Proof that Jesus is God

[Mayflower]

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Oops sorry.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

"In the Beginning the Word was Begotten by the One who Always Existed which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

What translation is that? It’s not good. It fights with John, who says the Word existed with God in the beginning and that the Word WAS God.

I’ve never seen that translation anywhere.

 

[BroRando]

I’ve met many people with a down payment of the Spirit who think of God as 3 parts, but all one.

Oh, so the trinity is no longer three seperate persons??

 

[Wrangler]

Mmm...not sure what point you’re trying to make...

I think my signature makes my point very clearly. The trinity does not hold up to scrutiny even though Jesus is the Savior of the world.

Jesus is Lord

Jesus is a lord but not the LORD God almighty. There are many lords but only one LORD God almighty. The adopted son of God is described in Acts AFTER he was resurrected.

The LORD says to my lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet
Psalm 110:1

As it is written in the second Psalm: ‘You are my son; today I have become your father
Acts 13:33

 

[BroRando]

As it is written in the second Psalm: ‘You are my son; today I have become your father
Acts 13:33

Nice scriptural reasoning. "So, too, the Christ did not glorify himself by becoming a high priest, but was glorified by the One who said to him: “You are my son; today I have become your father.” (Hebrews 5:5)

Shhhhhhh. Don't tell any trinitarians...

 

[amadeus]

...the greatest evidence we have in scripture that Jesus is God, is that He is the Son of His Father.

Hi Backlit,

Just as food for thought or prayer... then if we are, or if we become sons of God would that be evidence that we have become gods or Gods?

What is Jesus praying for here?

"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." John 17:20-21

Is John 17 showing us Oneness or Duality or Trinitarian or Multiplicity?

And then...

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Oh, so the trinity is no longer three seperate persons??

I don’t have a problem with thinking of God as a trinity. But that translation makes it sound (to my ear) like God existed from the beginning but Jesus did not exist with God from the beginning.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I think my signature makes my point very clearly. The trinity does not hold up to scrutiny even though Jesus is the Savior of the world.



Jesus is a lord but not the LORD God almighty. There are many lords but only one LORD God almighty. The adopted son of God is described in Acts AFTER he was resurrected.

The LORD says to my lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet
Psalm 110:1

As it is written in the second Psalm: ‘You are my son; today I have become your father
Acts 13:33

okay, it’s enough. It pains me to hear someone say Jesus is not their Lord but is just one of many Lords, but you have to say what you believe.

 

[BroRando]

Yes, actually the trinity evolved from the doctrine which was deemed Hersey in the 4th century. That doctrine of Hersey is often referred as Modalism or Sabellianism. That was the teaching of three forms or three parts and these are God. Most trinitarians spin off the trinity doctrine because the Bible is absent of the three separate persons being God.

They then say God is three parts or God is in three forms. Of course none of these pagan doctrines name Jesus Christ in them. Do your own research and look for Jesus Christ. If you find a doctrine that gives Witness to Jesus Christ being the son of the living God (Matthew 16:16) let me know.

 

[BroRando]

okay, it’s enough. It pains me to hear someone say Jesus is not their Lord but is just one of many Lords, but you have to say what you believe.

Does the trinity doctrine claim "Jesus to be Lord" ? I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior.

2 Peter 1:11
In fact, in this way you will be richly granted entrance into the everlasting Kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 3:18
No, but go on growing in the undeserved kindness and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

2 Peter 2:20
Certainly if after escaping from the defilements of the world by an accurate knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they get involved again with these very things and are overcome, their final state has become worse for them than the first.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I think you will have to go on believing Jesus is not God and I will have to go on believing He is. You will not convince me I am not worshipping God when I worship Jesus. There are too many verses to the contrary. There are a lot of them. I think I am safe to worship Jesus as they worship Him in heaven in Revelation and I do not think God would allow them to do that if Jesus wasn’t God.

 

[ReChoired]

There is nothing anti-Christ about identifying properly the nature of my beloved Lord and Savior.

What flesh nature of mankind did Jesus take? Fallen sinful flesh or unfallen flesh?

 

[Wrangler]

What flesh nature of mankind did Jesus take? Fallen sinful flesh or unfallen flesh?

False Alternative. Jesus was a man. There is only one God of flesh nature.

 

[Wrangler]

okay, it’s enough. It pains me to hear someone say Jesus is not their Lord but is just one of many Lords, but you have to say what you believe.

I must have miscommunicated. There are many lords and Jesus is my lord. He is just not the LORD God almighty.

 

[Wrangler]

I think you will have to go on believing Jesus is not God and I will have to go on believing He is.

Not an answer to my question.

What is more important:
A. Following Jesus
B. Believing in the trinity

 

[ReChoired]

Neither did Jesus, who Scripture tells us over and over is a man.

Well, the Son did take upon himself the "form of a servant", though from eternity he was in "the form of God" (Philippians 2).

Who is the "Lord God" of Revelation 22?

