Your Thoughts: Are The NT/OT Gods "Different"?

[Hidden In Him]

Question: What is your response whenever someone says that the Old Testament and New Testament Gods were clearly two different Deities, based for example on how strictly they enforced laws on sins like adultery.

In the Old Testament, the command was placed into Jewish law that anyone caught in adultery should be stoned to death. Yet in the New Testament, a woman actually was caught in adultery, and Jesus did not encourage the Jews to enforce that law as given by God (passage provided below).

Was Jesus, the God of the New Testament, different in His handling of this situation than the God of the Old Testament? Or were the two entirely consistent in how they dealt with it?

God bless, and thanks to any and all who respond.
@marks, @WaterSong, @Mayflower, @2nd Timothy Group, @charity, @Behold.

1 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. 3 Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, 4 they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?” 6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.

7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” 8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”

11 She said, “No one, Lord.”

And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.” (John 8:1-11)

 

[Mayflower]

I think I will follow for now. Im never sure how to answer with questions like this, except the Old Covenant and New Covenant are completely different. There is no animal sacrifice or anything. Im not even sure if "Christians" after Christ went up, still stoned people and things, or if that all changed. Jesus came and everything changed. I know that much.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Same God.

The punishments in the OT affected the flesh temporally, administered by man according to the law.

The punishments in the NT will affect the soul eternally, administered by God and Christ according to his word.

 

[Mayflower]

 

[Enoch111]

Jesus came and everything changed.

The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. The Bible also says that no man has seen God at any time. It is the Only Begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father who has revealed Him.

So when God walked in the Garden of Eden, it was the pre-incarnate Christ. When God met Moses at the burning bush it was the Angel of the LORD (the pre-incarnate Christ). And so it was throughout the OT.

 

[Mayflower]

The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. The Bible also says that no man has seen God at any time. It is the Only Begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father who has revealed Him.

So when God walked in the Garden of Eden, it was the pre-incarnate Christ. When God met Moses at the burning bush it was the Angel of the LORD (the pre-incarnate Christ). And so it was throughout the OT.

Ha! Im contradicting myself again. Nice catch. Covenant, not God

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Isaiah 1:11-14 NLT - "What makes you think I want all your sacrifices?" says the LORD. "I am sick of your burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fattened cattle. I get no pleasure from the blood of bulls and lambs and goats. When you come to worship me, who asked you to parade through my courts with all your ceremony? Stop bringing me your meaningless gifts; the incense of your offerings disgusts me! As for your celebrations of the new moon and the Sabbath and your special days for fasting--they are all sinful and false. I want no more of your pious meetings. I hate your new moon celebrations and your annual festivals. They are a burden to me. I cannot stand them!"


Hebrews 10:5-10 NKJV – “Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: "Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, But a body You have prepared for Me. In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You had no pleasure. Then I said, 'Behold, I have come--In the volume of the book it is written of Me--To do Your will, O God.' "Previously saying, "Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them" (which are offered according to the law), then He said, "Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God." He takes away the first that He may establish the second. By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”


Another great Biblical problem to solve. You know your stuff.


I can’t think of anything greater to know about this other than how the Lord [never] wanted sacrifice for Israel, rather, He would prefer that Israel offer their own form of Grace, Compassion, and Mercy for those who have sinned against them. Of course, this applies to we Gentiles as well. God would have rather that humans surrender their Hearts to the Lord so that they would obey, thus not needing animal sacrifice for the expiation of sin. It is better to live in Righteousness than to live in sin which results in a slaughtered but perfect animal.


