The First Resurrection

[robert derrick]

The scripture clearly teaches "Tribulation Saints" and "Non Tribulation Saints" or (The Rest Of The Dead) in Revelation 20:4-6 below, both will partake in the (First Resurrection) on the (Last Day) at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ

John 5:28-29 clearly teaches below, all that are in the graves shall hear his voice and shall come forth, this takes place on the (Last Day) at the second coming of Jesus Christ

Two resurrections are seen below (First) the resurrection to life (Second) the resurrection to damnation (Second Death), the righteous are blessed to be in the (First) resurrection as seen in Revelation 20:5-6

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Revelation 20:4-6KJV
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Very interesting, especially non-tribulation saints: the 'rest of the dead'. We know some of which shall have names written in book of Life.

So, two resurrections separate from one another but at same time? the righteous to life and the wicked to death, which is Daniel 12. That too me is the post-millennial resurrection that will include both righteous and wicked after the millennium which is after 1st resurrection of the saints only.

But you say the 2 resurrections are both after the millennium: 1 for righteous and 2 for wicked.

Tribulation and non tribulation saints include before, during, and after last tribulation: the world that now is, the world under last tribulation, and the world during millennium kingdom.

There will be a thousand year reign with Lord's return after the First resurrection and before the final (The Mesopotamian reign :cool:). You said otherwise but offered no refute of simple Scripture that there will be:
1.The beheaded witnesses in tribulation live and reign with Christ thousand years.
2. The Rest of dead live not again until after thousand years finished
3. Those with part in 1st resurrection reign with Him thousand years.

"This is the first resurrection." Those before thousand year reign.
"This is the second death." The rest of the dead to be judged after thousand years and not written in book of Life.

The First resurrection has two 'parts': those resurrected from dead in Christ, whether in tribulation or not, and those changed alive to immortality.

The last resurrection has two 'groups': the righteous unto life, and the wicked unto the 2nd death.

There are two resurrections of the dead, separated by thousand year reign of Christ. The First is the blessed and 'better' resurrection of all them in Christ, without need of judgment of the books. The last is of all the rest of the dead, with the power of the 2nd death hanging over them all, until some are found written in the book of Life.

 

[Truth7t7]

But you say the 2 resurrections are both after the millennium: 1 for righteous and 2 for wicked.
.

Your claim is "False" both resurrections take place at the second coming of Jesus Christ, immediately after the tribulation on the last day

The scripture clearly teaches "Tribulation Saints" and "Non Tribulation Saints" or (The Rest Of The Dead) in Revelation 20:4-6 below, both will partake in the (First Resurrection) on the (Last Day) at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ

John 5:28-29 clearly teaches below, all that are in the graves shall hear his voice and shall come forth, this takes place on the (Last Day) at the second coming of Jesus Christ

Two resurrections are seen below (First) the resurrection to life (Second) the resurrection to damnation (Second Death), the righteous are blessed to be in the (First) resurrection as seen in Revelation 20:5-6

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Revelation 20:4-6KJV
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[robert derrick]

Two factors are being left out of all this concerning 'tribulation':

1. There are two kinds of tribulation in the world:

The wrath of God upon wicked man, and the wrath of man upon the righteous. The tribulation of man's wrath works not righteousness (James 2) and yet purity in the faithful (Dan 12:10), and the tribulation of God's wrath works only anguish upon the unrepentant (Rom 2:9)

2. The Great tribulation in Revelation will be the Last and greatest tribulation period on earth, of which there have been many, but not seen truly world-wide since the days of giants before the flood and then that of Nimrod before the dividing of the earth.

Most of the tribulation in the world has been that of man's wrath against the righteous, beginning with that of Cain upon Abel, which is what the majority of Revelation is about. Not the tribulation and anguish of God's wrath upon the wicked, which is but for a short and little season.

The last great tribulation shown in Revelation is in two parts: beginning with the majority of it being man's persecution of the righteous, and ending in a short space God's upon the unrepentant.

