new version of OSAS?

[Cooper]

Yes they believed, but not the kind that Jesus spelled out in John 8:31. Such believing is that which is from man and not that which comes from God. It’s like every person, even the non Christian, can believe that he can do this and that, but ceases in time. That is the kind of believing that one who profess to believe and later ceases.

Tong
R3371

They fell away. What did they fall away from? They fell away from the Lord.

Satan was a fallen angel, Satan was in the presence of God, but he turned away from God. If you say it cannot happen, and it did, then you show up OSAS for the foolishness it is.
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[Tong2020]

They hardened their hearts and went after other gods, rejecting the I AM, proving the error of OSAS. That is not us. Take care, my sister in Christ.
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Also @stunnedbygrace

And it seems, while you look at the story of the Israelites whom God had saved from slavery in Egypt and learn from that, you seem to forget to look at the contrast between them and the Christians, between the old and new covenants, between the shadow and the reality. I have on the other thread wrote about that.

Besides, concerning the Israel of God, Paul said, “it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel”, and also “all Israel will be saved”.

Tong
R3372

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
That’s right. Jesus defined believing as one that abides.

Some do not abiding there as that defines believing. Instead they read and take abiding there as something else, such as though it is something separate from believing.

Do we need to quote all the verses about falling away? If it's impossible, they would not be in there.

No need, if only to misuse them to make them appear to contradict what definition Jesus said of believing is in John 8:31.

Tong
R3373

 

[marks]

Individuals can backslide as well as nations. The Bible is very clear on that.
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If you look at what the Bible says concerning backsliding, it relates to Israel and their covenant of Law.

Much love!

 

[marks]

That is a misnomer. Do you have scripture for that ?

And if that were the real case why did God allow satan into his presence several times in heaven after he fell ?

Maybe read more context.

We're talking about the final result of salvation. The objection was that God doesn't allow evildoers in heaven. My response basically is that if you are counting evil works, all are evildoers. If that's how you are counting.

Much love!

 

[GRACE ambassador]

They fell away. What did they fall away from? They fell away from the Lord.

Satan was a fallen angel, Satan was in the presence of God, but he turned away from God. If you say it cannot happen, and it did, then you show up OSAS for the foolishness it is.
.

Precious friend, no one, repeat NO ONE has explained this "New doctrine
of Christ ONCE KNEW you, but, you are now lost, and, He NO LONGER
knows you, {and, IF you get saved again, He RE-knows you?}" which
Clearly And Plainly Contradicts!:

God's Word of Truth!:
(1) CHRIST Has ALWAYS "Known them that ARE HIS OWN"
(2 Timothy 2 : 19; Ephesians 1 : 4-6 KJB!)

(2) CHRIST Has NEVER "Known them that ARE NOT HIS OWN!"
(Matthew 7 : 21-23 KJB!)

More:
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's Eternal Assurance

Precious friend, Be Blessed!

 

[BarneyFife]

if you stop believing,were you ever really saved?

Assurance that provides the confidence that one can never be lost unless he only fooled himself into thinking he was saved in the first place isn't worth a nickel. This is simple psychology 101.

For the benefit of those who aren't necessarily paying attention, let me say that again with emphasis:

Assurance that provides the confidence that one can never be lost, unless he only fooled himself into thinking he was saved in the first place, isn't worth a nickel.

I don't get any assurance from that at all. Only anxiety.

 

[BarneyFife]

God gave us free will. It is the devil who bind us in chains. Those in the cults are already enslaved and the belief you are always saved because you once believed is a cult.
.

It seems to me that for many folks, a cult is the organized body of believers that doesn't believe the way the one speaking believes. I'm not sure the "cult" designation is very profitable in a discussion such as the ones we have here on CB, especially the ones involving topics that may interest a wide spectrum of participants. It mostly serves only to alienate and harden people.

 

[BarneyFife]

I am quite sure that we all have those moments. And when such times comes to me, I turn to the Lord and ask him to take the worries away from me after which I find myself comforted, even more ready to go home.

It doesn't work that way for all of us.

 

[Cooper]

If you look at what the Bible says concerning backsliding, it relates to Israel and their covenant of Law.