Exodus 33:19 is a Keystone Passage, as it states that the Lord grants His Grace, Mercy, and Compassion upon anyone who He so chooses. The Apostle Paul is a prime example. We, too, are supposed to offer our own form of Grace, Compassion, and Mercy to all who cause us harm. Why? Because as a True Child of God, you will have realized the Grace of Christ having been given you, thus it will be a Spiritually Natural response to return Grace and Understanding to your offender. There is actually much written about the Lord not desiring sacrifice in the Old Testament, and it is reiterated in the New Testament. It is amazing how much there is! That said, it is still easy to see how the Israelite would not have understood. They were clearly commanded to kill even a woman like Tamar, the Daughter-in-Law to Judah, for, at a glance, it appeared that she played the role of Harlot and was about to be burned alive. It wasn’t until Judah, her Father-in-Law had been busted, for it was he who slept with her, thinking that she was a hooker and just wanted to “get a little.” Judah is in the genealogy of Christ, and perhaps this is an influence for his decision to grant her his form of Grace, Compassion, and Mercy, for Tamar was allowed to live.


King David showed his form of Grace, Compassion, and Mercy as he dealt with Shimei. Great story!


2 Samuel 16:5-13 NLT – “As King David came to Bahurim, a man came out of the village cursing them. It was Shimei son of Gera, from the same clan as Saul's family. 6 He threw stones at the king and the king's officers and all the mighty warriors who surrounded him. 7 "Get out of here, you murderer, you scoundrel!" he shouted at David. 8 "The LORD is paying you back for all the bloodshed in Saul's clan. You stole his throne, and now the LORD has given it to your son Absalom. At last you will taste some of your own medicine, for you are a murderer!" 9 "Why should this dead dog curse my lord the king?" Abishai son of Zeruiah demanded. "Let me go over and cut off his head!" 10 "No!" the king said. "Who asked your opinion, you sons of Zeruiah! If the LORD has told him to curse me, who are you to stop him?" 11 Then David said to Abishai and to all his servants, "My own son is trying to kill me. Doesn't this relative of Saul have even more reason to do so? Leave him alone and let him curse, for the LORD has told him to do it. 12 And perhaps the LORD will see that I am being wronged and will bless me because of these curses today." 13 So David and his men continued down the road, and Shimei kept pace with them on a nearby hillside, cursing as he went and throwing stones at David and tossing dust into the air.”


The above story is a picture of Christ, making an example of himself, David, for others to follow. Instead of returning the favor to Shimei, David extended his Grace and placed Shimei’s sin into the hands of his Lord. David also extended this same Grace to king Saul . . . over and over again. So I see a consistency between the Old Testament and the New . . . and why wouldn’t there be? We’re told to have the [same] Faith like that of Abraham. To have the same Faith as another is to say that one thinks and believes the same as the other. – “Romans 4:12 NLT – “And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised.”


For a little more perspective on adultery and how the Lord views it, we shouldn’t forget how Hosea was told to marry a prostitute and to be intimate with her regardless of her “job.” - Hosea 1:2-3 NLT – “When the LORD first began speaking to Israel through Hosea, he said to him, "Go and marry a prostitute, so that some of her children will be conceived in prostitution. This will illustrate how Israel has acted like a prostitute by turning against the LORD and worshiping other gods." So Hosea married Gomer, the daughter of Diblaim, and she became pregnant and gave Hosea a son.”


Pretty wild stuff.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

I think I will follow for now. Im never sure how to answer with questions like this, except the Old Covenant and New Covenant are completely different. There is no animal sacrifice or anything. Im not even sure if "Christians" after Christ went up, still stoned people and things, or if that all changed. Jesus came and everything changed. I know that much.

Consider yourself to be in a good place. You're being led through some of the deeper parts of the Bible that virtually no one is discussing. These things are what the Bible is deeply about.

 

[amadeus]

Question: What is your response whenever someone says that the Old Testament and New Testament Gods were clearly two different Deities, based for example on how strictly they enforced laws on sins like adultery.

In the Old Testament, the command was placed into Jewish law that anyone caught in adultery should be stoned to death. Yet in the New Testament, a woman actually was caught in adultery, and Jesus did not encourage the Jews to enforce that law as given by God (passage provided below).

Was Jesus, the God of the New Testament, different in His handling of this situation than the God of the Old Testament? Or were the two entirely consistent in how they dealt with it?

God bless, and thanks to any and all who respond.
@marks, @WaterSong, @Mayflower, @2nd Timothy Group, @charity, @Behold.

