Your Thoughts: Are The NT/OT Gods "Different"?

[Truman]

I believe that Genesis 1:26 is Father, Jesus, and Holy Spirit talking among Themselves/Himself.
In my limited way, I describe us as a two-dimensional image of a three-dimensional God.
He lives in a heavenly realm that is much more than ours.
Jesus used parables to relate this to us.
Having had a vision of His glory, I can say that He is awesome beyond what our words are able to convey.

 

[Mayflower]

I believe that Genesis 1:26 is Father, Jesus, and Holy Spirit talking among Themselves/Himself.
In my limited way, I describe us as a two-dimensional image of a three-dimensional God.
He lives in a heavenly realm that is much more than ours.
Jesus used parables to relate this to us.
Having had a vision of His glory, I can say that He is awesome beyond what our words are able to convey.

We are actually three part beings like God.

Body
Soul/mind
Spirit/heart

 

[amadeus]

Hi HIH,
This is a short reply, but your opening post prompted me to reflect around the matter of God not changing, yet I have always seen a difference in the OT to the NT. Then the word ‘ relationship ‘ came into my thoughts along with the notion that if it wasn’t God that changed, then it was us that did. As I considered the O T , the main themes are mans desires to rebel and do things our way, to be in control and desire a different path. This brings endless consequences, including war, division, separation, and loss. The NT shows how things can be when we accept God ways, stop rebelling and accept our place in the relationship.
As I said,this is short and probably doesn’t really fit in, but I thought I would share what the OP prompted me to consider xx
Rita

How God treated and/or judged people, OT and NT, is expressed here in the words of Jesus:

"And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:47-48

If a person is given Moses, Aaron and the written laws what he does with what he has been given is the basis for God's judgement.

If a person is given a written Bible and is filled with the baptism of the Holy Ghost what he does with what he has been given is the basis for God's judgement.

What else is everyone given by God? A certain amount of time [length of natural life]; a certain good or poor general physical health; a certain kind of parents [rich, poor, educated, God fearing, atheists, etc.]; birth into a certain kind of society; and so forth.

Only God is capable of fairly judging any person because only God knows exactly what He has provided each and every person and what each and every person has done with what was provided.

 

[Hidden In Him]

In verse 14 of that 1st Corinthians chapter 10, don't you think it reflects Paul is speaking present tense to those who are carnal Israel right then and there?
14 Wherefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry.

Well no, my sister. It sounds like Paul might be talking about offering up children to Molech or worshipping Baal or something, like they did in Old Testament times, but when you look at the context of the surrounding Chapters, he is actually talking about eating foods dedicated to pagan idols.

He starts Chapter 8 with the following:

1 Now concerning things offered to idols: We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies... 4 Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one. 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live... 9 But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a [c]stumbling block to those who are weak. 10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols? 11 And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? 12 But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.

Then in Chapter 9 he turns to saying how he becomes all things to all men in order to win as many as possible to Christ, i.e. by what he eats or does not eat, according to Jewish law:

20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some... 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Then starts Chapter 10, where he brings up the idolatries of Israel, and then relates it to the idolatries of eating meats sacrificed to pagan idols in front of Christian Jews:

7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play... 13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. 14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry. 15 I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say. 16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? 17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread. 18 Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? 19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? 20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. 21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table and of the table of devils.

See how it all comes together? The idolatry he is referring to in v.14 is in reference to Christians fleeing the idolatry of eating meats sacrificed to idols. This is why he then switches in v.16 to discussing them partaking of the Lord's cup together instead, and then back to eating idol sacrifices again in v.19-21.

 

[Brakelite]

@Hidden
Love these kind of discussions. Thanks for the invi...oh, nah. Never mind . Here's my two cents worth anyway.

God, speaking through His Son on Sinai, revealed to Moses His name. Names in the OT tradition were a descriptor of character.
Exodus 34:5 ¶ And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.
6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
8 And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.

