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Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
Please explain persevering in repentance and believing.
To continue.
In the figure of the Good Shepherd and His sheep, it is the Good Shepherd who keeps the sheep. It is not the sheep who keeps themselves. They naturally follow and listen to their Shepherd. They do not know any other voice but the voice of their Shepherd. And they continue in that, naturally.

Some may go astray, but the Good Shepherd, unlike the shepherds in the past, is ever able to find them and bring them back home with the rest of the flock. If the previous shepherds lost them, this time around, not one will be lost. For the Shepherd now is more than able to keep them, and cares for them more than any had.

Tong
R3011
 

Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
But you don’t consider yourself a mature Christian yet?
14The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. 15But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.​

Life's worries, riches, and pleasures are not choking out the word of God in my heart. I'm retaining the word of God and producing a crop in perseverance. So, according to the passage above, am I immature, or mature?
You are the one who can answer that. Besides you just said that you are maturing, which implies that you consider yourself not yet mature but on your way to being mature.

I now understand why you still believe that it is possible for you to reject Christ.

Tong
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Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
And what I’m saying is that, in the church, even in the early church in Corinth and Galatia, there are nominal Christians and true Christians. That it is not conclusive that those who are said to have fallen away are true Christians or includes true Christians.
It's very clear that he is talking to born again church members......

now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! Galatians 4:9-10
Gal.4:20 20 I would like to be present with you now and to change my tone; for I have doubts about you.

Paul does not certainly know the hearts of men.

Tong
R3013
 

Corlove13

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You must go to the word of God and there you listen what God have to say. I’ll share to you my thoughts here which I learned from my reading of God’s words in scriptures.

Salvation of any man is by grace. God saves him through faith in Him and in Jesus Christ whom He sent. Man have tried, even perhaps their best effort, to attain to everlasting life, by various ways and means, but to no avail. They ever failed and fall short. Why man fails is testified and told us in scriptures. There are many reasons why. But to sum those up, I’d say it’s pride and greed and selfishness.

Tong
R3009
Did God give us teachers and pastors?
Is this Fourm a place where you learn?
Why do you assume I do not read the Bible?
Can I read the Bible and other books by those who have wisdom? Or only the Bible?
And when you read the Bible what translation do you read Are they not translated by men?
 

Corlove13

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You must go to the word of God and there you listen what God have to say. I’ll share to you my thoughts here which I learned from my reading of God’s words in scriptures.

Salvation of any man is by grace. God saves him through faith in Him and in Jesus Christ whom He sent. Man have tried, even perhaps their best effort, to attain to everlasting life, by various ways and means, but to no avail. They ever failed and fall short. Why man fails is testified and told us in scriptures. There are many reasons why. But to sum those up, I’d say it’s pride and greed and selfishness.

Tong
R3009
How have men tried to attain everlasting life? Through "pride and greed"- you lost me here
And what is everlasting life mean to you?

Well I figure I will not touch on this right now, seeing there is much to be agreed upon when it comes to defining biblical terms....
But tks 4 your response
 
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Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
You must go to the word of God and there you listen what God have to say. I’ll share to you my thoughts here which I learned from my reading of God’s words in scriptures.

Salvation of any man is by grace. God saves him through faith in Him and in Jesus Christ whom He sent. Man have tried, even perhaps their best effort, to attain to everlasting life, by various ways and means, but to no avail. They ever failed and fall short. Why man fails is testified and told us in scriptures. There are many reasons why. But to sum those up, I’d say it’s pride and greed and selfishness.
Did God give us teachers and pastors?
Is this Fourm a place where you learn?
Why do you assume I do not read the Bible?
Can I read the Bible and other books by those who have wisdom? Or only the Bible?
And when you read the Bible what translation do you read Are they not translated by men?
<<<Did God give us teachers and pastors?>>>

Yes God gave prophets, teachers and pastors.

<<<Is this Fourm a place where you learn?>>>

The Holy Spirit may use this forum as a place where we can learn, though not without and separate from scriptures.

<<<Why do you assume I do not read the Bible?>>>

I don’t. Encouraging one to read scriptures does not mean that the one being encouraged does not read scriptures.

<<<Can I read the Bible and other books by those who have wisdom?>>>

Yes you can.

<<<Or only the Bible?>>>

You can read anything. But the Bible is a must read. It prevails over anything else written. Apostle Paul once preached to the Bereans. Scriptures says it was a noble thing that the Bereans examined what Paul preached to them, in scriptures, to see the truth of what is preached to them. That was apostle Paul preaching. More so then concerning the preaching of other men.