1 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. 3 Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, 4 they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?” 6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.

7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” 8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”

11 She said, “No one, Lord.”

And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.” (John 8:1-11)

David, the King of Israel was guilty of adultery and murder, either one alone punishable by death under the law given to Moses:

"Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.
Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife.
Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.
For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun.
And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die." II Sam 12:9-13

Guilty he was and David knew he deserved no mercy, but God was merciful:

"The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die"

God has not changed. The walkway for people has changed but what God ultimately wants to see in, and to receive from, people has not changed:

"For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." Psalm 51:16-17

People speak of it being a different God in the OT from He who is in the NT, but for me He is and always has been the same. Some people who speak of Him being different have not really known God or they have never really gotten into what was happening in the OT. God is the same. He does not change. He never has changed. He never will change. Part of getting to know God, of moving from seeing through a glass darkly to seeing face to face comes to pass as we look at what did happen in the OT as well the the NT. We need to see and understand all that He has given us, not just certain selected pieces.

 

[Philip James]

And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.” (John 8:1-11)

Same God, no contradiction:

Though I say to the virtuous man that he shall surely live, if he then presumes on his virtue and does wrong, none of his virtuous deeds shall be remembered; because of the wrong he has done, he shall die.

And though I say to the wicked man that he shall surely die, if he turns away from his sin and does what is right and just,


giving back pledges, restoring stolen goods, living by the statutes that bring life, and doing no wrong, he shall surely live, he shall not die.


None of the sins he committed shall be held against him; he has done what is right and just, he shall surely live.


Yet your countrymen say, "The way of the LORD is not fair!"; but it is their way that is not fair.


When a virtuous man turns away from what is right and does wrong, he shall die for it.


But when a wicked man turns away from wickedness and does what is right and just, because of this he shall live.


And still you say, "The way of the LORD is not fair!"? I will judge every one of you according to his ways, O house of Israel.


Peace be with you!

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

David, the King of Israel was guilty of adultery and murder, either punishable by death under the law given to Moses. both punishable by death:

"Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.
Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife.
Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.
For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun.
And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die." II Sam 12:9-13

Guilty he was and David knew he deserved no mercy, but God was merciful:

"The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die"

God has not changed. The walkway for people has changed but what God ultimately wants to see in and to receive from people has not changed:

"For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." Psalm 51:16-17

People speak of it being a different God in the NT from He who is in the NT, but for me He is and always has been the same. Some people who speak of Him being different have not really known God or they have never really gotten into what was happening in the OT. God is the same. He does not change. He never has changed. He never will change. Part of getting to know God, of moving from seeing through a glass darkly to seeing face to face comes to pass as we look at what did happen in the OT as well the the NT. We need to see and understand all that He has given us, not just certain selected pieces.

I can't imagine a better reply. Seasoned.

 

[Mayflower]

Same God, no contradiction:

Though I say to the virtuous man that he shall surely live, if he then presumes on his virtue and does wrong, none of his virtuous deeds shall be remembered; because of the wrong he has done, he shall die.

And though I say to the wicked man that he shall surely die, if he turns away from his sin and does what is right and just,


giving back pledges, restoring stolen goods, living by the statutes that bring life, and doing no wrong, he shall surely live, he shall not die.


None of the sins he committed shall be held against him; he has done what is right and just, he shall surely live.


Yet your countrymen say, "The way of the LORD is not fair!"; but it is their way that is not fair.


When a virtuous man turns away from what is right and does wrong, he shall die for it.


But when a wicked man turns away from wickedness and does what is right and just, because of this he shall live.


And still you say, "The way of the LORD is not fair!"? I will judge every one of you according to his ways, O house of Israel.


Peace be with you!

Wow. This is great. What is the address to this?

 

[Philip James]

Wow. This is great. What is the address to this?

Ezekial 33: 13-20

 

[Behold]

Question: What is your response whenever someone says that the Old Testament and New Testament Gods were clearly two different Deities, based for example on how strictly they enforced laws on sins like adultery.