Throughout old testament history however, man had grossly misunderstood God. Even today as evidenced in this thread, there is a tendency to characterize God as vengeful and vindictive, seeking to inflict punishment at every opportunity. This started before Eden and was promulgated by Satan himself, which is why Adam and Eve hid from God after they disobeyed Him. They were afraid. Why? Because they misunderstood Him. When Christians today sin, many do the same thing as the pair in Eden. They hide from God for a while until they feel His anger has calmed down a little. They may feel they cannot read the Bible. Or pray. Or go to church. They hold back until such time as their "sense of self righteousness" has grown back somewhat, then they feel more "worthy" to do things things such as pray and read the Bible etc. Why? Because they misunderstand Who God is. They don't believe He is willing to forgive. So they must approach Him on a basis of "being better". Salvation by works.
Even Abraham, coming out of a pagan heritage as he did, needed to be disabused on this mindset. Thinking as pagans do, that it was God's will (all the while harboring the weird idea that maybe it wasn't) Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son to appease God. God turned this on its head and said, "hold on mate, I'm going to provide the sacrifice". The entire OT was to tell that story. The entire sanctuary service was to inform Israel of the gospel...that God Himself was going to provide Himself, a sacrifice as an atonement for sin. But Israel for the most part didn't get it. Evidenced by their blind hatred for the sacrifice at Calvary.
So not only in pagan nations, but even in Israel itself, God was seen as demanding and capricious. Despite the many prophets declaring otherwise, pride and the desire to do for themselves what only God could do, demanded more blood...more killing...until God was sick to death of the whole charade. Rather than encouraging Israel to repentance and holiness, the constant rivers of blood became a "get out of jail free card". So long as they had animals grazing in the back paddock, they thought they could do whatever they liked with impunity.
Jesus came to set the record straight.
Hebrews 1:1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Jesus came to reveal God's true character. Rather than a God demanding blood and sacrifice, Jesus revealed a God Who detested sin, because sin inevitably brings about the death of the sinner.
Jer 27:13 Why will ye die, thou and thy people, by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence, as the LORD hath spoken against the nation that will not serve the king of Babylon?
Eze 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Eze 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Are we Christians truly aware that the fruit of the Spirit we are so keen to discuss and to claim as our own, are the evidential experience of the Christian having God within? These fruit, love, joy, peace, longsuffering, etc are not characteristics typical of mankind, but are the charcteristics of the true and eternal God, charcteristics God would have us experience and reveal to the world saying, this is who I am because this is Who God is.

 

[Rita]

Hi Rita!

I agree, and what I was saying in Post #34 I believe explains why. Tell me what you think of what I said there.

I wrote in my notes yesterday , next to OT verses NT , old nature verses new nature, which could be translated carnal verses spiritual. Could perhaps say earthly verses kingdom as well. However it’s not non Christian verses Christian.
I keep having an image of standing way above and viewing the bible as a whole but from a prospective of seeing the bigger picture of what it is conveying. I am still mulling it over. Guess a question is arising ‘ what kind of Christian are we ‘ ?
Rita x

 

[Cooper]

Well no, my sister. It sounds like Paul might be talking about offering up children to Molech or worshipping Baal or something, like they did in Old Testament times, but when you look at the context of the surrounding Chapters, he is actually talking about eating foods dedicated to pagan idols.

He starts Chapter 8 with the following:

1 Now concerning things offered to idols: We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies... 4 Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one. 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live... 9 But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a [c]stumbling block to those who are weak. 10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols? 11 And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? 12 But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.

Then in Chapter 9 he turns to saying how he becomes all things to all men in order to win as many as possible to Christ, i.e. by what he eats or does not eat, according to Jewish law:

20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some... 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Then starts Chapter 10, where he brings up the idolatries of Israel, and then relates it to the idolatries of eating meats sacrificed to pagan idols in front of Christian Jews:

7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play... 13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. 14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry. 15 I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say. 16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? 17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread. 18 Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? 19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? 20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. 21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table and of the table of devils.

See how it all comes together? The idolatry he is referring to in v.14 is in reference to Christians fleeing the idolatry of eating meats sacrificed to idols. This is why he then switches in v.16 to discussing them partaking of the Lord's cup together instead, and then back to eating idol sacrifices again in v.19-21.

What you describe is paganism. Even now they are breeding sheep for sacrifice. Then you ask if their god is my God! Come on.
.

 

[Cooper]

How God treated and/or judged people, OT and NT, is expressed here in the words of Jesus:

"And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:47-48

If a person is given Moses, Aaron and the written laws what he does with what he has been given is the basis for God's judgement.

If a person is given a written Bible and is filled with the baptism of the Holy Ghost what he does with what he has been given is the basis for God's judgement.

What else is everyone given by God? A certain amount of time [length of natural life]; a certain good or poor general physical health; a certain kind of parents [rich, poor, educated, God fearing, atheists, etc.]; birth into a certain kind of society; and so forth.

Only God is capable of fairly judging any person because only God knows exactly what He has provided each and every person and what each and every person has done with what was provided.

