You Probably Believe This Lie

[DJT_47]

Did the famous Evangelist, Oliver Greene receive the Holy Spirit when he got baptized—- he admitted AFTER he got Saved that the only reason that “he” got baptized was because he thought that it would allow him to “ Get Lucky” with some religious girl he lusted after......getting dunked in water means Nothing , in and of itself .....
If you will take the time to read PAST Acts 2:38 , you will see that the Holy Spirit That Saves a Soul can be o gained by simply Believing.....Paul proved it and even Peter admitted that it was true.....by the END of the Transitional Book Of Acts, it is obvious that people were getting the Holy Spirit, (evidenced by speaking in tongues) without having first been baptized....

You will find no scriptures that support that or say that. You cannot ignor Acts 2:38 or explain it away. It says what it says and is quite clear. You can believe the so-called famous evangelist if you like, but I'll believe the words of the inspired writers of the scriptures.

Acts 2:38

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[360watt]

Another usual thing that happens with these threads...

Putting baptism of a group-- a group receiving the Holy Spirit.. as the same thing as receiving eternal salvation individually.

Have a look at what's going on when a group receives the Spirit and an individual does. It is not the same thing.

So in Acts-- you get already saved people.. people who have already believed.. gathered in a group.. they get baptised by immersion in water.. and the Holy Spirit comes 'in their midst' to empower them and make them one of His churches.

Believed before baptised.. Holy Spirit empowering them after belief and baptism. This is what happened with the group who were lead by Apollos, that Paul found.

That had already believed individually.. but had not received the Holy Spirit. They got baptised rightly.. and the the Holy Spirit come on them as a group.

The other thing that was happening then.. is people were getting converted and then baptised by immersion very soon after. Hence why you have baptism in the same verse as believing.

 

[Jim B]

You will find no scriptures that support that or say that. You cannot ignor Acts 2:38 or explain it away. It says what it says and is quite clear. You can believe the so-called famous evangelist if you like, but I'll believe the words of the inspired writers of the scriptures.

Acts 2:38

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:38 is quoted over and over and over! There are many more verses in the Bible that say that baptism is a ritual that is a statement that the old self is buried and the new self is risen. (and this single verse was written by one person only, not by "inspired writers")

 

[Wrangler]

What you fail to realize is that is people like “ YOU” that will be hearing this !

Unresponsive to anything I wrote.

Make a blessed day!

 

[Brakelite]

“ And if we are Unfaithful, He REMAINS FAITHFUL”.....2Timothy 2:13

I didn't ask what would be the outcome if we were unfaithful. I asked, what if we stop trusting? There's a difference.

 

[Brakelite]

I found this gem ....thought it might help you to understand....it explains this better than I can...


It’s important to understand that salvation is not a fruit bearing event. It’s what you do after you’re saved that determines whether you’re fruitful.

Jesus explained that believers can only bear fruit if they remain in Him, that apart from Him we can do nothing (John 15:5). That means the things we do have to be at His request and in His strength to have value to Him. Things we do on our own have no value. They’re like a withered branch that is burned in the fire. So this passage is not about whether we can lose our salvation. It’s about whether the things we do as believers have value to Him or not. Otherwise, Jesus would have been contradicting His earlier statements.

Paul explained this in 1 Cor. 3:10-15 saying some of our work is like gold, silver, and precious gems. This is the work we do in the Lord’s strength and has much value. Other work is like wood, hay, and straw. This is the work we do in our own strength and has no value. In 1 Cor. 3:15 Paul said even if all our work is burned up, we’ll still be saved.

So, as you can see there’s no connection between OSAS and fruitfulness. That’s because it’s our belief that saves us, not our behavior. Unfruitful believers may not receive crowns or other heavenly rewards, but they cannot lose their salvation.

You confuse what is fruit. The fruit of the Spirit have nothing to do with works, they are a different kettle of fish altogether, and yes, not salvational. But the fruit of the Spirit, are a result of relationship with Christ and are salvational because they are related to character and sanctification. We are branches. It isn't what we do that is burnt if we don't beat fruit... It is us.

 

[atpollard]

Calvinism is OSAS, the perseverance of the saints, God grants continuing faith and belief in Christ, or say if people fall away, that is temporary, God will bring them back to the sheepfold before they pass on to the judgement seat of Christ.
Calvinism does not say people are saved before believing, it says they will be saved, if they are God's foreknown to Him people as God has decreed that before time began. It is a perversion to say Calvinist's believe they are born saved.

Arminianism is definitely not OSAS

There are some “Arminians” that believe Salvation cannot be lost. The Church of God and Calvery Chapel, for example, teach both Arminian free will salvation and eternal security. (That’s a LOT of Christian members between those two groups).