God said...."let us make Man in OUR Image".
He's not talking about Himself and the host of Heaven.
He's speaking of Himself as the Word and as the Father, and as the Holy Spirit.

Jesus said, "i go to My Father, and Your Father".

Thomas said......"my Lord and my GOD"< and Jesus did not correct him.

God said to Moses.. "I AM that I AM".

Jesus said to the Pharisees...."before Moses was, I AM".

Colossians says....>"all things that are made were created BY and THOUGH Jesus."

John 1:10 states that '" Jesus was in the world HE CREATED"

God said "let there BE".....and these are WORDS.

Jesus is the WORD made FLESH..


So, the reason that Jesus can forgive sin........and say ...."and neither do i Judge you", and that "the Son of Man has power to forgive Sins", in Matt 9 is because Jesus is GOD, and God is above His Law.
He's superior to it, because God is actually more Holy then any of this, legal stuff.
See, the maker of the Law, is superior to what He Creates.

Jesus said, John 13. "a NEW Commandment i give unto you"... because He is GOD who made all the others.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Same God.

The punishments in the OT affected the flesh temporally, administered by man according to the law.

The punishments in the NT will affect the soul eternally, administered by God and Christ according to his word.

Greetings, Michiah-Imla, and blessings in Christ.

I agree it is the exact same God. This reply suggests that He conducts himself differently in the matter of punishing sin, however, and this is where we would disagree, as per the following:

Though I say to the virtuous man that he shall surely live, if he then presumes on his virtue and does wrong, none of his virtuous deeds shall be remembered; because of the wrong he has done, he shall die. And though I say to the wicked man that he shall surely die, if he turns away from his sin and does what is right and just, giving back pledges, restoring stolen goods, living by the statutes that bring life, and doing no wrong, he shall surely live, he shall not die. None of the sins he committed shall be held against him; he has done what is right and just, he shall surely live. Yet your countrymen say, "The way of the LORD is not fair!"; but it is their way that is not fair. When a virtuous man turns away from what is right and does wrong, he shall die for it. But when a wicked man turns away from wickedness and does what is right and just, because of this he shall live. And still you say, "The way of the LORD is not fair!"? I will judge every one of you according to his ways, O house of Israel.

This is fabulous passage, Philip, and gets to the heart of what I believe as well, so I might as well give my answer now. In missing passages like you quoited here, many think of only the Old Testament laws and examples of God's Old Testament judgments and think He was only ever severe, not realizing that He was also a God of mercy back then as well. Likewise, many read of instances of Christ's mercy in New Testament times and assume He was not also a God of severity.

@amadeus gave an excellent example of His mercies, something David was familiar with. David should have been stoned to death once it was revealed by the prophet that he had not only committed adultery but killed the woman's husband. But despite being a grave sinner, David had a heart for God and a great desire to please Him, and this saved his backside. God turns judgment away from those who are truly willing to judge themselves and correct their actions, because what He is ultimately after is simply correction.

The New Testament, meanwhile gives several instances of God's severity in His judgments. To the church at Thyatira, the Lord Jesus Christ Himself wrote:

20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against you, because you suffer that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great affliction unless they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He which searches the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. (Revelation 2:20-23)

This is only one example. Several could be cited from the NT to prove that He was stern and severe in New Testament times as much as in the Old, if not more so. Thus, the fact is that He is not only the same God in both the Old and New Testaments, but still operated in much the same way when it came to executing judgment on sinners. When situations called for it He showed mercy, but when they did not He showed severity in judgment.

 

[Hidden In Him]

God said...."let us make Man in OUR Image".
He's not talking about Himself and the host of Heaven.
He's speaking of Himself as the Word and as the Father, and as the Holy Spirit.

Jesus said, "i go to My Father, and Your Father".

Thomas said......"my Lord and my GOD"< and Jesus did not correct him.

God said to Moses.. "I AM that I AM".

Jesus said to the Pharisees...."before Moses was, I AM".

Colossians says....>"all things that are made were created BY and THOUGH Jesus."