<<<And when you read the Bible what translation do you read Are they not translated by men?>>>

I read the NKJV, NIV, and other translations, and not without checking with the Greek and Hebrew texts, aided by Hebrew and Greek dictionaries and lexicons.

Yes they were translated by men. That is why I go to that which they translated and study them.

Tong
R3017
 

Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
You must go to the word of God and there you listen what God have to say. I’ll share to you my thoughts here which I learned from my reading of God’s words in scriptures.

Salvation of any man is by grace. God saves him through faith in Him and in Jesus Christ whom He sent. Man have tried, even perhaps their best effort, to attain to everlasting life, by various ways and means, but to no avail. They ever failed and fall short. Why man fails is testified and told us in scriptures. There are many reasons why. But to sum those up, I’d say it’s pride and greed and selfishness.
How have men tried to attain everlasting life? Through "pride and greed"- you lost here
And what is everlasting life mean to you?

Well I figure I will not touch on this right now, seeing there is much to be agreed upon when it comes to defining biblical terms....
But tks 4 your response
I did not say that men tried to attain everlasting life through pride and greed. But that, the many reasons why men failed in any attempt to attain eternal life, I would sum them up to be because of pride, greed and selfishness.

<<<And what is everlasting life mean to you?>>>
Well, to tell you a few things about it, for one it is life that is everlasting, wherein death has no power over. It is the life that is in Christ Jesus. It is having God in us. It is an existence wherein one knows, that is, have a experiential relationship with the true God, the Father, and the Son Jesus Christ and of the Holy Spirit.

Tong
R3018
 
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Ferris Bueller

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You are the one who can answer that. Besides you just said that you are maturing, which implies that you consider yourself not yet mature but on your way to being mature.

I now understand why you still believe that it is possible for you to reject Christ.

Tong
R3012
You should know by now that no one should answer a question like that in a Christian forum. It's a no-win either way you answer it. Most Christians are mean people. Everyone knows it.
 

Ferris Bueller

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Gal.4:20 20 I would like to be present with you now and to change my tone; for I have doubts about you.

Paul does not certainly know the hearts of men.

Tong
R3013
When the Holy Spirit inspires Paul to write that the Galatians are saved then you can know that they are saved people.
 

Corlove13

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<<<Did God give us teachers and pastors?>>>

Yes God gave prophets, teachers and pastors.

<<<Is this Fourm a place where you learn?>>>

The Holy Spirit may use this forum as a place where we can learn, though not without and separate from scriptures.

<<<Why do you assume I do not read the Bible?>>>

I don’t. Encouraging one to read scriptures does not mean that the one being encouraged does not read scriptures.

<<<Can I read the Bible and other books by those who have wisdom?>>>

Yes you can.

<<<Or only the Bible?>>>

You can read anything. But the Bible is a must read. It prevails over anything else written. Apostle Paul once preached to the Bereans. Scriptures says it was a noble thing that the Bereans examined what Paul preached to them, in scriptures, to see the truth of what is preached to them. That was apostle Paul preaching. More so then concerning the preaching of other men.

<<<And when you read the Bible what translation do you read Are they not translated by men?>>>

I read the NKJV, NIV, and other translations, and not without checking with the Greek and Hebrew texts, aided by Hebrew and Greek dictionaries and lexicons.

Yes they were translated by men. That is why I go to that which they translated and study them.

Tong
R3017
 

Ferris Bueller

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That is not quite what Hebrews 6:4-6 teaches.

Tong
R3014
If you don't un-rightly divide it from scripture you see that it does mean that. The Galatians and the Corinthians are proof that God doesn't instantly turn you over to your decision to leave the true gospel for another gospel.
 
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Corlove13

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I did not say that men tried to attain everlasting life through pride and greed. But that, the many reasons why men failed in any attempt to attain eternal life, I would sum them up to be because of pride, greed and selfishness.

<<<And what is everlasting life mean to you?>>>
Well, to tell you a few things about it, for one it is life that is everlasting, wherein death has no power over. It is the life that is in Christ Jesus. It is having God in us. It is an existence wherein one knows, that is, have a experiential relationship with the true God, the Father, and the Son Jesus Christ and of the Holy Spirit.

Tong
R3018
You must go to the word of God and there you listen what God have to say. I’ll share to you my thoughts here which I learned from my reading of God’s words in scriptures.

Salvation of any man is by grace. God saves him through faith in Him and in Jesus Christ whom He sent. Man have tried, even perhaps their best effort, to attain to everlasting life, by various ways and means, but to no avail. They ever failed and fall short. Why man fails is testified and told us in scriptures. There are many reasons why. But to sum those up, I’d say it’s pride and greed and selfishness.