Revelation is not a Book full of plagues from God for 7 full years, as is commonly pictured, but rather at least begins with 3 1/2 years of persecution from man upon the believers. Which is followed by a short space of God's plagues upon the inhabiters of the earth.

The First resurrection of 'tribulation and non-tribulation' saints occurs at the end of man's wrath and Jacob's trouble, and so before, in the midst of, or at the end of the short time of God's supernatural plagues upon the earth. And during this same short space, the kings of the earth driven by the dragon cast down to the earth, will gather themselves together in Armageddon, to literally try and make war with the Lamb descended from heaven, and those faithful with Him in the air...(Rev 17:14, 19:19)

And when the lightening strike offensive of the Lord and His saints takes place with clouds (Jude 15(Rev 1:7), there will be a ground war mop up operation of Jacob's revenge in Jerusalem.

 

[robert derrick]

Your claim is "False" both resurrections take place at the second coming of Jesus Christ, immediately after the tribulation on the last day

The scripture clearly teaches "Tribulation Saints" and "Non Tribulation Saints" or (The Rest Of The Dead) in Revelation 20:4-6 below, both will partake in the (First Resurrection) on the (Last Day) at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ

John 5:28-29 clearly teaches below, all that are in the graves shall hear his voice and shall come forth, this takes place on the (Last Day) at the second coming of Jesus Christ

Two resurrections are seen below (First) the resurrection to life (Second) the resurrection to damnation (Second Death), the righteous are blessed to be in the (First) resurrection as seen in Revelation 20:5-6

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Revelation 20:4-6KJV
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

You have simply restated yourself, so believe what you want.

The beheaded 'tribulation' saints have part in the First resurrection and reign with Christ a thousand years (Rev 20:4,6), and after the thousand years has expired, Satan will be loosed for the last battle with fire coming down from God to devour (Rev 20:7,9), and then the rest of the dead will live again to stand before God and be judged according to their works, some unto eternal life and others to eternal condemnation, which is the 2nd death...(Rev 20:12,15)

 

[robert derrick]

When Jesus Christ Is Revealed, Appears, Its Fire Time, Just Like Sodom and Gomorrah

(Destroyed Them All)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

True, in the same day when the saints are resurrected (the same hour actually), then the brightness of His coming destroys them all gathered at Armageddon, but not all the heaven and the earth dissolved, which will be after Satan is loosed after the thousand year reign on earth of the Lord.

 

[keithr]

"That identifies them with having lived during the great tribulation, so there are two groups of people being referred to."

Well, that is only if you believe the First Resurrection is before the final tribulation. I asked if you could prove by Scripture that there are indeed two separate groups here. You didn't. You just stated it as fact, because of what you already believe elsewhere.

Yes, that's right, I tried to prove it by showing that the first resurrection had already taken place, so the second group, that lived on earth after the resurrection had taken place, could not have had a part in it. The Book of Revelation describes events unfolding in the future, in roughly chronological order, and it starts off describing the church being resurrected and in heaven with Jesus, and that is the situation before the tribulation starts when Jesus opens the seven seals.

We've both agreed that the first resurrection takes place quickly, and is a one-off event, so if you're not resurrected in the first then you will instead have a part in the second resurrection. There are some people, of course, who carry on living after the first resurrection and rapture has taken place. If they die before the end of the Great Tribulation then they, like the majority of those that have died since the beginning of creation, will be resurrected (as humans on earth) at the beginning of the Millennial Age. The "second group" of Rev 20:4 is those described as having become believers after the first resurrection, and who lived during the Great Tribulation and were killed during that time because of their faith, so they can't possibly have had a part in the first resurrection. But they are rewarded with a resurrection to a spiritual nature, and living in heaven they will be servants of God (Rev 7:15, "they are before the throne of God, they serve him day and night in his temple").

