Who was that again?
Memory, you know, someone said something about that as you get older, something about the memory . . .
?
Much love!
Your Thoughts: 1 Thessalonians 1:5-10
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Memory, you know, someone said something about that as you get older, something about the memory . . .
?
Much love!
Yes, context. That's the tricky part, especially in a passage like this. For my part, the presence of the word in accompaniment with reference to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, plus reference to these things providing assurance, plus the apostle Paul knowing they had been "chosen by God," plus mention of them turning from dead idols to the True and Living God, all suggest that works of power were likely made manifest among them. That and that the apostles had just done works of power in Philippi before coming there.
But that's my take on it, which is easier to come by being a Pentecostal. I'm looking to see if the case for a more non-Pentecostal interpretation of the passage has as much strength to it.
"Ability," as in "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the ability of God unto salvation to every one who believes"?
I don't think I can go there myself. Lends itself to sounding like the gospel is something God is "able to do" or "able to present/preach," which sort of goes without saying in one sense, and sounds a little strange in another. Whatever the interpretation, I think one should stick with "power" as the transition.
You mean who were the apostles in this case? Paul, Silas and Timothy (2 Thessalonians 1:1; 1 Thessalonians 3:1-2).
No, I was wondering who these were:
Nothing comes to mind . . . But that's hardly surprising!
:Much love!
:)
All good!
I just said that to express the point. We think of the "power of God" as equal to "supernatural miracles", but that's just part of the meaning, as it goes the drab to the dramatic in range.
Much love!
Hello @Hidden In Him,
We can only know with certainty what is actually recorded concerning the power manifested. One thing that we do know, because it is a matter of record, is that during the Acts period, following the Lord's ascension, the disciples ' ... ... went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following.' (Mar 16:20), this is stated again in (Heb 2:3-4)
'How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation;
which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord,
and was confirmed unto us by them that heard Him.
God also bearing them witness,
both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles,
and gifts of the Holy Ghost,
according to His own will?
which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord,
and was confirmed unto us by them that heard Him.
God also bearing them witness,
both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles,
and gifts of the Holy Ghost,
according to His own will?
* These confirmatory signs were manifested in the ministry of Paul too:-
'And these signs shall follow them that believe;
.. In My name shall they cast out devils;
.... they shall speak with new tongues;
...... They shall take up serpents;
........ and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them;
.......... they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.'
(Mar 16:17)
.. In My name shall they cast out devils;
.... they shall speak with new tongues;
...... They shall take up serpents;
........ and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them;
.......... they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.'
(Mar 16:17)
* These signs were Divinely administered, and confirmed the message being preached by the Apostles, and also the apostolic authority of the Apostles themselves - God Himself bore witness!
'For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God,
it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:'
(1 Corinthians 1:21-22)
Praise God!it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:'
(1 Corinthians 1:21-22)
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Oh. Well I was referring to the Thessalonians, i.e. people in Thessalonica that he first preached the gospel to, whether among those who believed or those who just witnessed the works of power taking place. But again, pure inference. Just that the context suggests something must have happened to convince them the God of Paul, Silas and Timothy was a real God with real power, and not just another theoretical god made our of stone or metal that never did anything other than look good.
Agreed! :)
Absolutely. And this leads me naturally to my 3rd question, which I would ask you now since we are of the same mind on the rest:
If these things are true, how should we be seeking to provide similar assurances (to others) today? I know you responded with, "By preaching the gospel fearlessly, regardless of opposition, in the same manner as Paul; and by shewing the same example in manner of life and witness as described in the passage above. (e.g., Philippians 1:12-14)." If the same manner of life and witness as described in the Thessalonians passage involves signs and wonders following, what does that mean for you and I?
Take your time to pray before answering this one. To me it's an extremely important question, and one I wish more people sincerely asked. I know my own answer to it personally. My problem is in how to go about doing it. I don't subscribe to a Christianity without the supernatural power of God in manifestation to confirm it, but at the same time I find much of modern Pentecostalism to be rife with false gifts, and false "signs and wonders." But I don't believe I ever asked you this question directly: Where in your opinion do we go from here? How do we get back to manifesting the same assurances that the gospel is true as Paul did?
Your question only is really seeking one answer, you know.
;)
If true . . . similar assurances? Then those similar assurances would be similar to what is postulated as true, that this is supernatural works visible as from the Holy Spirit.
Much love!
And everything else will follow, works of supernatural wonder, or words of wisdom, or a kind word in a tough spot, whatever God wants to do.
