Your Sins Don't Count Against You Anymore

[marks]

Indeed not, no external thing!

Not just "no external thing", not any created thing. Are you a created thing?

;)

But which way is it that we choose to walk when things get rough or we simply get lazy or greedy?

1 Peter 1:6-9
6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

The trial of your faith - in this instance the proving of your faith - might be found to praise and honor and glory at the apearing of Jesus.

Mark 4:5-7 "And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth: But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away. And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit."

Vs.16-17 "And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended."

The Word is sown, and some receive it with gladness, but without it taking root in them. Affliction comes and they go.

But those who receive it in a good and honest heart are fruitful.

Much love!
Mark

 

[amadeus]

Not just "no external thing", not any created thing. Are you a created thing?

;)



1 Peter 1:6-9
6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

The trial of your faith - in this instance the proving of your faith - might be found to praise and honor and glory at the apearing of Jesus.

Mark 4:5-7 "And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth: But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away. And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit."

Vs.16-17 "And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended."

The Word is sown, and some receive it with gladness, but without it taking root in them. Affliction comes and they go.

But those who receive it in a good and honest heart are fruitful.

Much love!
Mark

I could continue this going over every line of scripture you cite or cite other scriptures myself but...
To me... you haven't proven I am wrong nor that you are right. Neither have I proven these things to you. This is not likely to be changed by this conversation.

God alone is always right. Are we always on His side?

We are arguing about our ability to change sides. We do disagree and if either of us needs to be changed and we are sincere in seeking God's Kingdom and righteousness, will He not correct us as needed? Remembering that only God gives any real increase I am for the moment stopping this conversation. I cannot win and neither can you.

Give God the glory!

 

[marks]

I could continue this going over every line of scripture you cite or cite other scriptures myself but...
To me... you haven't proven I am wrong nor that you are right. Neither have I proven these things to you. This is not likely to be changed by this conversation.

God alone is always right. Are we always on His side?

We are arguing about our ability to change sides. We do disagree and if either of us needs to be changed and we are sincere in seeking God's Kingdom and righteousness, will He not correct us as needed? Remembering that only God gives any real increase I am for the moment stopping this conversation. I cannot win and neither can you.

Give God the glory!

I almost posted similar to this my last post, and I'm glad I didn't, for you I think spoke more eloquently.

In all things, if either of us does not understand, the Holy Spirit will give understanding.

Much love, Amadeus!

 

[Helen]

Better than what God gave through Moses, perhaps, but how is it better than what Adam and Eve had before they disobeyed?

Hey there John.

As far as I know, no on in the OT had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
That would include A & E.
The anointing came UPON them...He did not dwell within.

Plus..in Eden God was just setting His Plan in motion.

You know what and how I believe...I do not believe any man's sins are against them. Jesus took it all. ( though Mr Ordinary does not 'know that', see that, or enjoy that)

Jesus said , "and I , if I be lifted up , I will draw all unto Myself. "
The word "men" is not in there, it was added.
But reading in context all that proceeds His statement, He is speaking about Judgement.

He took the judgement . "God saw the travail of His soul and was satisfied"

Just saying...

 

[Dave L]

Hey there John.

As far as I know, no on in the OT had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
That would include A & E.
The anointing came UPON them...He did not dwell within.

Plus..in Eden God was just setting His Plan in motion.

You know what and how I believe...I do not believe any man's sins are against them. Jesus took it all. ( though Mr Ordinary does not 'know that', see that, or enjoy that)

Jesus said , "and I , if I be lifted up , I will draw all unto Myself. "
The word "men" is not in there, it was added.
But reading in context all that proceeds His statement, He is speaking about Judgement.

He took the judgement . "God saw the travail of His soul and was satisfied"

Just saying...

Ping Helen.... faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit all listed in Hebrews 11 had.

 

[Helen]

Ping Helen.... faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit all listed in Hebrews 11 had.