The rest of mankind, those that survive the Great Tribulation and the rest of the dead of mankind who will be resurrected as humans again at the beginning of the Millennial Age, will be those that will live through the Millennial Age. This 1,000 years is the time of their restoration and trial for eternal life, culminating in their judgement at the end of the 1,000 years. These are who Jesus and the resurrected church reign over ("They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years").

John 5 (WEB):

25) “Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
​

i.e. Christians will be resurrected in the first resurrection and have already gained eternal life (as long as they remain overcomers until the end of their human lives). They don't go through the day of judgment.

28) Don’t marvel at this, for the hour comes, in which all that are in the tombs will hear his voice,
29) and will come out; those who have done good, to the resurrection of life; and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment.
​

i.e. the dead in Christ will partake in the first resurrection and will have eternal life; the rest of mankind will partake of the second resurrection and live through the 1,000 years of the day of judgment ("But don’t forget this one thing, beloved, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day" 2 Peter 3:8).

During the Millennial Age mankind will be helped back to human perfection, and at the end they will be tested and judged to determine whether or not they will be granted eternal life. Those that fail and are judged unworthy of eternal life will suffer a second (and eternal) death.

"they will be resurrected as mortal spirit beings" Unless you have independent Scriptural proof of such 'beings', then I can only conclude you have made them up to fit your teaching. (One thing: how are they spirit mortal beings yet have eternal life? They would need be immortal spirit beings, like angels, that were mortal men.)

Currently only God and Jesus have immortality. The only people who are promised an immortal nature are Christians who remain overcomers until their death/rapture:

1 John 3:2) Beloved, now we are children of God, and it is not yet revealed what we will be. But we know that when he is revealed, we will be like him; for we will see him just as he is.

1 Corinthians 15:52-53 (WEB):
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed.
For this perishable body must become imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Revelation 3:21) He who overcomes, I will give to him to sit down with me on my throne, as I also overcame, and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Being immortal means that it is not possible for you to die. Everyone outside of God's household (angels and humans) will be mortal (they could possibly die) but God will grant them eternal life - He will make sure that they don't die. Adam and Eve would have llived eternally if they had not sinned, and so will everyone who God grants eternal life. Satan will die at the end of the Millenial Age (he is a mortal spirit being) as well as all other spirit and human beings who are judged unworthy of eternal life.

--There is no Scripture for believers of Jesus not being members of His body.

During the Millennial Age Satan is locked away so he can't deceive mankind, and everyone shall learn the truth about Jesus and God. Everyone will be required to believe in Jesus and Yahweh if they are to be judged worthy of eternal life.

"Without faith it is impossible to be well pleasing to him, for he who comes to God must believe that he exists, and that he is a rewarder of those who seek him" (Hebrews 11:6).

"He who rejects me, and doesn’t receive my sayings, has one who judges him. The word that I spoke, the same will judge him in the last day" (John 12:48)​

 

[Truth7t7]

True, in the same day when the saints are resurrected (the same hour actually), then the brightness of His coming destroys them all gathered at Armageddon, but not all the heaven and the earth dissolved, which will be after Satan is loosed after the thousand year reign on earth of the Lord.

John 5:28-29 clearly teaches below, all that are in the graves shall hear his voice and shall come forth, this takes place on the (Last Day) at the second coming of Jesus Christ in final judgement

Two resurrections are seen below (First) the resurrection to life (Second) the resurrection to damnation, the righteous are blessed to be in the (First) resurrection as seen in Revelation 20:5-6

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[Truth7t7]

True, in the same day when the saints are resurrected (the same hour actually), then the brightness of His coming destroys them all gathered at Armageddon, but not all the heaven and the earth dissolved, which will be after Satan is loosed after the thousand year reign on earth of the Lord.