Faith expressed through love.
Genuine transcendant love, the Holy Spirit out pouring from you to them. I don't need to know how to do anything, I only need know to trust in Jesus, and be relaxed with God, not hit Him with all my rules. Just know the Word, so I don't get too confused, but be OK with anything He wants to do.
Much love!
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This is another question I have only one answer to.
I think @Jay Ross puts it well, if I can appropriate his words here, that we draw deeper and deeper into God's loving embrace.
His love becomes our love.
Our love leads us to serve.
We serve in the ability God gives.
If God is giving us the ability to speak, we speak, to heal, we heal, in whatever way we are to serve,
1 Peter 4:10-11
10) As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
11) If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
The idea here is to think of myself as God speaking through my voice, and God serving through my hands, in the ability God gives, not my ability, so that God is glorified, He gets all credit. Again when we speak of God's ability, this is limitless power.
Much love!
Please allow me to comment.
When I wish to encourage others in Christ, I usually say, "May the Lord continue to draw you, into His Loving embrace, and His purposes for your life."
Marks above hinted about the purposes for our lives in his comments/expansion on my usual Blessing for others.
When we are in fellowship with the Lord God, we are walking within the earth that He is showing us, as we travel with the Love of the Lord within us.
If we are in whole hearted fellowship with the Lord, we have the "authority", i.e. power, to share about God's Salvation Covenant with all of mankind which has been in existence since the time of Adam's fall. Many people seek to speak on the subject of God's Salvation Covenant, but because of their heart desires, their guarded fellowship with the Lord, they lacks His power and/or authority and as such signs and wonders do not follow their words.
Mark 9:1 is where the first occurrence of the Greek word δυνάμει occurs in the New Testament, where it reads,
Mark 9:1: - 9:1 And He said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power/authority."
If we are in Christ we have God's authority in His Kingdom to do the things that He leads us to do so that His Glory can be seen through the things that we do in His Name.
It is my humble opinion that this is what Paul was also hinting at.
Shalom
Well yes. :) That's just where I'm taking it with her, assuming her answers were true. If they're not, then the question would be worded differently.
Again, it's a discussion, not a debate. ;)
Well this is an interesting response because I think it encapsulates the position many may take, actually. Only I don't know that it gets us where I personally would want it to go or where I believe the Lord would necessarily want it to go. This would be a discussion in and of itself, but I take the view that He would want the modern church to be emulating the early church when it came to manifestations of supernatural gifts. I think the problem is us. And I think in order for us to do so, it will take more than being ok with it whether He does or doesn't. There is evidence from early church documents that suggests it was the corporate prayers of the saints, what James referred to as the "fervent prayer" of righteous men, that brought about manifestations of God's power in the beginning, and I think it would take that again.
That's a big discussion to get into, but I suppose I'm up for it if you are. :)
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Hi Jay! Thank you for responding.
I like this verse, but now let me give you what I believe the Lord was communicating. It reads literally, "Assuredly I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God having come in power." Now, what was the last phrase referring to. I believe He was talking about Pentecost, when the Spirit of God was poured out in power, and they thereby saw the kingdom of God "come in power" upon those who were gathered together on that day. It is an easier interpretation to adopt then that He was referring to His second coming, since everyone who was alive back then died when He still hadn't returned yet.
But that's my take on that verse. I do agree that we as believers walk in Christ's authority, but even here I think we don't walk in near as much of it as we could or should.
I am not wanting to take this thread in a different direction, however, it seems to me that your understanding on the type of death that is being referred to in Mark 9:1 is a physical death, where our breath is taken out of us, whereas my understanding is that the second death is being referenced, and all sinners become candidates for the second death, unless they repent, at the end of the Millennium Age, when Christs returns in power and authority with all of the heavenly hosts.
But the discussion as to what is meant by the reference to "death" in Mark 9:1, and other similar verses, is a topic for another thread and will only cloud the discussion in this thread.
Shalom
Billy Evmur
Active Member
Hi :) no it's my answer to question # 1
The Holy Spirit should come with power and demonstration, that is with miracles although if we preach salvation and someone gets demonstratively saved we will be satisfied with that.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Your Thoughts: 1 Thessalonians 1:5-10
OP^
No Man was given A "Quicken" (Born Again spirit), until After Jesus returned to Heaven.
Jesus Disciples however Became "Soul Saved"...
The moment they Confessed Belief that Jesus is the Christ.