The Good Shepherd knows his own. His own sheep are not the ones who crucified Him, killed his prophets and the disciples.
The ones who did that, have their own national God, known as the god of the Jews who they call YHWH.

 

[Cooper]

Jesus is the Word and the Word is God.
Those who deny the divinity of Jesus, and His equality with the Father, need to examine themselves because that is the definition of a Christian.
.

 

[JesusLovesYou]

Maybe the reason for the two God's query is because God the Father depicted in the OT is quite different than how he portrays himself and his teachings in the New.
Exodus 21:22 “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."

Matthew 5:38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Nowhere in the Bible do we see that one should not obey authorities. On the contrary, Jesus said at one point: “Give to Cesar what is Cesar’s and to God what is God’s”. In the context of the question posed, we are called both in the Old Testament and New Testament to obey God’s law. The problem even today with the law is that people are taught the letter of the law without being taught the spirit of the law. In other words, if the law says “Do not commit adultery”, you should not have any problem understanding what it says, unless there is a language barrier. It is a very simple sentence. However, the implications go beyond the third party. No one would commit adultery if things would go well in their own marriage. To prevent adultery, one would have to focus on showing love to the other spouse through visible acts of love.

Also, from the passage above, we could say “one thing leads to another. ( And one thing I like about the law in the Old Testament is that it makes the difference between accidental occurrences and intentional ones.) If the fight would have not occurred, there would have been no injuries to start with. Long story short, it all comes down to what the law means to people. Jesus came to show us what the law means to God ne how people should apply it.

 

[Cooper]

Maybe the reason for the two God's query is because God the Father depicted in the OT is quite different than how he portrays himself and his teachings in the New.
Exodus 21:22 “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."

Matthew 5:38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

See here regarding the Law of MOSES i.e. Jewish Law.
Do Christians have to obey the Old Testament law? | GotQuestions.org
.

 

[charity]

Ah! Here is the classic argument!

Now, my response to this is that He never changed but was speaking to two different classes of people. That you might say is supposition, but in light of the rest of Christ's teachings, it becomes clear that He was speaking to carnal Israel in the Old Testament and spiritual Israel in the New. This is evident in that His promises to natural Israel regarded an earthly inheritance (Deuteronomy 28), whereas His promises to spiritual Israel regarded a Heavenly one (Matthew 5:11-12, Matthew 6:19-21).

What would you say to that argument?

Hello @Hidden In Him,

With respect to you, I do not believe this to be true. God is reaching out His arms in grace and love now, in sending His Son the Lord Jesus Christ as the Saviour of the world, He sent Him not to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved, from the power of the grave and the wrath to come.

Malachi ends with the warning by God of coming judgment, and of the coming of the messenger who would prepare the way of the One Who was to come. He came. He came to His own, but His own received Him not, but to as many as received Him gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them who believed on His Name. His death and resurrection followed, and a time of opportunity was given for Israel to repent, and take up their role of Kings and Priest unto God to the nations (Acts). This they did not do, so salvation was sent to the Gentiles (Acts 28:28) for they would hear it. The book of Revelation takes up the prophecy of The Coming One who will come (again) this time as Judge, and of the repentance and redemption of Israel as a nation, and of their divinely appointed role which will then take place among the nations.

So this interval is one of pure grace, the arms of God are open in reconciliation and love to all who will come to Him for salvation, through the Lord Jesus Christ His only begotten Son, the Saviour He has provided.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Taken]

Your Thoughts: Are The NT/OT Gods "Different"?
OP^

Different Gods? No
Different "METHODS" of Teaching? Yes
Difference of "knowledge" of People? Yes

Approx 4,000 years of First Earthly men-
(OT) Beginning without history, past experience to be advantaged, learning Bit by Bit;
About God, Themselves, Animals, The Earth, The Atmosphere.

Jesus' Arrival after 4,000 years...Approx 2,000 years ago. Began Teaching men with a 4,000 year History... with Increased "knowledge", Bit by Bit, in a Specific Order, but on a "Quicker" scale, while "Revealing", "knowledge AND Understanding", that was not was not previously Understood, by OT men. (Not only OT Hebrew men, favored by God... but ALL men, Hebrew/Tribal men and Gentile men).

That ^ is the Difference IN "Teaching Methods";
OF the ONE SAME;
Heavenly Lord God Almighty;
Creator and Maker of ALL Things.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

See here regarding the Law of MOSES i.e. Jewish Law.
Do Christians have to obey the Old Testament law? | GotQuestions.org
.

