person: IS fornication. Denying the power of His blood is committing adultery. Saying He is not enough is Unbelief. You claim His blood is not enough.

If you tell truth and your flesh is indeed "sinless" then your body should not decay and return to dust. Because the wages of sin is death. If you are "perfect by flesh" as He is perfect then your flesh will never see death. or illness. Or disease. If your flesh is not pure or perfect and you admit to sinning in any way...then YOU are in the exact same place as you put me. Condemned. Meaning you just lost your hard earned salvation. Is that truly what you believe?

I can tell you that every day that I fail in another attempt to quit smoking, that it is another day that the Spirit of God continues to have a presence and work in my life, and it is another day that I see my relationship with God is not based off "my goodness". Otherwise, I would have already been abandoned. He remains though.

You assumed I will give the wrong answer when I stand before Him. I won't have to answer. The Lord will recognize me. He will know my new name because ALL of my sin has been put under His feet. And there it will stay.

Revelation 3:1-5,8 KJV
[1] And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. [2] Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

There is ONLY one way to have perfect works: Jesus Christ.

[3] Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. [4] Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. [5] He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. [8] I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

 

[KBCid]

(Matt. 22:36-39)
Again, a rewording of 'grace' to make it sound repugnant. Did I say the believer under grace is to not love God? Of course not. But love under grace is a response not a command. We love Him because He first loved us. We walk in the Spirit. The more we walk with Him the greater we get to know Him and the greater our love for Him. Stranger

I said nothing about grace to reword it.
I said your message asserts that it is ok to go on sinning which is what is coming across from you.
Sinning is the breaking of God's laws.
Any form of sin that falls under the first command to love God is a sin which is directly against God and any form of sin that falls under the love your neighbor command is a direct sin against your neighbor.

Your message is that we should not even attempt to cease sinning whether it be against God or our neighbor because you believe that God doesn't want us to try. However if such is the case then you must throw out all the scripture which tells believers to stop sinning in order for your message to be true;

1 Cor 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

1Cor 15:34Think carefully about what is right, and stop sinning. For to your shame I say that some of you don’t know God at all.

6 Now these things became examples for us, so that we will not desire evil as they did. 7 Don't become idolaters as some of them were; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and got up to play.8 Let us not commit sexual immorality as some of them did, and in a single day 23,000 people fell dead. 9 Let us not tempt Christ as some of them did, and were destroyed by snakes. 10 Nor should we complain as some of them did, and were killed by the destroyer. 11 Now these things happened to them as examples, and they were written as a warning to us, on whom the ends of the ages have come.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, impurity, licentiousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, strife, jealousy, wrath, selfishness, divisions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revelings, and such like: of which I tell you beforehand, as I have also told you in time past, that they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Eph 4:20 But you have not so learned Christ; 21 If so be that you have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 That you put off concerning the former way of life the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that you put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. 25 Therefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbor: for we are members one of another. 26 Be angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: 27 Neither give place to the devil. 28 Let him that stole steal no more

By your own words you speak against what the apostles preached about ceasing to sin and putting off the old man that you were which did live in sin and the putting on of the new man that is righteous and Holy.
If all you perceive from my message about ceasing to sin is the following of the law then what is your words to the apostles who have also spoken to believers to cease sinning? Will you tell them also that to obey righteousness and Holiness and cease sinning is against God's will?

 

[KBCid]

KBCid, regarding keeping your body pure and undefiled. I ask you to consider the meaning of adultery. There is fornication in the physical. Between man and woman. And there is adultery against God. There is fornication with idols, and or, fornication with fallen flesh and the things of this world. He calls us to come out of all that. I tell you the Spirit's focus in my life is love of neighbor, and you tell me I am going to hell because I smoke cigarettes. Adultery against God is when we remove our sin out from under the feet of Jesus Christ and return to our own ways of works in an attempt to be pure.