Haha! Not sure if that was a positive 'Ping' or a negative ping.

But either way I liked it!!

 

[Helen]

Hey @amadeus

I posted mine to you, before I saw that you had opted out of the discussion.

I won't mind if you sidestep my post, sidestep or step over it. Or even step on it!

 

[marks]

You know what and how I believe...I do not believe any man's sins are against them. Jesus took it all. ( though Mr Ordinary does not 'know that', see that, or enjoy that)

Mark 3:28 "Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:" . . . excepting of course the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, calling the Holy Spirit an unclean spirit.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

Hey there John.

As far as I know, no on in the OT had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
That would include A & E.
The anointing came UPON them...He did not dwell within.

Plus..in Eden God was just setting His Plan in motion.

You know what and how I believe...I do not believe any man's sins are against them. Jesus took it all. ( though Mr Ordinary does not 'know that', see that, or enjoy that)

Jesus said , "and I , if I be lifted up , I will draw all unto Myself. "
The word "men" is not in there, it was added.
But reading in context all that proceeds His statement, He is speaking about Judgement.

He took the judgement . "God saw the travail of His soul and was satisfied"

Just saying...

What I see my friend is God's plan to restore what Adam and Eve had and then to go one step further, if we would cooperate, to qualify us to partake of the Tree of Life. Adam and Eve were already qualified to eat of the Tree of Life but went to the other forbidden tree instead. They did not have to overcome anything until they defiled themselves. Once they did defile themselves they were shut out. This is why Jesus was necessary.

Before we can eat of the Tree of Life our defilement must be completely cleansed. We must be qualified and we like Adam and Eve [after their disobedience] cannot qualify ourselves without help. The problem is that we still have the ability to defile ourselves repeatedly as I see it. Anyone who is not already an overcomer as was Jesus cannot eat of the Tree of Life.

See the Gate leading to the Tree of Life: Only Overcomers need apply.

Overcome what? Not sin, for Jesus did that... but we must overcome the things within us that still when followed will lead us again to sin...

"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:16

The "world" to be overcome is not planet Earth, but you and me. Jesus overcame his own temptations within his own little world of flesh and opened the Way for us to overcome ours.

 

[Taken]

What do we have in us today that Adam and Eve did not?

Natural Birth, more Knowledge, more historical experiences, Offered eternal Forgiveness, Offered Salvation and Spiritual Life, before physical death.

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul" Gen 2:7

The Breath [Spirit] that made man a Living Soul came from God!

Yes.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

~ amadeus

But then they died when they partook of that which was forbidden by God and Jesus came for what purpose?

"Their" "LIFE" died. A mans LIFE is his Blood. His Body is kept alive by his blood. Blood stops flowing, Body Dies.
It was their BODY sentenced to Death, and their Sentence came true, when their bodies died.

"Our souls, are really Gods. All souls are His and the LIFE in a soul, IS Gods LIFE, VIA, Gods Breath."
No SOULS Physically die.
Souls "separated" from God are called "dead". It's a spiritual death.
Souls "WITH" God (whether in our body, or out of our body), are called Saved.
"The souls in our bodies", are called by the same name, as our body, and our spirit.
When a man IS SAVED...
He gives "HIS" LIFE,..(His Body) spiritually to death with Christ.
He gives the Lord, Authority TO SAVE his SOUL.
He gives the Lord, Authority TO QUICKEN his "spirit"...
(Which a mans "spirit" is his TRUTH in his heart. When a mans spirit is given over to the Lord;
The Lord spiritually circumcises the mans heart,
The Lord imparts HIS SEED into the mans heart.
The SEED of God Births (quickens) the man A new Heart, a new spirit, AND there dwells ALSO the SPIRIT OF TRUTH of God, which is Gods Word planted in the Fleshy Tablet of your new heart.)
When a man physically dies, WHO is Converted (saved and born again);
His body dies, and is buried.
His Living soul, goes to heaven.
His spirit, goes to Gods hands.
There his soul & spirit WAIT, for the day, Jesus descends to the clouds, and raises up the mans (glorified) Body, and reunites the mans soul and spirit into the mans glorified body.

