Proof that Jesus is God

[NayborBear]

It's your word against Thomas and the NWT.

NWT John 20:28 Thomas said to him: “My Lord and my God!"

Was Thomas giving reverence to the flesh? Or to the Spirit within the flesh?
For I am certain Enoch, and Elijah would have done the same as Christ had done, and all of what we're going through these days would not be taking place. Right?
I know Elijah raised at least one person from the dead. Right?
But didn't nobody in his days go around worshiping him as God, or a son of God. Right?
Because the people of those days still gave and paid homage from whence Elijah was able to do the works that he did.

Even Paul raised one from the dead that fell out a window. People didn't go around worshiping Paul as God, or a son of God, Right?

The point I believe some of these posters in here are trying to make, or bring home, is that:
Yes! Jesus is the Son of God!
No! Jesus is not the Father!

The problem/s arise, however, when the love of the Son, and that which he was sent to do?
Becomes a "crutch", and an idol of EVER getting PAST "THE MILK!"
As in being confessed before the Father, but never coming UNTO the Father!
1 Corinthians 10:22
Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?
2 Thessalonians 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Which leads to this:
2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

IOW?
The God and Father of Jesus Christ?
Is NOT "chopped liver!" :)

 

[Wrangler]

I said in an earlier post in this thread (can't be bothered to search through 700 odd posts to find it) that the greatest evidence we have in scripture that Jesus is God, is that He is the Son of His Father.

We are all children of God. See 1 John 3:1. Like Jesus, we are God's adopted sons and daughters. This is why Jesus calls himself the Son of Man. Jesus is flesh, like us. God is Spirit. God raised Jesus from the dead. The Bible does not say Jesus raised himself from the dead. See the difference?

Every Epistle identifies God as solely the Father. Never is 'God the Son' expressed because the Apostles did not believe that. The Apostles and every Biblical writer were monotheist Jews.

He has fixed a day of accountability, when the whole world will be justly evaluated by a new, higher standard: not by a statue, but by a living man. God selected this man and made Him credible to all by raising Him from the dead.
Acts 17:31 (Voice)


32 We are here to bring you the good news of God’s promise to our ancestors, 33 which He has now fulfilled for our children by raising Jesus. Consider the promises fulfilled in Jesus. The psalmist says, “You are My Son; today I have become Your Father.”
Acts 13:32-33

 

[kcnalp]

I've answered this a dozen times. God does not change. God does not 'become' anything. He already is existing, the great I AM. His word became flesh just as my word now becomes written. It is not I who is written. Words are not beings.

So, you know you are being deliberately obtuse with this figurative prologue, pretending it is any different than the other Gospels introducing the reader to the ministry of Jesus - starting at the beginning of his ministry. This is not unlike a Tale of Two Cities. Or if one were to talk about the beginning of Trump's Presidency, they may talk about the escalator ride. That does not make Trump an escalator.

Again, let's review yesterday's devotional reading, also from the Gospel of John. We learn explicitly that Jesus is a man who heard from God, in his unitarian nature, and that the Father is God, in his unitarian nature. Can you acknowledge this verse and its significance in destroying any claim that Jesus is God or will you just ignore such verses and pretend only verses you like exist?


40 As it is, you are out to kill me, a man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Avraham did nothing like that! 41 You are doing the things your father does.” “We’re not illegitimate children!” they said to him. “We have only one Father — God!”
John 8:40-41 (CJB)

You don't even know Who God became in the flesh! It was Jesus!

John 1 The Word was God and became flesh!

 

[kcnalp]

Was Thomas giving reverence to the flesh? Or to the Spirit within the flesh?
For I am certain Enoch, and Elijah would have done the same as Christ had done, and all of what we're going through these days would not be taking place. Right?
I know Elijah raised at least one person from the dead. Right?
But didn't nobody in his days go around worshiping him as God, or a son of God. Right?
Because the people of those days still gave and paid homage from whence Elijah was able to do the works that he did.

Even Paul raised one from the dead that fell out a window. People didn't go around worshiping Paul as God, or a son of God, Right?

The point I believe some of these posters in here are trying to make, or bring home, is that:
Yes! Jesus is the Son of God!
No! Jesus is not the Father!

The problem/s arise, however, when the love of the Son, and that which he was sent to do?
Becomes a "crutch", and an idol of EVER getting PAST "THE MILK!"
As in being confessed before the Father, but never coming UNTO the Father!
1 Corinthians 10:22
Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?
2 Thessalonians 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Which leads to this:
2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

IOW?
The God and Father of Jesus Christ?
Is NOT "chopped liver!" :)

I guess you couldn't read the part where Thomas called Jesus "my God".

 

[Brakelite]

So is the Father imperfect in begetting a Son not after His likeness?

 

[Brakelite]

That the Son of God (the Word) is as much ‘God’ as is God the Father is not in question. As Paul wrote to the Colossians
“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily” Colossians 2:9 Other translations render this verse this way
“For it is in Christ that the fulness of God's nature dwells embodied, and in Him you are made complete.” Colossians 2:9 Weymouth New Testament
“For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form” Colossians 2:9 New International Version
“For in Him the entire fullness of God's nature dwells bodily” Colossians 2:9 Holman Christian Standard Bible
“For in him all the wealth of God's being has a living form” Colossians 2:9 The Bible in Basic English “For in him, bodily, lives the fullness of all that God is” Colossians 2:9 The Complete Jewish Bible
God was indwelling in Christ in reality meaning bodily (corporeal). There was no pretence involved. Christ is God in flesh. There are also other texts of Scripture which tell us that Christ is God essentially. These are such as Hebrews 1:8 which says “But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.” Hebrews 1:8
Here we can see God talking to the Son yet He (God) is calling Him (the Son) God. This is a citation from Psalm 45:6. Another text to consider is Philippians 2:6. This one says concerning Christ “Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:” Philippians 2:6
Apart from being told that in His pre-existence Christ was “equal with God”, we are also told that He was once “in the form of God”. As we reason this through, we need to remember that under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit the apostle Paul wrote
“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.” 1 Timothy 3:16

 

[stunnedbygrace]

God raised Jesus from the dead. The Bible does not say Jesus raised himself from the dead. See the difference?

Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."

 

[stunnedbygrace]

There were men who couldn’t accept it just like there are men today who can’t accept it.

The Jews answered Him, “We are not stoning You for a good work, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.”

 

[Cooper]

I've answered this a dozen times. God does not change. God does not 'become' anything. He already is existing, the great I AM. His word became flesh just as my word now becomes written. It is not I who is written. Words are not beings.

So, you know you are being deliberately obtuse with this figurative prologue, pretending it is any different than the other Gospels introducing the reader to the ministry of Jesus - starting at the beginning of his ministry. This is not unlike a Tale of Two Cities. Or if one were to talk about the beginning of Trump's Presidency, they may talk about the escalator ride. That does not make Trump an escalator.

Again, let's review yesterday's devotional reading, also from the Gospel of John. We learn explicitly that Jesus is a man who heard from God, in his unitarian nature, and that the Father is God, in his unitarian nature. Can you acknowledge this verse and its significance in destroying any claim that Jesus is God or will you just ignore such verses and pretend only verses you like exist?


40 As it is, you are out to kill me, a man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Avraham did nothing like that! 41 You are doing the things your father does.” “We’re not illegitimate children!” they said to him. “We have only one Father — God!”
John 8:40-41 (CJB)

There you have it. You said it yourself. God doors NOT change. What the people saw was Jesus, in whom dwelt the INVISIBLE God, in the form of man.

God IN Christ. See 2 Corinthians 5:19.
.

 

[Brakelite]

Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."

Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)” Galatians 1:1
Christ's spirit slept in the grave with His body. Christ was truly as dead as we would be without Christ. He declared to Mary,I have not yet seen My Father. The Father raised His Son to life, just as we will need the Son to raise us to life. Once risen however, the Son in His divinity had the power to raise His own temple... His body... To life.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yes, He emptied Himself, became a human, had to rely on God for everything. And yet He WAS God in bodily form. Hard for the human mind to comprehend. So it is not wrong to say God raised Him and it also was not wrong for Jesus to say, destroy this temple and I will raise it.

 

[keithr]

Heb 5 (WEB):
1) For every high priest, being taken from among men, is appointed for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins.
2) The high priest can deal gently with those who are ignorant and going astray, because he himself is also surrounded with weakness.
3) Because of this, he must offer sacrifices for sins for the people, as well as for himself.
4) Nobody takes this honor on himself, but he is called by God, just like Aaron was.
5) So also Christ didn’t glorify himself to be made a high priest, but it was he who said to him, “You are my Son. Today I have become your father.”
6) As he says also in another place, “You are a priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek.”
7) He, in the days of his flesh, having offered up prayers and petitions with strong crying and tears to him who was able to save him from death, and having been heard for his godly fear [reverence],
8) though he was a Son, yet learned obedience by the things which he suffered.
9) Having been made perfect, he became to all of those who obey him the author of eternal salvation,
10) named by God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek.

So, God said to Jesus, "You are my son", and made Jesus a high priest after the order of Melchizedek (i.e. not an inherited priesthood like the Aaronic/Levitical priesthood, but being made a priest directly by God). A priest offers sacrifices to God for the people, and so clearly can't be God. Jesus had a great reverence for God. Even though he was God's son, in great anguish he obeyed God and sacrificed his life - by which "he learned obedience", yet God does not need to learn anything, for he knows everything. Jesus has been made perfect by God, when God resurrected him to life, and gave him the immortal divine nature.

This is one of many passages that clearly show that Jesus was not God, and that he was God's son, who was mortal and died, who God then raised to life again and gave him all authority on earth and in heaven, and allowed him to sit at His right hand. Yet more evidence that Jesus is not God.

"But I would have you know that ... the head of Christ is God" (1 Corinthians 11:3).

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."

Do you know the difference between someone saying what they will do from someone else actually doing it?

 

[Cooper]

Jesus repeated it for emphasis.
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. (John 14:10-11 KJV)

God is ONE in Christ Jesus.
.

 

[Wrangler]

What the people saw was Jesus, in whom dwelt the INVISIBLE God, in the form of man.

Exactly like us and God. See John John 17:22.

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus repeated it for emphasis.
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?

Meaning we are on the same page.

 

[Cooper]

Exactly like us and God. See John John 17:22.

Not like us at all. We did not preexist creation, neither did we create the heaven and the earth.

When you say "like us" you malign Almighty God.

I am disgusted and ashamed at the that some people say.
.

 

[Wrangler]

Not like us at all. We did not preexist creation

Neither did Jesus, who Scripture tells us over and over is a man.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Do you know the difference between someone saying what they will do from someone else actually doing it?

I certainly do! My mother tells people all the time not to worry about moving a big piece of furniture out of their house. She says, don’t worry, I can help you get it out. Then, because I have a truck and am able bodied, she tells me I must go move such and such out of someone’s house!

The mother says she will take care of it, the daughter actually does it.

 

[Wrangler]

When you say "like us" you malign almighty God.

Not at all. The good news is not that God was resurrected from the dead. The good news is that God raised a man from the dead and that is the inheritance of us all! Again, see Acts 17:31. What does this verse mean to you?