(and once gathered together , after Jesus' ascension, those gathered Disciples received the Quickening (Rebirth of their spirit).
Thereafter...a man heartfully confessing belief that Jesus IS The Christ, is immediately Soul "Saved unto God" AND "spirit quickened with Gods SEED".... no waiting period.
OP^
No Man was given A "Quicken" (Born Again spirit), until After Jesus returned to Heaven.
Jesus Disciples however Became "Soul Saved"...
The moment they Confessed Belief that Jesus is the Christ.
(and once gathered together , after Jesus' ascension, those gathered Disciples received the Quickening (Rebirth of their spirit).
Thereafter...a man heartfully confessing belief that Jesus IS The Christ, is immediately Soul "Saved unto God" AND "spirit quickened with Gods SEED".... no waiting period.
'For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ:
for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth;
to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.'
(Rom 1:16)
Hello @Hidden In Him, ( Re. Reply #27 )
I believe that the confirmatory signs, which were Divinely worked, accompanied the ministry of the Apostles throughout the Acts period. For it was the Jews that required a sign (1 Corinthians 1:21-22), and it was the repentance of Israel that was being sought during that time. Though Paul was an Apostle to the Gentiles, and his sphere of operation was among the nations of the dispersion, it was to the synagogue of the Jew that he always went first and foremost during that period, where he reasoned from the Old Testament Scriptures concerning the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 17:2-3), with the intent that Israel should come to repentance, and take up their divinely intended role of priests of God among the nations. This did not occur at that time, as God in His foreknowledge knew, and after Israel's (temporary) departure into unbelief (Acts 28:25+), Paul was given further instruction by revelation as promised (Acts 26:16), concerning the church administration and fellowship for this present day (Ephesians 3), which is not accompanied by confirmatory signs.
I know that my understanding of this will be a disappointment to you, Hidden In Him, but this is what I believe to be true.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Signs of an Apostle .... 2nd Corinthians 12:12 -= "in power and in the HS"
Assurance follows this proof, regarding those who have witnessed the Apostle's power.
For Jews "require a sign"....
An example can be found in Hebrews 6.. You find Paul dealing with Christ hating Hebrews, and does again in Acts 28.
In Hebrews 6, you read this verse....."and have tasted the heavenly gift".
What is that?
Thats the sign of an Apostle, given to "jews require a sign"........and He did this in front of them..... Performed this Apostolic power......to prove to them that Jesus was their Messiah, and they tasted this heavenly GIFT or "sign of an Apostle", = they witnessed the Apostle's gifts, and still rejected their Messiah.
The original Apostles manifested "gifts of the Spirit" "signs of an Apostle" on a much higher level then we can even comprehend, today.
An example, is that in Acts 13 Paul causes a male witch to become blind.
Imagine that....as that does not fit in comfortably with "love thy neighbor", and "be accepting of Homosexuality", does it?
An apostle causing you to become BLIND?
Yeah.
It happened.
Wecome to PAUL's Christianity.
He's the one that gave you "the Gospel of the GRACE of GOD".
Same fella.
See thats the thing about REAL Christianity, there is a lot more to it then just the usual babyfood stuff you hear on a Sunday morning, or normally read in a Thread.
Assurance follows this proof, regarding those who have witnessed the Apostle's power.
For Jews "require a sign"....
An example can be found in Hebrews 6.. You find Paul dealing with Christ hating Hebrews, and does again in Acts 28.
In Hebrews 6, you read this verse....."and have tasted the heavenly gift".
What is that?
Thats the sign of an Apostle, given to "jews require a sign"........and He did this in front of them..... Performed this Apostolic power......to prove to them that Jesus was their Messiah, and they tasted this heavenly GIFT or "sign of an Apostle", = they witnessed the Apostle's gifts, and still rejected their Messiah.
The original Apostles manifested "gifts of the Spirit" "signs of an Apostle" on a much higher level then we can even comprehend, today.
An example, is that in Acts 13 Paul causes a male witch to become blind.
Imagine that....as that does not fit in comfortably with "love thy neighbor", and "be accepting of Homosexuality", does it?
An apostle causing you to become BLIND?
Yeah.
It happened.
Wecome to PAUL's Christianity.
He's the one that gave you "the Gospel of the GRACE of GOD".
Same fella.
See thats the thing about REAL Christianity, there is a lot more to it then just the usual babyfood stuff you hear on a Sunday morning, or normally read in a Thread.
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