NOW WHY? Why must the Natural body DIE?
Because WITHOUT a DEATH of a SEED, (the Old natural seed) Nothing could be BORN AGAIN....of Gods Everylasting SEED.

Taken

 

[Taken]

~ amadeus

Did Jesus give us more than Adam and Eve had prior to their disobedience?

Adam and Eve, and centuries of men had A WAY, God provided as a WAY TO Him Forever. As men Corrupted Gods WAY...
God provided A WAY, for the next Generations of men. JESUS, is the "LAST" Way. Gentiles primarily (for the past 2,000+ years) have been jumping on board....AND a WAY shall come into fruition for the Israelites (their 12 Tribes), to Come into Faith IN Christ (during the first portion of the Last great 7 year Tribulation.)

"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10

The Thief in the night, is a reference to an unknown time....
Thiefs do not announce themselves...
Neither does man Know what day Jesus will come for them...
A Theif comes to steal what is NOT his.
Jesus will come to Take what IS HIS...
And what IS HIS; is a man who have been made WHOLLY WHOLE, body, soul, spirit....ie Christ's Chruch...ie in short called the Rapture.

Taken

 

[Taken]

~ amadeus

Why could Adam and Eve sin,

Adam and Eve, Disobeyed. It was Called SIN, "after the fact" of their disobedience.
They were created as Adults...no birth, no parents, siblings, other people, history, or experience....

Sin is not even mentioned until the time of Cain killing Abel.

The next time Sin is mentioned, it is in reference to the Abram and Lot being in Sodom, and the men of Sodom being wicked and SINNERS..

And thereafter the introduction the Mosaic Laws...600+.laws.

If the LAW said....such and such...
And a man Didn't do that....It was called a Sin.

IF the LAW said...Don't do such and such...
And a man Did do that...It was called a Sin.

For every SIN law that was Violated by a man, there was a Consequence.

Moses gave the his People, the
Positive Law....(ie what they had to do)
Negative Law..(ie what they were forbidden to do)

Aaron (the high Priest) had the Curse LAWS...
Which is Like OUR PENAL LAWS.
Which is the Consequences (ie Curse/Penalty)
For violating a law.

Once JESUS Arrived; He fulfilled the LAW.
A LAW fulfilled, NO LONGER has a Curse/Penalty.
A LAW WITHOUT a Penalty....
IS a LAW "WITHOUT" Force and Effect.
A Law "without" force and effect....is MOOT...
Basically NO LONGER Applicable.

A Law without Force and Effect....NO LONGER requires FORGIVENESS.
The OT men Once a Year, Saughtered Animals and OFFERED the Animals BLOOD for Forgiveness of their SINS...
THAT offering was REQUIRED to be DONE in the TEMPLE...IN Jerusalem.

The day Jesus' BLOOD Spilled to the ground and He breathed His Last breath on the Cross, the TEMPLE FELL, and Animal Blood
Has Not since been sacrificed as an Atonement FOR SIN.

Jesus' BLOOD is the Sacrifice, ONCE and for ALL who, Accept His Offering.

but we cannot?

The ONLY SIN a man CAN COMMIT, is Disbelief IN God, IN Christ.

A man WHO has Become Born Again, Was Forgiven His SIN, For His Disbelief...

And such a man (CAN NEVER AGAIN (SIN) ie; be in Disbelief of God, of Christ). BECAUSE the Power (Spirit) of God WITHIN the Man, KEEPS the man FOREVER in FaithFULLNESS to God.

What we can do once having received the Life which Jesus brought is die again to God...

If you are Converted, YOU already gave YOUR (Blood) Life to God, spiritually crucified with Christ.