Rev 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.​

Do you know what a chiasmus is? Or a parallelism? It's sealed by the Holy Ghost Himself, and cannot be altered. the "Lord Jesus" is the "Lord God" of Revelation 22, no that He is the Person/Being of the Father, but His own Person/Being, who "comes" on behalf of His Father. The Father remains in Heaven, hence the prayer, "Our Father which art in Heaven ..."; but it is Jesus, the "Lord God", who "comes" even quickly. He even testifies that He is the "I am", "the Alpha and Omega", "the beginning and the end", "the first and the last". John even identifies the One who will "come".

Jesus is also identified in Revelation 1, as the "I am", "Alpha and Omega", "the first and the last" (vs 11-20 (context)). The very koine Greek structure in Revelation 1 and 22 (independently), and Revelation 1 with 22 (together) are chiastic, or parallel in language and cannot be altered without notice.

You may see for yourself. The study is already done, see attachment.

You can also see that and download it here:

https://ia801904.us.archive.org/27/...Revelation compared, 7 Branch Candlestick.pdf

 

[ReChoired]

Neither did Jesus, who Scripture tells us over and over is a man.

The Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the Ending, King of Kings, Lord of Lords, the Author and Finisher

Isaiah 41:4 KJB - Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.

Isaiah 44:6 KJB - Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isaiah 48:12 KJB - Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.​

The “... First and the Last ...” is JEHOVAH - the LORD:

Revelation 1:17 KJB - And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

Compare:

“... Fear not ...” - Genesis 15:1, 21:17, 26:24, 46:3; Joshua 8:1; Isaiah 41:13... etc ... Matthew 14:27, 17:7, 28:10; Luke 8:50, 12:7, etc. KJB​

Revelation 1:18 KJB - I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Revelation 2:8 KJB - And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;​

“... Alpha and Omega, the first and the last ...”, even Jesus Christ:

Revelation 1:11 KJB - Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.​

See Context:

Revelation 1:12 KJB - And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

Revelation 1:13 KJB - And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.​

Side Note:

The NWT [the Watch Tower's, or Jehovah's Witness, New World Translation], because it follows the corrupt Alexandrian Greek texts, like Codex Aleph [Sinaiticus], B [Vaticanus] and A [Alexandrinus] (demonstrable upon request), etc, it leaves out the phrase as found in the preserved [Psalms 12:6-7 KJB] and unbreakable [John 10:35 KJB] word of God, the King James Bible, “... I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, ...”. However, it may be shown from the scripture itself that the phrase belongs, and was there from the beginning, because of the way the book of Revelation, yea the whole of the Bible [KJB], is written:

Rev. 1:8,11

“... Alpha and Omega ...”

Rev. 21:6, 22:13

“... Alpha and Omega ...”

Rev. 1:8

“... the beginning and the ending ...”

Rev. 21:6, 22:13

“... the beginning and the end ...”

A more complete table is seen in “[XX] Appendix 6 – Daniel & the Revelation compared”

Revelation 22:13 KJB - I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Revelation 22:16 KJB - I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.​

Side Note:

If seeking the 'translation' (the NWT is no such thing) from the NWT [the Watch Tower's Tract Society, or Jehovah's Witness, New World Translation] notice carefully where the quote marks [in both singles and doubles] actually begin and end in verses 12-16, and who is directly speaking [verse numbers are bracketed, bolded for emphasis, and quotation marks emphasized in bold red and key words]:

Revelation 22:12-16 NWT - [12] “ ' Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is. [13] I am the Al'pha and the O·me'ga, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. [14] Happy are those who wash their robes, that the authority [to go] to the trees of life may be theirs and that they may gain entrance into the city by its gates. [15] Outside are the dogs and those who practice spiritism and the fornicators and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone liking and carrying on a lie.'

[16] “ ' I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to YOU people of these things, for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright morning star. ' ”​

Who comes with the reward?

Isaiah 40:10 KJB - Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.

Matthew 16:27 KJB - For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Colossians 3:24 KJB - Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

Revelation 22:12 KJB - And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

1 Timothy 6:14 KJB - That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Timothy 6:15 KJB - Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

1 Timothy 6:16 KJB - Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Revelation 17:14 KJB - These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Revelation 19:11 KJB - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Revelation 19:12 KJB - His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

Revelation 19:13 KJB - And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Revelation 19:14 KJB - And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Revelation 19:15 KJB - And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 19:16 KJB - And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.​

Jesus is the “... author and finisher ...”:

Hebrews 12:2 KJB - Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.​

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Not an answer to my question.

correct. I was answering the other man there.

 

[BroRando]

What flesh nature of mankind did Jesus take? Fallen sinful flesh or unfallen flesh?

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus. (1 Timothy 2:5)

 

[Wrangler]

Well, the Son did take upon himself the "form of a servant", though from eternity he was in "the form of God" (Philippians 2).

Can you grasp that ‘taking the form of X, necessarily means one is not X?