John 1:10 states that '" Jesus was in the world HE CREATED"

God said "let there BE".....and these are WORDS.

Jesus is the WORD made FLESH..

So, the reason that Jesus can forgive sin........and say ...."and neither do i Judge you", and that "the Son of Man has power to forgive Sins", in Matt 9 is because Jesus is GOD, and God is above His Law.
He's superior to it, because God is actually more Holy then any of this, legal stuff.
See, the maker of the Law, is superior to what He Creates.

Jesus said, John 13. "a NEW Commandment i give unto you"... because He is GOD who made all the others.

Greetings, Behold, and thanks for responding.

There are aspects to your post I disagree with, but I do agree with your point that He is God, and can judge as He sees fit.

This goes entirely in line with what I was saying in Post #15 above.

God bless, and good post.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The above story is a picture of Christ, making an example of himself, David, for others to follow. Instead of returning the favor to Shimei, David extended his Grace and placed Shimei’s sin into the hands of his Lord. David also extended this same Grace to king Saul . . . over and over again. So I see a consistency between the Old Testament and the New . . . and why wouldn’t there be? We’re told to have the [same] Faith like that of Abraham. To have the same Faith as another is to say that one thinks and believes the same as the other. – “Romans 4:12 NLT – “And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised.”

For a little more perspective on adultery and how the Lord views it, we shouldn’t forget how X was told to marry a prostitute, and to be intimate with her regardless of her “job.” - Hosea 1:2-3 NLT – “When the LORD first began speaking to Israel through Hosea, he said to him, "Go and marry a prostitute, so that some of her children will be conceived in prostitution. This will illustrate how Israel has acted like a prostitute by turning against the LORD and worshiping other gods." So Hosea married Gomer, the daughter of Diblaim, and she became pregnant and gave Hosea a son.”

Pretty wild stuff.

Excellent points! Especially the one about Abraham being our spiritual faith - the father of faith - and thus having believed in the same type of God : )

 

[Hidden In Him]

I can't imagine a better reply. Seasoned.

Agreed!

@Mayflower, see Post #15 for my answer to the question (since you were going to sit it out).

 

[WaterSong]

Isaiah 1:11-14 NLT - "What makes you think I want all your sacrifices?" says the LORD. "I am sick of your burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fattened cattle. I get no pleasure from the blood of bulls and lambs and goats. When you come to worship me, who asked you to parade through my courts with all your ceremony? Stop bringing me your meaningless gifts; the incense of your offerings disgusts me! As for your celebrations of the new moon and the Sabbath and your special days for fasting--they are all sinful and false. I want no more of your pious meetings. I hate your new moon celebrations and your annual festivals. They are a burden to me. I cannot stand them!"

Exodus 29:15 “You are to take one ram, and Aaron and his sons are to lay their hands on the ram’s head, 16 and you are to kill the ram and take its blood and splash it all around on the altar. 17 Then you are to cut the ram into pieces and wash the entrails and its legs and put them on its pieces and on its head 18 and burn the whole ram on the altar. It is a burnt offering to the Lord, a soothing aroma; it is an offering made by fire to the Lord.

Hebrews 10:5-10 NKJV – “Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: "Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, But a body You have prepared for Me. In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You had no pleasure. Then I said, 'Behold, I have come--In the volume of the book it is written of Me--To do Your will, O God.' "Previously saying, "Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them" (which are offered according to the law), then He said, "Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God." He takes away the first that He may establish the second. By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

Another great Biblical problem to solve. You know your stuff.


I can’t think of anything greater to know about this other than how the Lord [never] wanted sacrifice for Israel, rather, He would prefer that Israel offer their own form of Grace, Compassion, and Mercy for those who have sinned against them. Of course, this applies to we Gentiles as well. God would have rather that humans surrender their Hearts to the Lord so that they would obey, thus not needing animal sacrifice for the expiation of sin. It is better to live in Righteousness than to live in sin which results in a slaughtered but perfect animal.