Adultery is just as you say in both thought and deed. no argument there.
What works of the law could you possibly perform? are you Jewish? did you formerly make sacrifices of animals to atone for your sins prior to Christ? those were the works of the law that foreshadowed Christ's sacrifice. Those were the works of the OT law of Moses that had the possibility of being fulfilled.
adultery and stealing and having no other god's were not shadows and they fall completely under the 2 commandments of Loving God and your neighbor as much today as they did in the OT.
Tell me in plain English Which of the OT moral laws is it ok for any Christian who professes being a follower of Christ to not do?

If you tell truth and your flesh is indeed "sinless" then your body should not decay and return to dust. Because the wages of sin is death. If you are "perfect by flesh" as He is perfect then your flesh will never see death. or illness. Or disease. If your flesh is not pure or perfect and you admit to sinning in any way...then YOU are in the exact same place as you put me. Condemned. Meaning you just lost your hard earned salvation. Is that truly what you believe?

The flesh can never be sinless in its desires until it dies. However, as the controller of your flesh you can deny the desires of the flesh with the HS help. If you of your own free will choice do not deny the desires of the flesh then it is by your choice that you allow sin to continue to manifest itself through you. It is only by the power of Christ through the HS that a man can have the dominion over the desires of the flesh and keep from performing the actions of the old man who enjoyed living in a sinful manner.

I can tell you that every day that I fail in another attempt to quit smoking, that it is another day that the Spirit of God continues to have a presence and work in my life, and it is another day that I see my relationship with God is not based off "my goodness". Otherwise, I would have already been abandoned. He remains though.

Isn't your body intended by God to be a temple? and not your own?

1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body.19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

2 Cor 5:9 So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Gal 5:13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself. 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.
16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

According to the above scripture if you are indeed walking in the spirit then you are not sinning and not under the law since you are not allowing the desires of the sinful flesh to come to fruition. But if you are submitting to fleshly desires then you are not in fact walking in the spirit.

 

[Helen]

As long as we are not allowing the old man to feed upon the desire to sin, then the "balance", can actually allow us to be stronger. As long as it is not to the extreme, but everything in moderation.

Okay...now I can see where you are coming from , and agree. Yay! We agree!

Could you answer me this...just interested.
If you did not "uphold His instructions" to the letter, what in your mind would be the outcome?

I do totally agree in what you said ( I had said "I do because I am, I don't do to "become ".) ..what you said is much clearer..."I do because I love."
Perfect answer. Agree!

I have been told so many times , one way or another by the legalists...and on this site too. That if we don't keep the commandments we are lost.
As I, 100% believe in once saved always saved , "To me" as I read the Word...what is lost and at risk, is the 'gifts and rewards' , and nothing to do with salvation!
Not , many on here seem to see the great difference between our salvation in Christ...and I final placing in the kingdom. Fulfilling the place that Jesus said "I was going to prepare a place for you. ... we are to be "making our calling and election sure"...which to me is not talking about salvation at all, because save is saved. It is talking about overcoming, finishing the course, it is talking about running to receive The Prize ( Himself) in as much or as little closeness in the Kingdom .
I know I am a clumsy writer ...but maybe you can interpret the 'tongues' and understand what I am trying to say here.

 

[KBCid]

Here is a question of each of you who think being righteous in our current state is not God's will for us.

A Man comes to you and says;
I hear that you know of a God that I have not come to know yet and I would like you to tell me what I would need to do in order to follow Him.
Let me first tell you what I have been doing all my life and you can tell me what things I need to do different in order to follow your God;
1) I have been making sacrifices to every god that anyone has ever said existed
2) I have all the little carved images for each god that I take with me at all times
3) I do things at the times of the week or year defined by those gods
4) I hate my parents because they want me to be a certain way
5) I kill people pretty often
6) I get paid to have sex with married women
7) I rob people to make money
8) I tell the authorities that someone else is doing the robbing
9) I am saving everything I can to get a chariot just like my rich neighbor has

So there you have it a pagan is seeking to learn about your God what do you tell him to do?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Adultery is just as you say in both thought and deed. no argument there.
What works of the law could you possibly perform? are you Jewish? did you formerly make sacrifices of animals to atone for your sins prior to Christ? those were the works of the law that foreshadowed Christ's sacrifice. Those were the works of the OT law of Moses that had the possibility of being fulfilled.
adultery and stealing and having no other god's were not shadows and they fall completely under the 2 commandments of Loving God and your neighbor as much today as they did in the OT.
Tell me in plain English Which of the OT moral laws is it ok for any Christian who professes being a follower of Christ to not do?