No pre-trib rapture, is seen in 1 Corinthians 15:52-54 as many believe and teach within dispensationalism, this is (The End)

(Then Cometh The End) As (Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory) View attachment 15180

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as many falsely claim

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:21-24 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[robert derrick]

Yes, that's right, I tried to prove it by showing that the first resurrection had already taken place, so the second group, that lived on earth after the resurrection had taken place, could not have had a part in it. The Book of Revelation describes events unfolding in the future, in roughly chronological order, and it starts off describing the church being resurrected and in heaven with Jesus, and that is the situation before the tribulation starts when Jesus opens the seven seals.

We've both agreed that the first resurrection takes place quickly, and is a one-off event, so if you're not resurrected in the first then you will instead have a part in the second resurrection. There are some people, of course, who carry on living after the first resurrection and rapture has taken place. If they die before the end of the Great Tribulation then they, like the majority of those that have died since the beginning of creation, will be resurrected (as humans on earth) at the beginning of the Millennial Age. The "second group" of Rev 20:4 is those described as having become believers after the first resurrection, and who lived during the Great Tribulation and were killed during that time because of their faith, so they can't possibly have had a part in the first resurrection. But they are rewarded with a resurrection to a spiritual nature, and living in heaven they will be servants of God (Rev 7:15, "they are before the throne of God, they serve him day and night in his temple").

The rest of mankind, those that survive the Great Tribulation and the rest of the dead of mankind who will be resurrected as humans again at the beginning of the Millennial Age, will be those that will live through the Millennial Age. This 1,000 years is the time of their restoration and trial for eternal life, culminating in their judgement at the end of the 1,000 years. These are who Jesus and the resurrected church reign over ("They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years").

John 5 (WEB):

25) “Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
​

i.e. Christians will be resurrected in the first resurrection and have already gained eternal life (as long as they remain overcomers until the end of their human lives). They don't go through the day of judgment.

28) Don’t marvel at this, for the hour comes, in which all that are in the tombs will hear his voice,
29) and will come out; those who have done good, to the resurrection of life; and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment.
​

i.e. the dead in Christ will partake in the first resurrection and will have eternal life; the rest of mankind will partake of the second resurrection and live through the 1,000 years of the day of judgment ("But don’t forget this one thing, beloved, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day" 2 Peter 3:8).

During the Millennial Age mankind will be helped back to human perfection, and at the end they will be tested and judged to determine whether or not they will be granted eternal life. Those that fail and are judged unworthy of eternal life will suffer a second (and eternal) death.


Currently only God and Jesus have immortality. The only people who are promised an immortal nature are Christians who remain overcomers until their death/rapture:

1 John 3:2) Beloved, now we are children of God, and it is not yet revealed what we will be. But we know that when he is revealed, we will be like him; for we will see him just as he is.

1 Corinthians 15:52-53 (WEB):
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed.
For this perishable body must become imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Revelation 3:21) He who overcomes, I will give to him to sit down with me on my throne, as I also overcame, and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Being immortal means that it is not possible for you to die. Everyone outside of God's household (angels and humans) will be mortal (they could possibly die) but God will grant them eternal life - He will make sure that they don't die. Adam and Eve would have llived eternally if they had not sinned, an so will everyone who God grants eternal life. Satan will die at the end of the Millenial Age (he is a mortal spirit being) as well as all other spirit and human beings who are judged unworthy of eternal life.


During the Millennial Age Satan is locked away so he can't deceive mankind, and everyone shall learn the truth about Jesus and God. Everyone will be required to believe in Jesus and Yahweh if they are to be judged worthy of eternal life.

"Without faith it is impossible to be well pleasing to him, for he who comes to God must believe that he exists, and that he is a rewarder of those who seek him" (Hebrews 11:6).

"He who rejects me, and doesn’t receive my sayings, has one who judges him. The word that I spoke, the same will judge him in the last day" (John 12:48)​

You keep introducing things I've never heard nor read, in order to continue in your teaching, but without responding to my counters to them in detail.

I'd particularly like a response about my objections to the 'mortal spirit beings', and the servants but not sons ideas.

Our one single agreement so far is one single 1st resurrection. "...so they can't possibly have had a part in the first resurrection."

