Your Thoughts: Are The NT/OT Gods "Different"?

[101G]

Addressing the OP,
One poster got it right, it's the same God. and one thing to understand, it is how he, the LORD JESUS, dealt with HARD HEAD, STIFF NECKED Israel, (And NOW US his church), because Job was not of the nation of Israel, and Job was keeping the feast day, (JOB 1:2 & 3), before Israel was even a nation. or HOW God's, the Lord Jesus, Love toward Ruth who was ENGRAFTED, (AS WE GENTILES), into the promise Nation/Land. THIS SHOWS US GOD IS FOR ALL OF HIS CREATIONS. or Tamar likewise, . so the LORD JESUS is no different or .... no respect of person.... only obedience is better than sacrifice. and that same attitude is today, God, the Lord Jesus still hate sin.

so if one read the OT and the NT just measure or Judge for yourself. the reason why I believe many have this view, is in the NT we have more detail information that we did in the OT. we didn't have to many one on one's conversation recorded as we have in the NT. in the OT, where it was more of a "corporate", as a whole, in decisions, and actions taken vs individual actions, that seldom taken.

but as said, God showed mercy after mercy on Israel, even after that had Sin, and repented, but went back to the same old ways. so when you look at God's mercy toward obedience, and many time God let many, make their own choice, God stilled "SAVE". as today, nothing new under the sun, as we still act a Jack with nine tails, God mercy stills endures. his Love never changes.

again, why many still see a difference, God is a Holy God, and we're not. God is light years ahead of us, but has taken his time in helping us, yes from the OT to today. Just on that we need to count our blessing. as the Apostle said, Romans 9:22 "What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much long suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:" BINGO.

his desire is for all men to be saved.

and instead of Judging/looking at God, why don't we look at ourselves. ask yourself, do I really deserve his mercy, and his Grace? have you really been that "GOOD?"........ before we make a judgment on God if he's the same, or different, why not let us judge ourselves first before we Judge God.

he has allowed us the eat drink, and sleep, and he has even let us squeeze the charmin. see why don't we look at the little thing God has done for us. Matthew 5:45 "That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."

see, it's "his" sun, "his" air we breathes, "his" water.... when was the last time you paid God a water bill? thank you.... see, if we just righteously check the books we all come up short......... I mean real short.

so before we go and want to RUSH to balance God on the righteous scales of Justice to see if he's different or not in the OT and the NT, I suggest you refraim from that ridiculous idea.

if anything, I highly suggest that we thank him, and praise him in Spirit and in TRUTH.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Excellent points! Especially the one about Abraham being our spiritual faith - the father of faith - and thus having believed in the same type of God : )

Thanks! And I suppose this is as good of a time as any to tell you that "X" is supposed to be Hosea. Couldn't remember his name, nor did I remember to come back to the spot of X and fix it.

 

[JesusLovesYou]

Question: What is your response whenever someone says that the Old Testament and New Testament Gods were clearly two different Deities, based for example on how strictly they enforced laws on sins like adultery.

In the Old Testament, the command was placed into Jewish law that anyone caught in adultery should be stoned to death. Yet in the New Testament, a woman actually was caught in adultery, and Jesus did not encourage the Jews to enforce that law as given by God (passage provided below).

Was Jesus, the God of the New Testament, different in His handling of this situation than the God of the Old Testament? Or were the two entirely consistent in how they dealt with it?

God bless, and thanks to any and all who respond.
@marks, @WaterSong, @Mayflower, @2nd Timothy Group, @charity, @Behold.

1 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. 3 Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, 4 they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?” 6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.

7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” 8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”

11 She said, “No one, Lord.”

And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.” (John 8:1-11)

The Bible says that “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever” (Hebrews 13:8), and as Christians, we believe that Jesus pre-existed his existence here on earth. Therefore, we are not talking about two Gods, but rather about God being holy in the Old Testament, and God being full of grace in the New Testament. The one verse that brings out the idea that God in the New Testament is the same as always is John 13:34. There we are told to love one another sacrificially, as Jesus showed us God’s love. God loved us enough to give us his best: the one and only Son. We, as God’s children, should love others the same way, giving up our selves for the benefit of others. Unfortunately, often times this verse is interpreted something like “ones should loves others”, as if ones were all sinners and others were all perfect. The truth is we are all the same. The only difference between those living today and those living thousands of years before us is the times we are living in. The law of God is the same as it was when it was first given, but when we think of it in terms of “do’s” rather than “don’ts”, it makes more sense and seems easier to practice, and we understand the character of God better.