The flesh can never be sinless in its desires until it dies. However, as the controller of your flesh you can deny the desires of the flesh with the HS help. If you of your own free will choice do not deny the desires of the flesh then it is by your choice that you allow sin to continue to manifest itself through you. It is only by the power of Christ through the HS that a man can have the dominion over the desires of the flesh and keep from performing the actions of the old man who enjoyed living in a sinful manner.




Isn't your body intended by God to be a temple? and not your own?

1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body.19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

2 Cor 5:9 So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Gal 5:13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself. 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.
16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

According to the above scripture if you are indeed walking in the spirit then you are not sinning and not under the law since you are not allowing the desires of the sinful flesh to come to fruition. But if you are submitting to fleshly desires then you are not in fact walking in the spirit.

So, are you saying you are perfect as He is perfect and that you never fulfill the lust of the flesh? Because if what you say is true and you do fulfill lust if the flesh then you have to sacrifice Christ anew (afresh) for that one time slip from "perfection". I am not disputing our love and desire to serve Him as we should but the flesh fails.

Peter broke the command of love thy neighbor. Did Peter lose salvation and have to regain it?

Galatians 2:11-16 KJV
[11] But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. [12] For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. [13] And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. [14] But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? [15] We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, [16] Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[Helen]

Here is a question of each of you who think being righteous in our current state is not God's will for us.

A Man comes to you and says;
I hear that you know of a God that I have not come to know yet and I would like you to tell me what I would need to do in order to follow Him.
Let me first tell you what I have been doing all my life and you can tell me what things I need to do different in order to follow your God;
1) I have been making sacrifices to every god that anyone has ever said existed
2) I have all the little carved images for each god that I take with me at all times
3) I do things at the times of the week or year defined by those gods
4) I hate my parents because they want me to be a certain way
5) I kill people pretty often
6) I get paid to have sex with married women
7) I rob people to make money
8) I tell the authorities that someone else is doing the robbing
9) I am saving everything I can to get a chariot just like my rich neighbor has

So there you have it a pagan is seeking to learn about your God what do you tell him to do?

I don't know who you are talking to in your post. But I will add my two cents for what it is worth.

I would tell him just how much God loved him and the high price of the cost of that love in Jesus Christ.
I am no longer one that demands them to kneel down and recite all the sin they can remember , in repentance! ( been there and done that)
I have found that when they really see how much God loves and what He did to bridge the gap, then repentance come forth as a heart felt response and brokenness on the part of the person. Knowing of the power of the cleansing blood...brings for a responce of thankfulness.
No request for it necessary.

I have found that "For God so loved the world.." works much more powerfully and quickly than in the days when we used to use- "The wages of sin is death.."

 

[tabletalk]

I said nothing about grace to reword it.
I said your message asserts that it is ok to go on sinning which is what is coming across from you.
Sinning is the breaking of God's laws.
Any form of sin that falls under the first command to love God is a sin which is directly against God and any form of sin that falls under the love your neighbor command is a direct sin against your neighbor.

Your message is that we should not even attempt to cease sinning whether it be against God or our neighbor because you believe that God doesn't want us to try. However if such is the case then you must throw out all the scripture which tells believers to stop sinning in order for your message to be true;

1 Cor 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

1Cor 15:34Think carefully about what is right, and stop sinning. For to your shame I say that some of you don’t know God at all.