Once again, I see no independent Scriptural proof that the First resurrection is before the last tribulation. This is only Scriptural 'theory' to me, not proof. Here again are a couple of my objections to what I have been taught:

1. The last tribulation is God turning once again for the final time to the Jews of the flesh only, after the Gospel 'age' ends and the 'Gentile' Church is resurrected out of the way.
--Firstly, the 'Gentile' church never existed. It is the church of Christ, where their is no more Gentile-Jew. Just souls.
--Secondly, a Gospel 'age' does not exist except in that it is age without end. It is the Gospel of the Lamb that continues to be preached, and all believers in Him that are washed in His blood are members of His body to be resurrected in like manner as the rest. Sons born again and servants of God. No Scripture suggests you can confess Jesus and even die for His name's sake, yet not be resurrected in His likeness. As though we could die for Christ, but not be dead in Christ.

Response please.

--Thirdly, the prophesied 'last chance' of the last days of the fleshly seed is come with Jesus' first coming. It came with Jesus as Messiah to confirm it (Rom 15:8), and He came to His own first who received it not and rejected Him first (John 1). And so His last days coming has been also for the 'Gentiles' and any fleshly Jew that repents. The Messiah came to fulfill the prophecies of the last days to the Jew first and also to the Gentile. He came to the Jew first, and then also the Gentile, and not 'then back to the Jew only'.

The last days began with the 1st coming of the Lord, and are still here, and will not end until the Lord's return, immediately following the last great persecution of His people, whether Jew or Greek, on earth.

Response please

 

[robert derrick]

John 5:28-29 clearly teaches below, all that are in the graves shall hear his voice and shall come forth, this takes place on the (Last Day) at the second coming of Jesus Christ in final judgement

Two resurrections are seen below (First) the resurrection to life (Second) the resurrection to damnation, the righteous are blessed to be in the (First) resurrection as seen in Revelation 20:5-6

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Ok, so we plainly disagree about the meaning of the same Scriptures. Impasse.

Let's try this: I believe Scripture teaches the First resurrection of all the church of history at His return and thousand year reign on earth, at the end of which will be the rest of the dead living again to be judged according to their works, whether to eternal life, or to condemnation forever.

You say the First resurrection is with the Lord's return at the last day with the Great White throne final judgement, and it is in '2 parts': the righteous and the wicked. Daniel 12 and John 5 speak of this final 'awakening and coming out' of the graves, living again to be judged...

You therefore reject a thousand year reign of Christ between His return and the final day of judgment.

How do you do so:

"I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

"But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

The dead in Christ live and reign with Christ a thousand years, having their blessed and holy part in the first resurrection, to become priests of God and Christ reigning for a thousand years...And the rest of the dead shall not live again, until the end of the thousand year reign of Christ and of His first resurrected priests.

Where is the verified thousand year reign of Christ and His resurrected saints, that will happen, if not before the final day of judgment when the rest of the dead shall live again to be judged? Or has it already happened? Are we in the thousand year reign of Christ, which is as one day?

 

[robert derrick]

No pre-trib rapture, is seen in 1 Corinthians 15:52-54 as many believe and teach within dispensationalism, this is (The End)

(Then Cometh The End) As (Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory) View attachment 15180

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as many falsely claim

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:21-24 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

If 'dispensationalism' teaches a 'pre-trib' rapture, then 'dispensationalism' is suspect altogether with me.

So, you believe a resurrecting of the dead in Christ first with the changing of the alive in Christ to instant immortality, and all together rise to meet with the Lord in the air, while the rest of the dead live again only to be judged according to their works? This is the First and only resurrection of all the dead at the last day and return of the Lord, which has 2 parts: either in Christ without final judgement, or without Christ with final judgment?

And so the dead in Christ have a 'better' resurrection (Heb 11:35) than the 'rest of the dead', who must endure judgment unto Life or unto damnation? I.e. With the lake of hell 2nd death hanging over them, like God's eternal sword of Damokles...