 

[Ezra]

The idea that salvation can be lost is due to men thinking as men think

would it be a fair statement to say you can be in sin no matter and still be saved? lets say a homosexual was saved then went right back into his same sexual encounters // i am just using this as a example. this is why the opposition to eternal security. our salvation is secure but with out repentance is that salvation..?

 

[360watt]

would it be a fair statement to say you can be in sin no matter and still be saved? lets say a homosexual was saved then went right back into his same sexual encounters // i am just using this as a example. this is why the opposition to eternal security. our salvation is secure but with out repentance is that salvation..?

After conversion.. all christians still have sin.. and will still struggle with sin from time to time. The human nature.. sin nature hasn't gone.

But what believers do have.. is the Holy Spirit indwelling their spirit. So.. when they sin.. the Holy Spirit will prompt them back to Him.

So it becomes unlikely for a believer to continue in sin, but it is not impossible.. and doesn't undo Christ's payment for sin for them.

There isn't a guarantee a believer will be faithful.

How does a believer flee from alcholism or pornography and such?

If they are condemned by Jesus when they fall into it.. they won't stop it. The only way they are gonna flee is if Jesus doesn't leave them and prompts them out of it through His indwelling in their spirit.

If they keep going on with it.. Jesus will withdraw blessings, discipline and rebuke. They may get kicked out of their church, lose friends. God may even take their lives and 'bring them home' to stop them continuing in sin.

But why would He undo His payment for that believer's sin?

It's like saying-- 'well.. I've forgiven you of your sins, I am with you.. but if you fall away.. I'll not forgive you of your sins.' That's conditional salvation.. works based contract.. not biblical.

 

[Gospel Believer]

You confuse what is fruit. The fruit of the Spirit have nothing to do with works, they are a different kettle of fish altogether, and yes, not salvational. But the fruit of the Spirit, are a result of relationship with Christ and are salvational because they are related to character and sanctification. We are branches. It isn't what we do that is burnt if we don't beat fruit... It is us.

I don’t Confuse Fruit—- I know “ Exactly “ what it is.....it is something that occurs naturally as a result of the Indwelling Holy Spirit.....you get that Spirit by Believing in Jesus.....it is the ‘ Believing” That Saves and not the results that should spring Forth from it....Sometimes these Fruits may take years to manifest themselves and very often the fruits are there but they are not so obviously seen by others...Such Fruit would be where a hard- hearted man becomes more like a puppy- dog as time goes by, or a man filled with anger and resentment or jealousy finds peace in his heart..... a stingy person might become generous ....it dies not Akways take the firm of aman putting a cigarette or a beer bottle down....
“ Good Works or Good Fruits are gifts from God and can’t be forced or imitated....People that force themselves to come up with “ good Fruit” to impress others ( especially to impress their “ religious” buddies) or try to do good things in order to “GET” Saved or do good things in order to “ STAY” Saved are the ones performing “ Dead Works” .....these Works are Useless as far as obtaining Heavenly Rewards and they are the things being thrown into the fire , figuratively speaking.....

The only “People” getting thrown into any fires are the Unbelievers .........Some Believers may have all of their “ so- called” good deeds thrown into the fire , because they were really just Dead Works, But they themselves , as Paul said will be Saved—- “ Saved” like a man barely escaping a house fire....if you think it’s the actual individual that gets burned, take it up with Paul....

 

[Gospel Believer]

I didn't ask what would be the outcome if we were unfaithful. I asked, what if we stop trusting? There's a difference.

Please explain what you think The difference is so I can better answer your question....let’s make sure that we are on the same page ....thanks

 

[Brakelite]

And if you are a good disciple or if you are not a good disciple you are still and always a disciple, because being BORN AGAIN, is not caused by your good behavior, nor is it ended by your bad behavior.

Salvation is a GIFT from God. = never earned and never lost.

How ridiculous is this nutty idea = this completely biblically ignorant theology that is..."you can lose your salvation"?

Let me show you.

For you to lose your salvation, you would have to be "un-born again".

Jesus would have to leave you, and the LORD JESUS THE CHRIST, told you that "i will never LEAVE YOU".
So did He lie?
Not quite.

God would have to stop finishing your salvation. Philippians 1:6

Jesus would have to stop being the finisher of your Faith. Hebrews 12:2

Add what is more......

The born again are IN the Spirit of God, being born again into it, and God and Christ and the Holy Spirit are IN the Born again, Spiritually.
So, if you went to hell, So would THEY.