6 Now these things became examples for us, so that we will not desire evil as they did. 7 Don't become idolaters as some of them were; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and got up to play.8 Let us not commit sexual immorality as some of them did, and in a single day 23,000 people fell dead. 9 Let us not tempt Christ as some of them did, and were destroyed by snakes. 10 Nor should we complain as some of them did, and were killed by the destroyer. 11 Now these things happened to them as examples, and they were written as a warning to us, on whom the ends of the ages have come.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, impurity, licentiousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, strife, jealousy, wrath, selfishness, divisions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revelings, and such like: of which I tell you beforehand, as I have also told you in time past, that they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Eph 4:20 But you have not so learned Christ; 21 If so be that you have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 That you put off concerning the former way of life the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that you put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. 25 Therefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbor: for we are members one of another. 26 Be angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: 27 Neither give place to the devil. 28 Let him that stole steal no more

By your own words you speak against what the apostles preached about ceasing to sin and putting off the old man that you were which did live in sin and the putting on of the new man that is righteous and Holy.
If all you perceive from my message about ceasing to sin is the following of the law then what is your words to the apostles who have also spoken to believers to cease sinning? Will you tell them also that to obey righteousness and Holiness and cease sinning is against God's will?

You stated to Stranger: "Your message is that we should not even attempt to cease sinning whether it be against God or our neighbor because you believe that God doesn't want us to try."

I've read a zillion comments on these forums, from many commenters, but not one has said what you are accusing Stranger of saying.

 

[Stranger]

I said nothing about grace to reword it.
I said your message asserts that it is ok to go on sinning which is what is coming across from you.
Sinning is the breaking of God's laws.
Any form of sin that falls under the first command to love God is a sin which is directly against God and any form of sin that falls under the love your neighbor command is a direct sin against your neighbor.

Your message is that we should not even attempt to cease sinning whether it be against God or our neighbor because you believe that God doesn't want us to try. However if such is the case then you must throw out all the scripture which tells believers to stop sinning in order for your message to be true;

1 Cor 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

1Cor 15:34Think carefully about what is right, and stop sinning. For to your shame I say that some of you don’t know God at all.

6 Now these things became examples for us, so that we will not desire evil as they did. 7 Don't become idolaters as some of them were; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and got up to play.8 Let us not commit sexual immorality as some of them did, and in a single day 23,000 people fell dead. 9 Let us not tempt Christ as some of them did, and were destroyed by snakes. 10 Nor should we complain as some of them did, and were killed by the destroyer. 11 Now these things happened to them as examples, and they were written as a warning to us, on whom the ends of the ages have come.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, impurity, licentiousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, strife, jealousy, wrath, selfishness, divisions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revelings, and such like: of which I tell you beforehand, as I have also told you in time past, that they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Eph 4:20 But you have not so learned Christ; 21 If so be that you have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 That you put off concerning the former way of life the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that you put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. 25 Therefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbor: for we are members one of another. 26 Be angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: 27 Neither give place to the devil. 28 Let him that stole steal no more

By your own words you speak against what the apostles preached about ceasing to sin and putting off the old man that you were which did live in sin and the putting on of the new man that is righteous and Holy.
If all you perceive from my message about ceasing to sin is the following of the law then what is your words to the apostles who have also spoken to believers to cease sinning? Will you tell them also that to obey righteousness and Holiness and cease sinning is against God's will?

Your message is not grace. Your message is law. You have proved it by your comments. Thus when grace is spoken of, you reword it as you did, making it appear repugnant.

Yes we all know what sin is. Sin is breaking the law...under the Old Covenant. What about now? What is sin? (Rom. 14:23) "And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." You see, we have a new definition of sin for those who walk in the Spirit. Whatever is not of faith is sin. Where is your law to help you now?

As I said before, we who are born-again, who walk by the Spirit, do not love God due to a command. We love God because He loved us. Can't you see the difference?