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Not only are natural Jews no longer God's 'chosen' people, but as far as the Lord is concerned they aren't even properly 'Jews' anymore, even as their Jews' religion is not God's anymore.

I loved all you rpost except this!

this is 100% wrong.

Romans 11:

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Also:

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


This is for all 12 tribves of Israel alone! Not one mention of gentiles here at all! and God say He will do it and it hasn't been done yet!

Also:

Ezekiel 20:33-38
King James Version

33 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.

36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.

37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

Notice this passage keeps sayinbg God will cause this to happen? It will happen.

Israel is the wife of Jehovah, the church is the espoused of Jesus. We marry Jesus in heaven as described in Rev. 19 right before He returns to rescur Israel from the antichrist at Petra.

 

[Truth7t7]

If 'dispensationalism' teaches a 'pre-trib' rapture, then 'dispensationalism' is suspect altogether with me.

So, you believe a resurrecting of the dead in Christ first with the changing of the alive in Christ to instant immortality, and all together rise to meet with the Lord in the air, while the rest of the dead live again only to be judged according to their works? This is the First and only resurrection of all the dead at the last day and return of the Lord, which has 2 parts: either in Christ without final judgement, or without Christ with final judgment?

And so the dead in Christ have a 'better' resurrection (Heb 11:35) than the 'rest of the dead', who must endure judgment unto Life or unto damnation? I.e. With the lake of hell 2nd death hanging over them, like God's eternal sword of Damokles...

Thanks for the response Robert, enjoy the civil conversation

Robert as has been shown, all that in the graves will come forth to the final judgement, the resurrection of life, the resurrection of damnation John 5:28-29

As scripture clearly teaches below in 1 Corinthinas 15:23-24 , when Jesus Christ returns then comes (The End)

Yes the resurrection seen below is the (Last Day) resurrection of the believer seen in John 6:39-40 (I Will Raise Him Up At The Last Day)

Robert you disregard (Then Cometh The End) as you desire to see a mortal Millennial Kingdom on earth, after the coming of Jesus Christ

(Then Cometh The End) As (Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as many falsely claim

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:21-24 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[Truth7t7]

Ok, so we plainly disagree about the meaning of the same Scriptures. Impasse.

Let's try this: I believe Scripture teaches the First resurrection of all the church of history at His return and thousand year reign on earth, at the end of which will be the rest of the dead living again to be judged according to their works, whether to eternal life, or to condemnation forever.

You say the First resurrection is with the Lord's return at the last day with the Great White throne final judgement, and it is in '2 parts': the righteous and the wicked. Daniel 12 and John 5 speak of this final 'awakening and coming out' of the graves, living again to be judged...

You therefore reject a thousand year reign of Christ between His return and the final day of judgment.

How do you do so:

"I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

"But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

The dead in Christ live and reign with Christ a thousand years, having their blessed and holy part in the first resurrection, to become priests of God and Christ reigning for a thousand years...And the rest of the dead shall not live again, until the end of the thousand year reign of Christ and of His first resurrected priests.

Where is the verified thousand year reign of Christ and His resurrected saints, that will happen, if not before the final day of judgment when the rest of the dead shall live again to be judged? Or has it already happened? Are we in the thousand year reign of Christ, which is as one day?

Robert, Jesus Appears, Reveals, Immediately After The Tribulation, As Matthew 24:29-30 Teaches Below, (They Shall See The Son Of Man)

The Lord "Appears" "Reveals" In Fire, The Earth And World Are Burned At His "Presence"

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[Truth7t7]

Ok, so we plainly disagree about the meaning of the same Scriptures. Impasse.

Let's try this: I believe Scripture teaches the First resurrection of all the church of history at His return and thousand year reign on earth, at the end of which will be the rest of the dead living again to be judged according to their works, whether to eternal life, or to condemnation forever.