Tong
R3009
Go back to your point: that the law does not save people meaning; keeping the Ten Commandments. And the reason you said that is because you said that it's by grace.

But I still begg to differ, and.if you would like you can continue to argue your point. I will listen.
Maybe you should start with defining grace from the Bible.
And then move to your argument
Can you read Greek?
 

Ferris Bueller

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Some commentary liar, has taught both justbyfaith and ferris bueller that "faith" saved them.
Only in the way Jesus meant that....

Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” Luke 7:50

Faith is just the conduit through which a person receives the efficacy of the blood.

...we have gained access by faith into this grace... Romans 5:2

...it is by grace you have been saved, through faith... Ephesians 2:8

If you close the conduit of faith through which the completed but ongoing efficacious ministry of Christ's blood is applied to you (Hebrews 7:25), you lose that efficacy.

As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—eternal life. 1 John 2:24-25
Oh, and by the way, I don't read commentaries.
 

Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
You are the one who can answer that. Besides you just said that you are maturing, which implies that you consider yourself not yet mature but on your way to being mature.

I now understand why you still believe that it is possible for you to reject Christ.
You should know by now that no one should answer a question like that in a Christian forum. It's a no-win either way you answer it. Most Christians are mean people. Everyone knows it.
Well, it is like that if this is all about winning or losing. But it is not for me. For me it is about an honest exchange between believers, concerning their views and what they believe, from their reading of scriptures, an honest and good intention reasoning between Christians, a sharing of their knowledge of the truth.

I asked because you said and I quote, “I believe that a Christian can mature to the point that there is no turning back for them.”. And you still think, if not believe, that it is still possible for you to reject Jesus Christ.

Please accept my sincere apology if I have offended you by asking that.

Tong
R3022
 

Corlove13

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<<<Did God give us teachers and pastors?>>>

Yes God gave prophets, teachers and pastors.

<<<Is this Fourm a place where you learn?>>>

The Holy Spirit may use this forum as a place where we can learn, though not without and separate from scriptures.

<<<Why do you assume I do not read the Bible?>>>

I don’t. Encouraging one to read scriptures does not mean that the one being encouraged does not read scriptures.

<<<Can I read the Bible and other books by those who have wisdom?>>>

Yes you can.

<<<Or only the Bible?>>>

You can read anything. But the Bible is a must read. It prevails over anything else written. Apostle Paul once preached to the Bereans. Scriptures says it was a noble thing that the Bereans examined what Paul preached to them, in scriptures, to see the truth of what is preached to them. That was apostle Paul preaching. More so then concerning the preaching of other men.

<<<And when you read the Bible what translation do you read Are they not translated by men?>>>

I read the NKJV, NIV, and other translations, and not without checking with the Greek and Hebrew texts, aided by Hebrew and Greek dictionaries and lexicons.

Yes they were translated by men. That is why I go to that which they translated and study them.

Tong
R3017
Well many books meant to interpret are interpreting words from the Bible. And, even though this Forum is not exactly a book...Some of what is written can be made In- to one. My point is you must be careful with your words because it came off offensive to me. As you are the only one who goes to the word.

Has the Greek been translated?
Even when you look up a word you will find that there are many definition for that one word that may fit. So one still has to interpret.
Will continue......
 

Ferris Bueller

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And you still think, if not believe, that it is still possible for you to reject Jesus Christ.

Please accept my sincere apology if I have offended you by asking that.
I can only tell you what I think about my own potential for not letting the word that saved me remain in me. But it is based on scripture.

And, no, you did not offend me. Thanks for the apology but it is not necessary. I'm not concerned about you using what I say against me. I'm concerned about other people using it against me in the future. And I mean that no matter which way I answer the question.
 

Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
Gal.4:20 20 I would like to be present with you now and to change my tone; for I have doubts about you.

Paul does not certainly know the hearts of men.
When the Holy Spirit inspires Paul to write that the Galatians are saved then you can know that they are saved people.
Very well, if that is what you want to believe.

Tong
R3023
 
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Corlove13

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I did not say that men tried to attain everlasting life through pride and greed. But that, the many reasons why men failed in any attempt to attain eternal life, I would sum them up to be because of pride, greed and selfishness.

<<<And what is everlasting life mean to you?>>>
Well, to tell you a few things about it, for one it is life that is everlasting, wherein death has no power over. It is the life that is in Christ Jesus. It is having God in us. It is an existence wherein one knows, that is, have a experiential relationship with the true God, the Father, and the Son Jesus Christ and of the Holy Spirit.

Tong
R3018
So if that is everlasting life, then what is eternal life?
 
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