Again, you cannot see. I am all for the Christian having less sin their lives. But we do not obtain that by following the law. We obtain it by walking in the Spirit.

This topic is about losing ones salvation. Not about walking under law or in the Spirit. But it naturally will go that way because those who believe you can lose your salvation, must believe in a salvation of works or law. And those who don't believe you can lose your salvation must believe in a salvation by grace through faith alone emphasizing the walk of the Spirit.

So, pay attention to the topic. Are you saying you can lose your salvation due to sinning?

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

You stated to Stranger: "Your message is that we should not even attempt to cease sinning whether it be against God or our neighbor because you believe that God doesn't want us to try."

I've read a zillion comments on these forums, from many commenters, but not one has said what you are accusing Stranger of saying.

works do seem to be discounted though, regardless of how it is stated. I notice that no mention of confession/forgiveness ever accompanies these, and they are also not welcome, it seems?

 

[bbyrd009]

Whatever is not of faith is sin. Where is your law to help you now?

yet you sin and cannot confess, let alone accept forgiveness. Where is your grace now?

As I said before, we who are born-again, who walk by the Spirit, do not love God due to a command. We love God because He loved us. Can't you see the difference?

Again, you cannot see. I am all for the Christian having less sin their lives. But we do not obtain that by following the law. We obtain it by walking in the Spirit.

whole lotta "we" going on there, lol.
I can't help but note the same wishful thinking that got many to crying "Lord, Lord."

wadr your model seems to follow
"recruit the new seeker who fears hell.
perform time-honored rituals to get them 'saved.'
issue them a weapon. (which could be characterized 'Rule of Law')
rinse and repeat."

politics and religion, two sides of a coin.

 

[Helen]

works do seem to be discounted though, regardless of how it is stated. I notice that no mention of confession/forgiveness ever accompanies these, and they are also not welcome, it seems?

Hello there
Not sure how evangelical you were, or are?...
We did many years of evangelizing the old way...doing it how we were told to do it. "Repent, or into the fire for you.." Like John the baptist pre cross.
I tell you, it was not very fruitful.
Then, when we saw the truth of Grace...so we started by asking people if they knew just how much God loved them etc etc..that is what brought repentance.
Repentance does come by being told that you must repent.
Repentance comes by seeing the goodness and kindness of God in His love for us all.
That is what breaks people and they can't wait to open up their hearts to a loving Father...and that is much more fruitful .

 

[bbyrd009]

Not sure how evangelical you were, or are?

ha well i am a full time evangelist now; but i don't proselytize

remember the "I found it!" campaign? i kind of cringe thinking about it now...but i don't know how fruitful it might have actually been, either, even if it didn't seem to be too fruitful at the time; or quite fruitful, depending upon whom you asked, i guess, lol. I have since learned the superior method you outlined

 

[KBCid]

So, are you saying you are perfect as He is perfect and that you never fulfill the lust of the flesh? Because if what you say is true and you do fulfill lust if the flesh then you have to sacrifice Christ anew (afresh) for that one time slip from "perfection". I am not disputing our love and desire to serve Him as we should but the flesh fails.

You have not yet grasped what I am saying. My state is this, if I know it is a sin, I with the power of the Holy Spirit / helper deny the bodies desire but, I cannot of my own see all that is sin. As I go through life the helper reveals things that are sin which I have not known and as I learn of them I turn from it but, in all the actions it is not simply my will but my will with the assistance of the helper that allows me to overcome fleshly weakness inherent from birth.
The body of flesh your spirit inhabits is to be in subjection to your will. Your body of flesh has no mind of its own since all its desires are all hard coded into the DNA of the machine which is why it cannot be subject to the will of God. Your spirit came from God after the body was formed and it is purposed to control the flesh for God's intent. If you depend on God then you will be assisted in doing what God wants but God will not do it for you or change your being into an automaton. God wants people of their own free will to desire them and their ways not because of a demand but rather because you desire in your spirit to become one with the spirit you came from.

