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When Christ said "Do not judge" He meant exactly that. It is not our place to judge anyone to Hell. That is God's place to do that. And in scripture where it says "Not everyone who says 'Lord Lord' will enter the Kingdom of God" Christ was referring to His own followers. Christ told us to love our neighbors. He did not say to love only Christians. We are no better than the atheists or pagans. We're also sinners. As a sinner, I would never say that I deserve to be in Heaven just because I'm a Christian. If I die and go to Heaven, it would not be because I'm a Christian. It would be because of God's mercy on me. And the Holy Bible did say that God can have mercy on whomever He wants. We should remember that Christ even forgave the pagan soldiers who nailed Him to the cross.Justin Mangonel said:Dear All,
I do not reject the notion that people have intellect outside the Christian community but I only reject the notion that atheists or agnostics are somehow intellectually honest. That is not how Christ will see the situation as He says depart from me I never knew you. Agnostics are a kind of amiable atheists that want to pretend that they are intellectually honest about their position that God cannot be known. This is preposterous and patently disingenuous. Even the heavens declare God's glory. They have the Bible...they should read it and believe it. God can be found if they seek Him with their whole heart.
It does no good to pretend like God is going to see that a person who did not accept the sacrifice of His son had a point. He is not going to understand that a agnostic really just could not accept that He and His son were right because of lack of proof. The hard facts of the matter are that all agnostics that feel they are just being honest people will burn forever in the lake of fire along with all the rest of the people who rejected the work that Christ did for them on the cross. It will not matter the reasons that you got there but only that you are there and there is no way out...forever.
So a person who is of the agnostic persuasion does not like to have the reality of Hell brought to within 6 inches of their face. What of it? Why should I participate in their deception when I and millions of other people know the truth? Am I doing them any favors by telling them they have the least little bit of a point? No, because they don't. They have rejected God by saying they cannot know God. They have ignored all that God's only begotten son went through on the cross and therefore despise Him. They are not reasonable but out right sinners because they have chosen to ignore the only way that God has provided for them to escape hell and damnation.
Agnostics want Christians to be all loving and reasonable towards them because the are just a type of conscientious objectors to the gospel. There is no such thing and I will not kill someone with kindness when in fact they need to be shaken right down to their core and told how ridiculous and dangerious their position is before God. It is a fallacy to say that if I showed an agnostic proof that they would accept Jesus and His Father tomorrow. Nothing could be father from the truth.
None of those are contradictions. They can only make sense when one looks at the Bible in its entirety rather than one piece at a time. For example, your first one regarding love and fear......For Catholics, the fear of the Lord is one of the 7 gifts of the Holy Spirit. It means "a desire not to offend God." The fear of the Lord is like the respect we have for our parents. We do not wish to offend them, but we also do not live in fear of them, in the sense of being frightened. It is not a fear of punishment, but a desire not to offend God that parallels our desire not to offend our parents. This is how Catholics interpret that. I don't know how my other Christian brothers would interpret it. Catholics and Christians do not have the same interpretation of scripture, which is the reason why they have 30,000 different Christian sects. Unlike my Christian brothers, we do not follow sola scriptura (scripture alone).InquisitiveAgnostic said:Hey BigAndyy
Just one example of each is
Inconsistency: You must Love God - Matthew 22:37, Mark 12:30, Luke 10:27
You must Fear God - Luke 12:5, Psalms 33:8, Deuteronomy 6:13
There is no fear in Love - John 4:18
Contradiction: the issue of Righteousness
Genesis 7:1 - Noah is Righteous
Job 2:3 - Job is Righteous
James 5:16 - Righteous men have effective prayers
John 3:7 - Christians become righteous through their deeds in the name of the Lord
Romans 3:10 - No one is Righteous
Falsehood: A cure for Leprosy
Leviticus 14:49-53
Brother Justin,Justin Mangonel said:Dear S,
So are you saying that if someone professes to be a atheist or agnostic and does not accept Christ's sacrifice as a propitiation for their sins that we are not right to say that this person faces eternal torment? Personally, according to how I read the scriptures, I judge all those who do not accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and savior as in danger of the hell fire. Yes, some who count themselves Christians we be surprised to learn that they are not recognized by Jesus because they did not do the will of His Father but is that really what we are talking about here?