Taken

 

[Taken]

~ amadeus

Who but those who have overcome as Jesus overcame are protected against the second death?

Correct, only those who come to Jesus.
(Gentiles mostly now. Jews during the first portion of the Great tribulation, as God will sent them 144,002 Israelite ministers to teach them of Christ)

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Rev 2:7

The Church began with Jesus, and Jews that followed Jesus....However the Jews reverted back to their Synagogs, shortly after the Apostles died. They do not attend "Chruches". And they do not Hear what is taught to Gentiles. And they who continue in Faith in God, do so according to what their "fathers" did. And God has a PLAN for them to come to Christ.

"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." I Cor 15:45

Yes "man" (body) was CREATED from DUST.
Yes "VIA" Gods breath man was MADE
Living.

Yes, Jesus brought the possibility of Life again, but where does it say that those with this new Life cannot die even as Adam died?

They do. All body's shall die. And ALL living souls, "not converted IN Christ" are separated from God.

Taken

 

[Taken]

~ amadeus

Where does it say that we lost our ability to choose God or mammon after we have received the gift of the Holy Spirit and Life?

It is a lesson; God is TRUTH. Inasmuch as YOU expect the Lord to BE TRUTH, when the Lord Speaks to YOU, He expects the same FROM YOU.
When YOU Choose to give your Life to Death FOR the Lord....YOU are agreeing He shall RESTORE and QUICKEN your LIFE with His Spirit and KEEP your Life with Him, until the DAY you can See Him, AS HE IS.

It is your Freewill to CHOOSE...
And IF your Choice is THE TRUTH...
You LOSE your ABILITY to BE A LIAR and back out AFTER Truly Giving your Life to the Lord.
Remember;
You confess your true belief, from the thoughts in your heart.
And right after you confess, your heart is circumcised....you have a new heart.
HOW can your old Heart...decide to NOT BELIEVE? Your old Heart IS GONE, Kaput. It is NOT possible for something that no longer exists to then make a decision.

Ultimately it does not really matter what sin it is so long as it is not blasphemy against the Holy Ghost:

But it does matter. And God WANTS Faithful men to understand.

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Rom 6:23

Yes, and ALL bodies SHALL DIE.

Taken

 

[brakelite]

But brakelite . . . why should we aim for Law Keeping and not aim for the Law Giver?

The bush did not burn because of God's presence, and God's presence consumes all that is unholy in us, but does not consume us.

But my disagreement over whether we are intended to keep a covenant God made with someone else, does that mean that I do not believe God is able to make me holy and righteous, without blemish and without spot?

Is that what you think is true?

Do you find liberty in Law, or in a New Life?

Much love!
Mark

I agree with you, and have repeated many times that our focus should always be Christ. The freedom in Him is always several steps up from mundane law keeping.
The fruit of the spirit includes what the KJV says yes temperance, but means self control. One who sets out to obey God constantly without the fruit of the spirit is always controlled by God. But God wants us to be kings and priests... People who are free in their self control, not God controlled all the time. This does not remove His authority or His sovereignty, on the contrary, love, of which all the other fruit encapsulate, is the fulfilling of the law. The law is for sinners... Those who have no fruit of the spirit. How many of us have self control?

 

[Taken]

~ amadeus

So are you saying that there is nothing in the written OT that applies to us?

No.
God gave men....
Laws, Statutes, Precepts.
Laws were fulfilled.
Statutes apply but are possible to adhere to, BECAUSE of the Internal Power of God.
Precepts are the behaviors between men and men.
No one HAS to follow Gods Precepts....But they are specifically designed for the BEST results in behaviors between men...even enemies.
The Consequences for not following...are YOURS to deal with...
Between family, spouses, friends, enemies, neighbors, co-workers, governments....
Gods precepts in the OT and NT teaches Gods Way of how to avoid conflicts and deal with them....a mans choice to do it or not, and suffer the consequences.