 

[WaterSong]

The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. The Bible also says that no man has seen God at any time. It is the Only Begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father who has revealed Him.

So when God walked in the Garden of Eden, it was the pre-incarnate Christ. When God met Moses at the burning bush it was the Angel of the LORD (the pre-incarnate Christ). And so it was throughout the OT.

Exodus 33:20
But He said, “You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live.”

John 1:18
No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

1 John 4:12
No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.


Genesis 32:30
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: “For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.”

Exodus 33:11
So the Lord spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend. And he would return to the camp, but his servant Joshua the son of Nun, a young man, did not depart from the tabernacle.

 

[WaterSong]

The Bible says that “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever” (Hebrews 13:8), and as Christians, we believe that Jesus pre-existed his existence here on earth. Therefore, we are not talking about two Gods, but rather about God being holy in the Old Testament, and God being full of grace in the New Testament. The one verse that brings out the idea that God in the New Testament is the same as always is John 13:34. There we are told to love one another sacrificially, as Jesus showed us God’s love. God loved us enough to give us his best: the one and only Son. We, as God’s children, should love others the same way, giving up our selves for the benefit of others. Unfortunately, often times this verse is interpreted something like “ones should loves others”, as if ones were all sinners and others were all perfect. The truth is we are all the same. The only difference between those living today and those living thousands of years before us is the times we are living in. The law of God is the same as it was when it was first given, but when we think of it in terms of “do’s” rather than “don’ts”, it makes more sense and seems easier to practice, and we understand the character of God better.

Maybe the reason for the two God's query is because God the Father depicted in the OT is quite different than how he portrays himself and his teachings in the New.
Exodus 21:22 “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."

Matthew 5:38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

 

[Mayflower]

Ezekial 33: 13-20

Edited. Was looking in Exodus.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Question: What is your response whenever someone says that the Old Testament and New Testament Gods were clearly two different Deities, based for example on how strictly they enforced laws on sins like adultery.

In the Old Testament, the command was placed into Jewish law that anyone caught in adultery should be stoned to death. Yet in the New Testament, a woman actually was caught in adultery, and Jesus did not encourage the Jews to enforce that law as given by God (passage provided below).

Was Jesus, the God of the New Testament, different in His handling of this situation than the God of the Old Testament? Or were the two entirely consistent in how they dealt with it?

God bless, and thanks to any and all who respond.
@marks, @WaterSong, @Mayflower, @2nd Timothy Group, @charity, @Behold.

1 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. 3 Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, 4 they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?” 6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.

7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” 8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”

11 She said, “No one, Lord.”

And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.” (John 8:1-11)

Nope!

Two different times with 2 different situations showing the different characters of the same God.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Addressing the OP,
One poster got it right, it's the same God. and one thing to understand, it is how he, the LORD JESUS, dealt with HARD HEAD, STIFF NECKED Israel, (And NOW US his church), because Job was not of the nation of Israel, and Job was keeping the feast day, (JOB 1:2 & 3), before Israel was even a nation. or HOW God's, the Lord Jesus, Love toward Ruth who was ENGRAFTED, (AS WE GENTILES), into the promise Nation/Land. THIS SHOWS US GOD IS FOR ALL OF HIS CREATIONS. or Tamar likewise, . so the LORD JESUS is no different or .... no respect of person.... only obedience is better than sacrifice. and that same attitude is today, God, the Lord Jesus still hate sin.

That's a decent point. He was also using a non-Jew for a prophet, until that prophet got greedy for power and sold out for money's sake (Balaam).

... addressing the first line, I think He is still dealing with the nations in judgment as well, and will be even more so in the future, which I think is especially where you see Him very similar in His severity. Some teach against the idea that there are no more "prophets to the nations," but I find it a strange belief. Seems to me that would constitute making Him a different God in some ways.

God bless, and thanks for the response.

 

[Cooper]

There is only one God, but in the main the Israelites worshiped pagan idols, even practising child sacrifice. Jesus told them who their god was in John 8:44.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Thanks! And I suppose this is as good of a time as any to tell you that "X" is supposed to be Hosea. Couldn't remember his name, nor did I remember to come back to the spot of X and fix it.