Do you think that being reasonable and non-confrontational with an atheist or agnostic is the way to go about loving them into the kingdom? Perhaps, although I have never seen that work personally. Should we respect their intellectual honesty and agree with them that the Bible contains contradictions and thus they have some grounds to reject the holy writ? Absolutely not.
Do you say that because Christ said "forgive them for they know not what they do" that therefore God has now forgiven the whole world and everyone will go to heaven? I don't think so.
Perhaps you could say that the person who confesses to an atheist or an agnostic is theoretically a nice guy or gal but what I don't like is the spirit or sprits that speak through their mouths and blaspheme God. I furthermore do not think that compromise helps them either. The fact of the matter, from my perspective anyway, is that you are dealing with demonic spirits that have bound them and there is no amount of logic or reason that will convince the demon that dwells within them to convert to the light. While there are different approaches you can take to engage their will to resist these spirits I believe one effective way is to bring them face to face with the eternal consequences of their present thinking. Perhaps others may feel to love them and be patient with them but each of us has to be led by the Spirit in who to witness to these types of unbelievers.
I don't like lying spirits that pretend to be so reasonable and open minded when in fact they are crushing the soul of the person they are binding. I bristle at the suggestion that God cannot be known. I am furious with the assertion that God does not exist. People do not have the right to ignore or pretend God does not exist. This is not some philosophy we are spouting but an actual reality. I don't feel to soft pedal my Christianity to such people but rather I feel strongly to offend them all the way to heaven if needs be. What is needed is deliverance and only then can you hope to reason logic with them.
Have we become such lukewarm Christians that we are afraid to become confrontational with our faith for fear of being labeled extreme. Though I am not for being extreme for extremes sake I am also not for holding my tongue when someone tells me that God does not exist or that they can ignore Him because they are so intellectually honest. Some people, granted, are honestly confused or hurt and need to be handled gently and with great love and patience. Others need to have their feet held to the fire so that they can be woken up to the reality of their future. For the second class of person I would advance the notion that I would rather them be offended now than be dammed later. By not taking a firm stand with such people you could be accused of killing them with kindness.
Love doesn't always work? Strange comment - all we are called to do is love. The Holy Spirit converts the heart that Jesus saves - not us.Justin Mangonel said:Dear S,
I do respect your position and what you are saying. I do not believe that we should be confrontational in every situation. However, sometimes I think it is good to confront those who deny the existence of God or seek to ignore Him with the reality of the eternal consequences of their choices. The fact of the matter is that loving and accepting those who are bound by deception does not always work. It is not like you personally have a hundred percent success rate with those you witness to in this way. It is just one tool and one way to go about it. I must admit that I do not often dangle people over the pit of hell however sometimes I feel led by the Holy Spirit to do so. I remember one person into scientology was giving me a intellectual attitude about L. Ron . Hubbard and I felt to tell him very directly that he was going to make Hell his eternal home if He did not change his ways. It was uncomfortable for him and I could see the fear on His face. However, he gave his heart to the Lord, burnt all the material from scientology and started going to church. About a month later he became spirit filled and spoke in other tongues. Several months later He died of a massive heart attack. In this particular case I don't think soft peddling Christianity would have worked because He did not have much time left. So, while I agree that love is good witnessing tool it is not the only way to go about things.
Atheists are hard to crack and so are agnostics. I think that only God can lead us in the correct way to approach these types of individuals. Sometimes we may be led to love them patiently and try to reason with them. However, I believe that what we are really dealing with are people that are bound by demons of hurt and rejection that masquerade and reason and logic. Demons understand that they are reserved for the lake of fire and thus have nothing to lose by dragging these people down with them. What is necessary is to speak directly to their souls and spirits the white hot truth of God so that their minds might be freed just long enough for them to have a chance to see things God's way. These are not pagans that have never met God but rather these are men and women who have rejected God and back up their choices up with philosophies born of hell.
I was witnessing to one young person at a university and his major was comparative religions. I told him about Jesus Christ and the salvation that He provide and he looked at me with the most pained look I have ever seen on a man and said, "I wish I could believe."
In conclusion, I must disagree with your assessment that we cannot judge the lost as being lost. It is quite plain in scripture that if you show up at the wedding feast without the proper attire you will be dealt with appropriately.