Then why were we born dead?

Born of a mans Seed...
FOR Gods Pleasure.
Choose to become born of Gods SEED...
And that is FOR Gods Inheritance.
(Every saved and born again man, BECOMES Gods Inheritance)

In spite of different covenants God made with men, has God ever changed?

No.

Has God ever been unfair?

No.

What is this law of which you speak that I have wrongly applied to myself?

Already explained.

God gave us back what Adam and Eve lost which was Life and the possibility of never dying.

Adam and Eve were saved.
God named "them" Adam.
And Adam is called the son of God...
And Only those who are saved become called the son of God.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[marks]

I agree with you, and have repeated many times that our focus should always be Christ. The freedom in Him is always several steps up from mundane law keeping.
The fruit of the spirit includes what the KJV says yes temperance, but means self control. One who sets out to obey God constantly without the fruit of the spirit is always controlled by God. But God wants us to be kings and priests... People who are free in their self control, not God controlled all the time. This does not remove His authority or His sovereignty, on the contrary, love, of which all the other fruit encapsulate, is the fulfilling of the law. The law is for sinners... Those who have no fruit of the spirit. How many of us have self control?

Hi brakelite,

I'd agree with every word you wrote here with the exception:

"Those who have no fruit of the spirit.", I'd clarify this to say, those who are not born again - the unrighteous.

1 Timothy 1:9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane,"

I don't know that I see "God controlled" and "self-controlled" differently, could you explain more the difference to me?

My understanding is that God works in us to want to do and be able to do what He wants for us, but not that He just takes us over, but I don't think that's really what you mean, is it?

Much love!
Mark

 

[brakelite]

"Those who have no fruit of the spirit.", I'd clarify this to say, those who are not born again - the unrighteous.

Ummm, yreaaahhh... But I don't think the fruit are there from the very moment one is born again... The fruit grow and develop through our relationship with the Vine right? So there are times when we need to be reminded, by the school master, the minimum standard you think?

My understanding is that God works in us to want to do and be able to do what He wants for us, but not that He just takes us over, but I don't think that's really what you mean, is it?

Yes. Agreed. Our Dad chastens us and leads and directs, but not control. All a matter of character development... Sanctification... And that takes a life time.

 

[marks]

Ummm, yreaaahhh... But I don't think the fruit are there from the very moment one is born again... The fruit grow and develop through our relationship with the Vine right? So there are times when we need to be reminded, by the school master, the minimum standard you think?

Hi brakelite,

That's just it, the Bible says that no, we don't return to the school master.

Galatians 3:21-27
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

So then because these are now the children of God by faith in Jesus, completely apart from works, they are no longer under the schoolmaster, representative of the Law, governing works, while also providing for an atonement - the temporary covering of sin.

The minimum standard, to my way of thinking, is, as I consider God in my life, His desire, His power, what is the way of love?

The fruit of the Spirit, and how quickly it comes?

I'd say it's different for different people. I know a man who was a hard-core heroin addict who was born again, was immediately sober and not addicted to heroin. I know others, and myself, who had to wait much longer for deliverance from those things that afflict us, and still afflict us.

But I also know when I was reborn, I sensed changes in myself fairly quickly in some areas. Although to be sure I was a poor judge of what was happening at the time due to my immaturity.

But I don't see God returning to the Mosaic Covenant, and a list of Laws, when what He's offering, and instructing me in a new life. The one I'd call a description, the other walking into the scene.

Yes. Agreed. Our Dad chastens us and leads and directs, but not control. All a matter of character development... Sanctification... And that takes a life time.

Yes, it takes far to long in my oh so humble opinion, which means nothing in this regard, as God sanctifies us.

Reminds me of Phillipians, He Who began a good work in you will complete it until the day of Christ Jesus, Until the day . . . not finished until then, but just the same, He never never stops working with us to make our lives more abundant in His love!

Much love!
Mark