LoL! You know, it's strange how one can read right past things and never skip a beat. People have told me they do that with my typos (thankfully). I think the only thing I thought when my eyes read through that was this momentary thought of, "X?... you mean like Racer X?" and then just kept moving, LoL.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The Bible says that “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever” (Hebrews 13:8), and as Christians, we believe that Jesus pre-existed his existence here on earth. Therefore, we are not talking about two Gods, but rather about God being holy in the Old Testament, and God being full of grace in the New Testament. The one verse that brings out the idea that God in the New Testament is the same as always is John 13:34. There we are told to love one another sacrificially, as Jesus showed us God’s love. God loved us enough to give us his best: the one and only Son. We, as God’s children, should love others the same way, giving up our selves for the benefit of others. Unfortunately, often times this verse is interpreted something like “ones should loves others”, as if ones were all sinners and others were all perfect. The truth is we are all the same. The only difference between those living today and those living thousands of years before us is the times we are living in. The law of God is the same as it was when it was first given, but when we think of it in terms of “do’s” rather than “don’ts”, it makes more sense and seems easier to practice, and we understand the character of God better.

Greetings and welcome to the Forum.

This response reminds me of what Jesus defined as the two greatest commandments of God. "Love the Lord your God with your whole heart, mind, soul and strength, and love your neighbor as your self." Neither are new commandments but old ones, just as John said, "A new commandment I do not write to you, but one you have had from the beginning."

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Exodus 33:20
But He said, “You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live.”

John 1:18
No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

1 John 4:12
No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.


Genesis 32:30
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: “For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.”

Exodus 33:11
So the Lord spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend. And he would return to the camp, but his servant Joshua the son of Nun, a young man, did not depart from the tabernacle.

Ok. An interesting response.

Let me ask you something first, sister: Do you differentiate between the Father and the Son as being two separate entities?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Nope!

Two different times with 2 different situations showing the different characters of the same God.

I agree for the most part, although with "showing the different characters of the same God" I pause... I think He suddenly began showing a different side of His plan where the Gentiles were concerned, and a different side of His plan where sacrifices were concerned. Different characters in the midst of those thing? Not so much for me. But maybe you are referring to something else, and if so please feel free to explain.

Sorry about not tagging you for this one, btw, and I appreciate your contributions.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Maybe the reason for the two God's query is because God the Father depicted in the OT is quite different than how he portrays himself and his teachings in the New.
Exodus 21:22 “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."

Matthew 5:38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Ah! Here is the classic argument!

Now, my response to this is that He never changed but was speaking to two different classes of people. That you might say is supposition, but in light of the rest of Christ's teachings, it becomes clear that He was speaking to carnal Israel in the Old Testament and spiritual Israel in the New. This is evident in that His promises to natural Israel regarded an earthly inheritance (Deuteronomy 28), whereas His promises to spiritual Israel regarded a Heavenly one (Matthew 5:11-12, Matthew 6:19-21).

What would you say to that argument?

 

[Hidden In Him]

There is only one God, but in the main the Israelites worshiped pagan idols, even practising child sacrifice. Jesus told them who their god was in John 8:44.

Greetings, Cooper.

This one I would be leery of myself. It comes close to smacking of being anti-Semitic. Not that you were saying that intentionally, so please don't take offense, but the problem there is while many of the Jews did indeed fall into grave sin and pagan idolatry, the nation as a whole was not given over to it at the time of John 8:44. In fact, it was from amongst the Jews at that time that God chose twelve men who would become the leaders of His church, and Peter and Paul both referred to the nation of Israel as having been chosen by God from amongst all the nations of the earth.

God bless,
- H

 

[Cooper]

Thanks! And I suppose this is as good of a time as any to tell you that "X" is supposed to be Hosea. Couldn't remember his name, nor did I remember to come back to the spot of X and fix it.

The question needs to be along the lines of "Did the Old Testament people, worship the Father of Jesus or the gods represented by the Golden Calf?"
.

 

[Cooper]

Greetings, Cooper.

This one I would be leery of myself. It comes close to smacking of being anti-Semitic. Not that you were saying that intentionally, so please don't take offense, but the problem there is while many of the Jews did indeed fall into grave sin and pagan idolatry, the nation as a whole was not given over to it at the time of John 8:44. In fact, it was from amongst the Jews at that time that God chose twelve men who would become the leaders of His church, and Peter and Paul both referred to the nation of Israel as having been chosen by God from amongst all the nations of the earth.

God bless,
- H

The Israelites are indeed a chosen nation, but that is not to say the Israelites chose Christ.
.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The Israelites are indeed a chosen nation, but that is not to say the Israelites chose Christ.

Some certainly did though, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Nancy]

Excellent points! Especially the one about Abraham being our spiritual faith - the father of faith - and thus having believed in the same type of God : )

Amen, agreed. Same kind of "faith" as well

 

[Cooper]

Some certainly did though, wouldn't you agree?

So, coming up to date, do the people who attend Synagogue worship Jesus?
.