You say the First resurrection is with the Lord's return at the last day with the Great White throne final judgement, and it is in '2 parts': the righteous and the wicked. Daniel 12 and John 5 speak of this final 'awakening and coming out' of the graves, living again to be judged...

You therefore reject a thousand year reign of Christ between His return and the final day of judgment.

How do you do so:

"I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

"But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

The dead in Christ live and reign with Christ a thousand years, having their blessed and holy part in the first resurrection, to become priests of God and Christ reigning for a thousand years...And the rest of the dead shall not live again, until the end of the thousand year reign of Christ and of His first resurrected priests.

Where is the verified thousand year reign of Christ and His resurrected saints, that will happen, if not before the final day of judgment when the rest of the dead shall live again to be judged? Or has it already happened? Are we in the thousand year reign of Christ, which is as one day?

Robert can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)?

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ?

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time?

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[robert derrick]

Robert can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)?

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ?

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time?

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Ok, ok, I get it. The thousand year reign of Christ is a spiritual teaching of being with the Lord one day, and at the end it is still as fresh and alive as day one. Being truly with the Lord, Who is the First and the Last, for even one whole day is in itself a life everlasting that never ends and never gets old.

"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as day one." (2 Peter 3)

I understand that, and completely agree on a spiritual and practical level. Afterall, who can truly claim being with the Lord without sin nor error nor confusion for one full and complete day of time?? However, that does not negate the fact of it being literally true as well. Much of the literal events of the Bible are also spiritual teachings, such as the dividing of the Red Sea for the children of Israel to walk across on dry land. Paul pointed out that such things were our school masters for our learning. But to then negate the literal fact of the Red Sea parting, just to make it 'spiritual' is depriving God of His glory and honor to be able to do both.

You can spiritualize the whole Bible for good teaching in the faith without doing away with the factual history and prophecy of it. Once you begin to do that, then you do away with everything written therein as literally true, such as the Law and commandments. They don't really mean anything physically. Oh no, they are just good 'spiritual' teachings, not actual codified law that God will one day judge everyone by.

And even with the spiritual teaching of the Lord's millennial reign with His resurrected priests, there is still physical space of time between the first resurrection and that of the 'rest of the dead'. There is at least one day between them, which in God's terms makes them completely separate. Afterall, one day is as a thousand years, right?

And so, whether by one day or by a thousand years, there is still a physical separation of time between the Lord's return at the First Resurrection of the blessed, and the following living again and judgment of the 'rest of the dead', which is the final day of God: there is at least a one day-long millennial reign of Christ and His firstly resurrected priests. His return is therefore not the last day.

The basic problem of making the day of the Lord's return the very same as the day of God's final judgement is that the Lord shall return to fight the battle at Armageddon from the air and end on the ground: And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance." (Zech 14:14)

This is the Lord's return with His saints, and is certainly not the last day where all the elements melt with fervent heat.

Likewise, after with the mop up operation in Jerusalem, the Lord Himself shall descend to the ground and "his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee, and the LORD shall be king over all the earth." (Zech 14)

Neither is this the last day wherein the heavens and the earth shall melt with fervent heat...And lest anyone think this is Lord standing upin the new earth with the New Jerusalem descended upon the great and high mountain: "and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south." The great and high mountain of the new earth will not be broken in two, when New Jerusalem descends upon it.

And finally, the prophesy of Job must be fulfilled that He will see His redeemer stand at the latter day upon the earth. (Job 19) This is not the new earth. The last days are here already, and the latter day is not the last day...The later day is the day of the Lord's return upon the earth, that will be as a thousand years (if you wish), and then the last day will be the dissolving of the old earth for judgment.

 

[robert derrick]

Robert, Jesus Appears, Reveals, Immediately After The Tribulation, As Matthew 24:29-30 Teaches Below, (They Shall See The Son Of Man)

The Lord "Appears" "Reveals" In Fire, The Earth And World Are Burned At His "Presence"

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

"This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ: (Behold, I Make All Things New)"

The problem with that of course is this: Even if the Lord's return were the last day and judgment, then that is when the dissolved old heaven and earth shall flee away and the judgment of the rest of the dead occurs. And so, unless you want to also spiritualize that time of judgment, then there will certainly be a space of time before the new heaven and the new earth are created.