Inanutshell -
•God gave:
His Law Commandments- His Law- His Own Written Law- BY Him in Stone.

•God Directed and Guided Men in Establishing LAWS- Written BY Men- Taught to the People as the Basis for Determing A Righteous Act or an UNRighteous Act. And the Consequences for Either Act.

•A Law.....WRITTEN....is called A STATUTE.

Meaning....the 10 Commenments God Wrote;
Were a LAW and a STATUTE.
Meaning...Laws men wrote;
Were a LAW and a STATUTE.

•A LAW....NOT WRITTEN...is simply called;
"a COMMON LAW".
Such "Common Laws"...are typically established, by men via customs and traditions of people who co-habitat.
•A sort of: self-governance of what people agree is suitable for their "groups" that co-habitat.

•God also Established: what is called PRECEPTS.
Precepts ARE "BEHAVIORS" amongst and between men.
God gave man "guidelines", for the Best possible outcome, for Behaviors Between (cohabitating men... and where, self-governance of co-habitators, via customs and traditions, comes into the picture "among men"....
And Gods Precepts, is also the guide, for "between men"....which is literally, between one "group of cohabitators AND a different group of cohabitators"...
What we might today call...
Domestic...And....Foreign.
Two groups with Different, Allegiences, Customs, Traditions....face to face for "any particular reason".

That is ONE of America's "overwhelming Dilemmas TODAY."
(The current and sporadic Government of the US...some knowing and acting According to Gods Guidelines and Some Not.)

Deut 9:
[10] And the LORD delivered unto me two tables of stone written with the finger of God; and on them was written according to all the words, which the LORD spake with you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly.

Neh 9:
[14] And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:

Taken

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I agree for the most part, although with "showing the different characters of the same God" I pause... I think He suddenly began showing a different side of His plan where the Gentiles were concerned, and a different side of His plan where sacrifices were concerned. Different characters in the midst of those thing? Not so much for me. But maybe you are referring to something else, and if so please feel free to explain.

Sorry about not tagging you for this one, btw, and I appreciate your contributions.

No tag- no problem.

Remember Israel is a covenanted nation belonging to god for all time. The church is a non nation nation that belongs to jesus! In the Millenial Kingdom Israel will have a sacrificial system again in the temple and the gentile nations will come once a year with an offering to jerusalem or face no rain for the year!.

 

[amigo de christo]

Question: What is your response whenever someone says that the Old Testament and New Testament Gods were clearly two different Deities, based for example on how strictly they enforced laws on sins like adultery.

In the Old Testament, the command was placed into Jewish law that anyone caught in adultery should be stoned to death. Yet in the New Testament, a woman actually was caught in adultery, and Jesus did not encourage the Jews to enforce that law as given by God (passage provided below).

Was Jesus, the God of the New Testament, different in His handling of this situation than the God of the Old Testament? Or were the two entirely consistent in how they dealt with it?

God bless, and thanks to any and all who respond.
@marks, @WaterSong, @Mayflower, @2nd Timothy Group, @charity, @Behold.

1 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. 3 Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, 4 they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?” 6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.

7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” 8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”

11 She said, “No one, Lord.”

And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.” (John 8:1-11)

Cause JESUS came to show us how to live . Try and remember . Pray hard and pray feverent and see the simplicity
of what is typed next .
DID JESUS ever once say , THE LAW IS BAD , NO its WRONG TO STONE HER . DONT YOU DO IT .
NOPE . THE law is holy just , beautiful , wonderful , i mean GOD GAVE IT ............Right .
SO lets examine what is really going on Here .
JESUS did not tell them , contrary to the law , DONT STONE HER .
WHAT HE DID was simply SHOW US , WHO THE ONLY RIGHTEOUS JUDGE IS . THE ONLY RIGHTEOUS JUDGE
who will judge by His every WORD.
AKA , He came to show us , WE , mere things who all have sinned , are not worthy to deliver
to execute , to adminster the law against anyone . ONLY GOD IS . AND WOE HE WILL TOO .
But we have a way out of that sentence . HIS NAME IS JESUS . AND NO WAY , NO HOW IS HE ALL INCLUSIVE DUNG POOP like
most our sin loving churches are .
Folks have began to follow a love that loves man MORE THAN GOD . THAT LOVE will not save anyone
cause its an accepter of sins . YEAH . DEADLY . I have long ago shunned the false prophets . LONG AGO .
Let me die ten thousand of the worst deaths , LONG before i conform to the all inclusive trash false love pope led protestant infected
false love unity . I had rather die . peroid . Now i do hope that encourages us all .