Now, just how STUPID and Theologically BACKWARDS..... is such a theology that teaches all you just read?
Yet Pulpits will teach you that JUNK and so will DECEIVERS on a FORUM teach you the same DEVIL LED Theolgical Junk.

Learn to hear them, and protect yourself from them., as these DARK LIGHTS will break your faith if you dont pay attention to what they are teaching you.

Putting a lot of words in our mouths is an easy way to refute an argument. There's a name for that.

 

[bluedragon]

When we sin, we bring trouble into our lives, whether we are saved or not.

Amen to that brother ....

Is Sparks warm today?

 

[Jim B]

would it be a fair statement to say you can be in sin no matter and still be saved? lets say a homosexual was saved then went right back into his same sexual encounters // i am just using this as a example. this is why the opposition to eternal security. our salvation is secure but with out repentance is that salvation..?

Your example is absurd!

 

[Scott Downey]

There are some “Arminians” that believe Salvation cannot be lost. The Church of God and Calvery Chapel, for example, teach both Arminian free will salvation and eternal security. (That’s a LOT of Christian members between those two groups).

Yes, there is a spectrum out there on this subject.

And I don't know any Calvinists that believe they are born saved. That is a distortion of the scriptures, and some are extrapolating wildly claiming Calvin taught that. No one knows they are saved until they are, and then it can be proven by scripture that God foreknew them and predestined them, Romans 8 is not the only verse that speak to this. To some people, you can not fight God against His own words, but you do try don't you!

 

[Ezra]

Your example is absurd!

excuse me ? your reply is ABSURD i was willing to enter a adult discussion on the subject.. but as usual there is that one that is the very reason the subject can not be discussed .

 

[Scott Downey]

would it be a fair statement to say you can be in sin no matter and still be saved? lets say a homosexual was saved then went right back into his same sexual encounters // i am just using this as a example. this is why the opposition to eternal security. our salvation is secure but with out repentance is that salvation..?

You are assuming the man became born of God and really did get saved. Paul tells us this though, such a person is EVIL, and they are to be cast out of the church as they are frauds. Those who are outside God judges. If we judge those inside a church to be fake or a problem, we push them outside to be judged by God. You know a church is likely to have a bunch of people who are not born again, sometimes they attend just by family associations.

9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to [f]keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.

11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

The situation was this
For a church to deliver such a one to SATAN, meant for them to be shunned and told you are not welcome, do not come to church anymore, we do not want you here as you are unrepentant of your immorality. God will judge the person, and it they are really His child, He will bring them to repentance, TOUGH LOVE! Otherewise they really are a never saved person.

It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even [a]named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! 2 And you are [b]puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord [c]Jesus.

 

[Ezra]

You are assuming the man became born of God and really did get saved. Paul tells us this though, such a person is EVIL, and they are to be cast out of the church as they are frauds. Those who are outside God judges. If we judge those inside a church to be fake or a problem, we push them outside to be judged by God. You know a church is likely to have a bunch of people who are not born again, sometimes they attend just by family associations.

9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to [f]keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.

11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

no not assuming anything am i %100 osas no. but am i secure in my salvation? yes i know in whom i have beloved i also know HE is able to keep. and our salvation is kept by the power of GOD. that is all bible i lean towards P.O.S perseverance of the saints those truly saved will stick with it.. the prodigal son is a great example....he came to his senses.
i can not judge anyone who is saved . i can only use scripture. Christ will judge the secrets of mans heart

 

[Scott Downey]

no not assuming anything am i %100 osas no. but am i secure in my salvation? yes i know in whom i have beloved i also know HE is able to keep. and our salvation is kept by the power of GOD. that is all bible i lean towards P.O.S perseverance of the saints those truly saved will stick with it.. the prodigal son is a great example....he came to his senses.
i can not judge anyone who is saved . i can only use scripture. Christ will judge the secrets of mans heart

You are commanded though to follow the apostles teaching. Any church that tolerates unrepentant sexual immorality, and other evil things, by it's members, is not the Lord's church, no place I would want to be associated with. For the last days church, one characteristic is they apostatize, will not follow the Lord with their whole heart, speak as the world speaks, believe demonic doctrines, and make disciple after their own selves. I know I am missing a bunch of bad stuff they do in the last days, but that came to mind.

 

[Ezra]

Any church that tolerates unrepentant sexual immorality, and other evil things,

there is a church i do feel bad for just down from me. in fact years ago i was part of that church i did youth preaching there. they had a good thing going.. they had elected a young man who had never been pastor. he was a good preacher but then they had a teacher. who spoke up he still watched porn. the pastor asked him step down from there boom. many left and it still struggles after 5 years no pastor the man is still there.