The Lord's first resurrection is instantaneous, not the replacement of the old with the new...

 

[robert derrick]

Thanks for the response Robert, enjoy the civil conversation

Robert as has been shown, all that in the graves will come forth to the final judgement, the resurrection of life, the resurrection of damnation John 5:28-29

As scripture clearly teaches below in 1 Corinthinas 15:23-24 , when Jesus Christ returns then comes (The End)

Yes the resurrection seen below is the (Last Day) resurrection of the believer seen in John 6:39-40 (I Will Raise Him Up At The Last Day)

Robert you disregard (Then Cometh The End) as you desire to see a mortal Millennial Kingdom on earth, after the coming of Jesus Christ

(Then Cometh The End) As (Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as many falsely claim

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:21-24 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Just a little tweak: I don't 'desire' anything of my own will concerning doctrine. I believe anything of God's will plainly written in Scripture for doctrine of Christ.

"Then cometh the end"?

Sorry but that 'end' is after the first resurrection and reign of Christ on earth.

The context of 1 Cor 15 is of the resurrection of the dead. Now is Christ risen...And by Him came the resurrection of the dead, when all in Christ shall be made alive..."Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet."

Plain reading says First the Resurrection of all them in Christ, and then when He shall have delivered to God His kingdom on earth, after He has put down all rule upon the earth by His reign thereon...cometh the end when the last enemy shall be destroyed: death.

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." (Rev 20)

The First resurrection comes first, then comes His reign, whether for a day or a thousand years, when He will have delivered up the kingdom, because He will have put down all enemies under His feet on the earth: for this very purpose He must reign on earth...(And no, that reign in Person is not now, while the prince and power of the air remains there.)

To try and read the end coming with the destruction of death in the same day with the First resurrection is to leap over the period of His necessary reign, where Jesus must put down all enemies on earth, in order to deliver up His kingdom to God. Such a stretch and leap of reading is not according to what is plainly written, but rather is a desire to see it all end at that same time...(If I may return the compliment)

 

[Truth7t7]

"Then cometh the end"?

Sorry but that 'end' is after the first resurrection and reign of Christ on earth.

To try and read the end coming with the destruction of death in the same day with the First resurrection is to leap over the period of His necessary reign, where Jesus must put down all enemies on earth, in order to deliver up His kingdom to God. Such a stretch and leap of reading is not according to what is plainly written, but rather is a desire to see it all end at that same time...(If I may return the compliment)

We Will Respectfully Disagree

Robert you move to cancel the words (Then Cometh The End) with human reason, this being outside of scripture before your eyes

You put necessary reign in italics showing your pre-determined interest and desire

The scripture is very clear
1. Jesus Christ Comes
2. The Resurrection Takes Place
3. Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory
4. Then Cometh The End
5. In The Twinkling Off An Eye

Robert you disregard (Then Cometh The End) as you desire to see a mortal Millennial Kingdom on earth, after the coming of Jesus Christ

(Then Cometh The End)
(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)
(In The Twinkling Of An Eye)

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as many falsely claim

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:21-24 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[Ziggy]

I liken the first resurrection to being born again.
Baptism being the image of death and resurrection.
Once you are Christ's the judgement begins.
And your judged according to the fruit you bare, by works of love, charity, hospitality, etc.
The second resurrection would then be a literal life after death in eternity.
I think of life and death in spiritual terms rather than physical.
Those dead in Christ are those who have fallen away from God.
They return to God... a "revival"
And those who have always believed will not prevent those who are returning.

I'm not saying I don't believe in a literal resurrection,
I'm just saying, I believe the Spiritual has to occur first.
Just my thoughts.
Hugs