 

[amigo de christo]

Let all who name the name of JESUS depart from iniquity . As paul once said too .
And let us rejoice in the glorious Lord . OH indeed let us rejoice in the LORD .

 

[Hidden In Him]

@Hidden
Love these kind of discussions. Thanks for the invi...oh, nah. Never mind . Here's my two cents worth anyway.

Consider yourself permanently invited. Lord willing, I'll be doing at least 250-300 of these things, so I hope you've got plenty in your piggy bank, LoL (assuming you do).

God, speaking through His Son on Sinai, revealed to Moses His name. Names in the OT tradition were a descriptor of character.
Exodus 34:5 ¶ And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.
6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
8 And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.

Excellent verses in relation to the question.

This started before Eden and was promulgated by Satan himself, which is why Adam and Eve hid from God after they disobeyed Him. They were afraid. Why? Because they misunderstood Him. When Christians today sin, many do the same thing as the pair in Eden. They hide from God for a while until they feel His anger has calmed down a little.

Hmmm... now while I can agree with your preface here in general, at least on principle, when it comes to Adam and Eve specifically, I think it was more than just Satan causing them guilt. He likely was amplifying it, but they knew they had sinned against God, and they had not yet come to the realization that He is a forgiver of sins, whereas the typical Christian knows He is. I think they understood they made a big boo, boo almost instantly.

They may feel they cannot read the Bible. Or pray. Or go to church. They hold back until such time as their "sense of self righteousness" has grown back somewhat, then they feel more "worthy" to do things things such as pray and read the Bible etc. Why? Because they misunderstand Who God is. They don't believe He is willing to forgive. So they must approach Him on a basis of "being better".

Agreed, and it's indeed a mistake. We should run to Him when we sin, not run from Him.

Even Abraham, coming out of a pagan heritage as he did, needed to be disabused on this mindset. Thinking as pagans do, that it was God's will (all the while harboring the weird idea that maybe it wasn't) Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son to appease God. God turned this on its head and said, "hold on mate, I'm going to provide the sacrifice". The entire OT was to tell that story. The entire sanctuary service was to inform Israel of the gospel...that God Himself was going to provide Himself, a sacrifice as an atonement for sin. But Israel for the most part didn't get it. Evidenced by their blind hatred for the sacrifice at Calvary.

Ok, going to have to pick another bone with you here. I think the Lord fully had in mind to head Abraham off before he made the sacrifice, but He did indeed tell Abraham to sacrifice his son. As you say, it was to serve as a reflection and foreshadowing of God offering His Own, but so far as Abraham knew, the command was real and he was taking it seriously. He was about to do exactly that, as the narrative clearly suggests.

So not only in pagan nations, but even in Israel itself, God was seen as demanding and capricious. Despite the many prophets declaring otherwise, pride and the desire to do for themselves what only God could do, demanded more blood...more killing...until God was sick to death of the whole charade. Rather than encouraging Israel to repentance and holiness, the constant rivers of blood became a "get out of jail free card". So long as they had animals grazing in the back paddock, they thought they could do whatever they liked with impunity.

Yes.

Jesus came to reveal God's true character. Rather than a God demanding blood and sacrifice, Jesus revealed a God Who detested sin, because sin inevitably brings about the death of the sinner.
Jer 27:13 Why will ye die, thou and thy people, by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence, as the LORD hath spoken against the nation that will not serve the king of Babylon?
Eze 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Eze 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Are we Christians truly aware that the fruit of the Spirit we are so keen to discuss and to claim as our own, are the evidential experience of the Christian having God within? These fruit, love, joy, peace, longsuffering, etc are not characteristics typical of mankind, but are the charcteristics of the true and eternal God, charcteristics God would have us experience and reveal to the world saying, this is who I am because this is Who God is.

Okay that ended very well, Lol. Absolutely. And if I understand your point, yes. It may well be that more people gravitate towards assuming the Old Testament God is "evil" because the same God is worshipped by so many who don't manifest the characteristics of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, etc. either.

I suppose my driving point is how to counter the argument that one is "merciful" and the other "unmerciful," and your opening passage goes a good ways towards dispelling that myth.

 

[WaterSong]

See here regarding the Law of MOSES i.e. Jewish Law.
Do Christians have to obey the Old Testament law? | GotQuestions.org
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"Got Questions", is aligned with Calvinism. Just an FYI.

 

[amigo de christo]

"Got Questions", is aligned with Calvinism. Just an FYI.

Thanks for that reminder . We want no part of that .