Much love!

Other believers are grafted into Israel.
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[BarneyFife]

It's one thing to have faith in Christ for salvation and yet another thing to have faith in God's activity in our lives.

The Bible makes no such distinction. We are to live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

 

[BarneyFife]

May God have mercy on the OSAS judges on Judgment Day!

Matthew 7:1-2 (NKJV)
1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.

Never mid the context of Matthew 7, right?

 

[BarneyFife]

Actually, where I currently am, unbelievable as it may sound, is that I recently came to see trust wasn’t enough and that I lacked love and that I was just like everyone else, full of resentments at the selfishnesses of others and muttering inside at how they kept treating me. Christian and non Christian, we are all the same in this lack of love. I knew this anger was murder but I couldn’t stop it. Oh my gosh how I tried to talk myself out of it all the time, but I was just like everyone else, only capable of loving how the world loves. Every morning I would wake and see the mess in the kitchen they all had left for me, not caring that they were being so piggish and sloppy and making so much work for me and so I would mutter and murder them all as I cleaned it up. So I told God, I see now that trust isn’t enough if I lack Your love. You will have to give me love or I will forever remain this way. I know You want to give me this love and I know You will because You are pleased to help poor women like me who see their great poverty of Spirit and ask for what they lack.

Soon after, He...did something to my passions. He seems to have knocked them out or put them to sleep. They no longer rule over me. It’s like...by silencing those enemies of mine, satan no longer can stir them up to harass me. I know it sounds so ridiculous that all we have to do is ask for what we lack, so why don’t we just ask for crying out loud, but...if a man doesn’t see he lacks something, he won’t ask for it, and I did not see I lacked love. I really didn’t. I thought my problem was the selfishness and lack of care of others and if they would just be kinder I would not HAVE a murdering problem.

Now that I see they can’t help it just like I couldn’t help it and that we all are so destitute and not understanding true love, I have such pity to see people now where I was, being tossed around by their passions and thinking it is everyone else who lacks love and not seeing they lack it too.

That’s where I am currently. At first I thought He hadn’t given me more love but had just calmed my passions, but I think I just couldn’t recognize more love at first as pity and forgiveness. But pity, compassion and forgiveness IS love. I just didn’t recognize it as love at first.

Now, He is...doing something with my will but I don’t understand it yet so I can’t talk about it with any understanding except to say...I seem to have no power of will right now. My will was motored by my passions and...there appears to now be nothing to motor my will now that my passions are silenced. It’s quite odd.

Hallelujah, Sister!!!

 

[kcnalp]

Never mid the context of Matthew 7, right?

The context doesn't change it whatsoever. In fact it confirms it!

 

[BarneyFife]

The context doesn't change it whatsoever. In fact it confirms it!

Of course

 

[marks]

Other believers are grafted into Israel.
.

New believers are grafted into Abraham, rather.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Also @stunnedbygrace

And it seems, while you loom at the story of the Israelites whom God had saved from slavery in Egypt and learn from that, you seem to forget to look at the contrast between them and the Christians, between the old and new covenants, between the shadow and the reality. I have on the other thread wrote about that.

Besides, concerning the Israel of God, Paul said, “it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel”, and also “all Israel will be saved”.

Tong
R3372

Im not seeing much of a contrast between us and them. I’m seeing that we make the same exact mistake as them about trusting. And we be the seed of Abraham starts to sound like we be the born again. If we can’t get out of the desert because we refuse to stop worrying over provision like they did, what’s the difference?
A better covenant yes, but still based on trust. By grace, THROUGH trust.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The Bible makes no such distinction. We are to live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

But, Paul does talk about growing in trust and Gods patience being meant to turn us away from disobedience of trust.

 

[marks]

But you can't just go off and become an athiest and go straight to heaven when you die, either. You can quit believing, but you have to choose to,

How exactly do you quit believing when you know God?

Might we likewise quit believing there is a sun in the sky?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Also @marks

I don’t think the parable of the sower’s point is on the salvation of people nor on the soil. Rather the point is on the seed.

Tong
R3353

Myself, I see the parable as to show 4 different responses to the Gospel.

Much love!