Ezekiel 20:18-26
Israel’s Rebellion
18 “‘But I said to their children in the wilderness, “Do not follow the practices of your fathers; do not observe their regulations, nor defile yourselves with their idols. 19 I am the Lord your God; follow my statutes, observe my regulations, and carry them out. 20 Treat my Sabbaths as holy and they will be a reminder of our relationship, and then you will know that I am the Lord your God.” 21 But the children rebelled against me, did not follow my statutes, did not observe my regulations by carrying them out (the one who obeys them will live by them), and desecrated my Sabbaths. I decided to pour out my rage on them and fully vent my anger against them in the wilderness. 22 But I refrained from doing so and acted instead for the sake of my reputation, so that I would not be profaned before the nations in whose sight I had brought them out. 23 I also swore to them in the wilderness that I would scatter them among the nations and disperse them throughout the lands. 24 I did this because they did not observe my regulations, they rejected my statutes, they desecrated my Sabbaths, and their eyes were fixed on their fathers’ idols. 25 I also gave them decrees that were not good and regulations by which they could not live. 26 I declared them to be defiled because of their sacrifices—they caused all their firstborn to pass through the fire—so that I might devastate them, so that they would know that I am the Lord.’

Smell of burning flesh & blood pleases God: Genesis 8, Exodus 29 (Above) Leviticus 1,2, 3,4,6, 8.
Numbers chapters 15,18,28,29.

Human sacrifice:
Genesis 22:
15 The angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second time from heaven 16 and said, “I solemnly swear by my own name, decrees the Lord, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will indeed bless you, and I will greatly multiply your descendants so that they will be as countless as the stars in the sky or the grains of sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the strongholds of their enemies. 18 Because you have obeyed me, all the nations of the earth will pronounce blessings on one another using the name of your descendants.”
19 Then Abraham returned to his servants, and they set out together for Beer Sheba where Abraham stayed.

 

[WaterSong]

Exodus 22:
Moral and Ceremonial Laws
29 “Do not hold back offerings from your granaries or your vats. You must give me the firstborn of your sons. 30 You must also do this for your oxen and for your sheep; seven days they may remain with their mothers, but give them to me on the eighth day.


Exodus 34:
19 “Every firstborn of the womb belongs to me, even every firstborn of your cattle that is a male, whether ox or sheep. 20 Now the firstling of a donkey you may redeem with a lamb, but if you do not redeem it, then break its neck. You must redeem all the firstborn of your sons.

Leviticus 27:
Things Permanently Dedicated to the Lord
28 “‘Surely anything that a man permanently dedicates to the Lord from all that belongs to him, whether from people, animals, or his landed property, must be neither sold nor redeemed; anything permanently dedicated is most holy to the Lord. 29 Any human being who is permanently dedicated to the Lord must not be ransomed; such a person must be put to death.

Exodus 33:19 is a Keystone Passage, as it states that the Lord grants His Grace, Mercy, and Compassion upon anyone that He so chooses. The Apostle Paul is a prime example. We, too, are supposed to offer our own form of Grace, Compassion, and Mercy to all who cause us harm. Why? Because as a True Child of God, you will have realized the Grace of Christ having been given you, thus it will be a Spiritually Natural response to return Grace and Understanding to your offender. There is actually much written about the Lord not desiring sacrifice in the Old Testament, and it is reiterated in the New Testament. It is amazing how much there is! That said, it is still easy to see how the Israelite would not have understood. They were clearly commanded to kill even a woman like Tamara, the Daughter-in-Law to Judah, for at a glance, it appeared that she played the role of Harlot and was about to be burned alive. It wasn’t until Judah, her Father-in-Law had been busted, for it was he who slept with her, thinking that she was a hooker and just wanted to “get a little.” Judah is in the genealogy of Christ, and perhaps this is an influence for his decision to grant her his form of Grace, Compassion, and Mercy, for Tamara was allowed to live.


King David showed his form of Grace, Compassion, and Mercy as he dealt with Shimei. Great story!