 

[KBCid]

You stated to Stranger: "Your message is that we should not even attempt to cease sinning whether it be against God or our neighbor because you believe that God doesn't want us to try."
I've read a zillion comments on these forums, from many commenters, but not one has said what you are accusing Stranger of saying.

You should keep up with the replies what you read is in answer to this post;

QUOTE="Stranger, post: 346379, member: 7282"I prefer the believer keep on walking in the Spirit method. Sin and all. Stranger /QUOTE

According to his reply I said that his message is to;
"not even attempt to cease sinning whether it be against God or our neighbor because you believe that God doesn't want us to try."

 

[KBCid]

So, pay attention to the topic. Are you saying you can lose your salvation due to sinning? Stranger

Yes.
If you are sinning then you are not walking in the spirit, you are walking in the flesh and its desires. This is why the apostles gave all those warnings to the believers in their day. If it was not possible for people who have accepted Christ to turn back to following the fleshly desires then there would have been no need to warn them would there?
Here is some very direct warnings from the inspired writer to those who claim to be Christians. Maybe you can explain to John how he is trying to put believers under the law by not telling them that they are saved by grace SIN AND ALL;


1 John 2 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin.
But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. """""""""This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.""""""""""

28 And now, dear children, continue in him, so that when he appears we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming. 29 If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him.

4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

Did you get that last one Stranger? Let me reiterate what John by inspiration of the holy spirit is saying to believing Christians in his time;

No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

Titus 2:1 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

So what does the Grace of God Teach Stranger?
""""denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world"""""

 

[KBCid]

I don't know who you are talking to in your post. But I will add my two cents for what it is worth.
I would tell him just how much God loved him and the high price of the cost of that love in Jesus Christ.
I am no longer one that demands them to kneel down and recite all the sin they can remember , in repentance! ( been there and done that)
I have found that when they really see how much God loves and what He did to bridge the gap, then repentance come forth as a heart felt response and brokenness on the part of the person. Knowing of the power of the cleansing blood...brings for a responce of thankfulness.
No request for it necessary.
I have found that "For God so loved the world.." works much more powerfully and quickly than in the days when we used to use- "The wages of sin is death.."

So you wouldn't tell him he is doing anything wrong correct?
And if you don't tell him he is doing anything wrong then he can go forth from you believing that he doesn't have to change anything that he is doing? keep in mind he is doing every single act that God hates and yet you would not feel at all inclined to tell him about those things.
That same person could go out and kill your children the very next day.... how would you feel about what you told him then?

 

[Helen]

So you wouldn't tell him he is doing anything wrong correct?
And if you don't tell him he is doing anything wrong then he can go forth from you believing that he doesn't have to change anything that he is doing? keep in mind he is doing every single act that God hates and yet you would not feel at all inclined to tell him about those things.
That same person could go out and kill your children the very next day.... how would you feel about what you told him then?

I do not have to tell them that they have done anything wrong...they know that because GOD tells them....that would be why we were having the conversation...God speaks, just like He did to me, no one told me I was wrong or separated from Him...that is the job of the Holy Spirit...and He does it well.
That is why we have 'searchers' ...God IS already dealing in the heart.

We 'are ambassadors for Christ' ( 2 Cor 5) our message is "be ye reconciled to God"...then we tell them the Good News that Jesus Christ is the bridge to Father.

God is the surgeon of hearts.

 

[KBCid]

I do not have to tell them that they have done anything wrong...they know that because GOD tells them....just like he told me, no one told me I was wrong or separated from Him...that is the job of the Holy Spirit.

But here is the difference. This pagan came to you and asked the question before he has agreed to follow anything. Thus he could not know anything from God because he has not yet accepted Christ.

 

[Helen]

God was speaking to my heart long before I accepted Christ...I was a searcher first.
I was full of questions after I was converted...
Can I still wear make-up?
Can I wear bright colours or not?
How much should I read my bible. how much prayer?
Can I go to a movie?
I was full of them.