2 Samuel 16:5-13 NLT – “As King David came to Bahurim, a man came out of the village cursing them. It was Shimei son of Gera, from the same clan as Saul's family. 6 He threw stones at the king and the king's officers and all the mighty warriors who surrounded him. 7 "Get out of here, you murderer, you scoundrel!" he shouted at David. 8 "The LORD is paying you back for all the bloodshed in Saul's clan. You stole his throne, and now the LORD has given it to your son Absalom. At last you will taste some of your own medicine, for you are a murderer!" 9 "Why should this dead dog curse my lord the king?" Abishai son of Zeruiah demanded. "Let me go over and cut off his head!" 10 "No!" the king said. "Who asked your opinion, you sons of Zeruiah! If the LORD has told him to curse me, who are you to stop him?" 11 Then David said to Abishai and to all his servants, "My own son is trying to kill me. Doesn't this relative of Saul have even more reason to do so? Leave him alone and let him curse, for the LORD has told him to do it. 12 And perhaps the LORD will see that I am being wronged and will bless me because of these curses today." 13 So David and his men continued down the road, and Shimei kept pace with them on a nearby hillside, cursing as he went and throwing stones at David and tossing dust into the air.”

The above story is a picture of Christ, making an example of himself, David, for others to follow. Instead of returning the favor to Shimei, David extended his Grace and placed Shimei’s sin into the hands of his Lord. David also extended this same Grace to king Saul . . . over and over again. So I see a consistency between the Old Testament and the New . . . and why wouldn’t there be? We’re told to have the [same] Faith like that of Abraham. To have the same Faith as another is to say that one thinks and believes the same as the other. – “Romans 4:12 NLT – “And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised.”

Bible Dictionary: Justification = Salvation
BibleGateway.com Dictionaries: JUSTIFICATION
(sic)"...a forensic term, opposed to condemnation. As regards its nature, it is the judicial act of God, by which he pardons all the sins of those who believe in Christ, and accounts, accepts, and treats them as righteous in the eye of the law, i.e., as conformed to all its demands. In addition to the pardon (q.v.) of sin, justification declares that all the claims of the law are satisfied in respect of the justified. It is the act of a judge and not of a sovereign. The law is not relaxed or set aside, but is declared to be fulfilled in the strictest sense; and so the person justified is declared to be entitled to all the advantages and rewards arising from perfect obedience to the law (Rom. 5:1-10)."

James 2:
Faith and Works Together
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but does not have works? Can this kind of faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacks daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm and eat well,” but you do not give them what the body needs, what good is it? 17 So also faith, if it does not have works, is dead being by itself. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith without works and I will show you faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; well and good. Even the demons believe that—and tremble with fear.

Justification/Salvation in the Old Testament (OT)
Isaiah 45:
21.Tell me! Present the evidence!
Let them consult with one another.
Who predicted this in the past?
Who announced it beforehand?
Was it not I, the Lord?
I have no peer, there is no God but me,
a God who vindicates and delivers;
there is none but me.
22 Turn to me so you can be delivered,
all you who live in the earth’s remote regions!
For I am God, and I have no peer.
23 I solemnly make this oath—
what I say is true and reliable:
‘Surely every knee will bow to me,
every tongue will solemnly affirm;
24 they will say about me,
“Yes, the Lord is a powerful deliverer.”’”
All who are angry at him will cower before him.
25 All the descendants of Israel will be vindicated by the Lord
and will boast in him.
How were Old Testament Saints Justified? | Union Resources

For a little more perspective on adultery and how the Lord views it, we shouldn’t forget how X was told to marry a prostitute, and to be intimate with her regardless of her “job.” - Hosea 1:2-3 NLT – “When the LORD first began speaking to Israel through Hosea, he said to him, "Go and marry a prostitute, so that some of her children will be conceived in prostitution. This will illustrate how Israel has acted like a prostitute by turning against the LORD and worshiping other gods." So Hosea married Gomer, the daughter of Diblaim, and she became pregnant and gave Hosea a son.”


Pretty wild stuff.

Indeed.