Freedom To Sin

[Michiah-Imla]

some who are called of God at a young age to serve as shepherds in the church, But this office should be held by elders according scripture. Elders who have walked the path of a saint and grown and matured Spiritually to the point these sorts of temptations cannot take root.

Yes, like the scripture says regarding qualifications of a Bishop:

"Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil." (1 Timothy 3:6)

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Half of verse one is frequently quoted, absent the qualifier

That’s because that part of the verse is missing from all Bibles translated out of the Alexandrian Text.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Do people NOT realize that NO ONE reads LONG POSTS??? LOL

Long posts promoting a false doctrine I don’t bother reading.

But @David H. had good stuff to read there and I read it all.

 

[Addy]

Long posts promoting a false doctrine I don’t bother reading.

But @David H. had good stuff to read there and I read it all.

Why am I not surprised to hear you say this... I have him on Ignore because he seems to like to argue... but... hey... to each their own.
Have a lovely day....

 

[marks]

I would love to know who, and how long ago, the phrase, "past, present and future" with regard to the forgiveness of sin started. 2 Peter 1:9 clearly says our past sins were forgiven.

I've never seen a scripture that claims that once born again, our present and future sins are already cleansed.

It started with John the Baptist, announcing Jesus' purpose in the world.

John 1:29 KJV
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Romans 5:10-11 KJV
10) For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11) And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the reconciliation.

The issue isn't about counting sins, and determining when they are committed. All our sins were future when Jesus removed them on the cross.

The issue is about who we are, and our separation from God. We have been reconciled.

How much will you limit this reconciliation?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I don't believe in presalvation rights. I think many covet the things of God and say they are saved. Salvation comes when we are judged according to our works, resurrected and drawn into heaven to be with God.

No one alive has any right to claim salvation, or to think they are saved, is that right? We will only know once we have died and are judged?

Much love!

 

[Addy]

FINALLY @marks WHERE have you been????????????? LOL

 

[marks]

2 Peter 1:9 clearly says our past sins were forgiven.

When you forget that your past sins have been forgiven, then you start to think and live as if you were under condemnation, or that you've become separated from God.

This incites the mind to want to make reparations, "make it right" with God, in other words, to "re-reconcile". But we are already reconciled in Christ, do you think you will become 'more reconciled' by some self-effort?

2 Peter 1:8-10 KJV
8) For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9) But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10) Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Much love!

 

[marks]

I Do not claim that,

You've made that claim over and over. A simple search of your posts will show that.

 

[marks]

In my opinion....It is IMPOSSIBLE to embrace the doctrine of "conditional salvation" and "eternal security" at the same time.

I agree, these are completely at odds with each other. And if salvation, having 'been received', is in fact conditional, then there is only one conclusion that follows. It's on you. Because Jesus will not fail. So if someone fails, it's you. So then you have to mind yourself so you do not fail and in failing, lose your salvation.

It's the Poison Pill, and its administered by those who want to glory in your flesh. If they can turn a faith/grace child of God into a legalist like themself, they can know the power of inflicting pain. That's another of those "mental drugs". You do it a lot, you get addicted. That's a sadist.

And some may want to paint a pretty coat over the top of it, but this is not Holy Spirit behavior, it's fleshy, demonic.

Take someone from trusting in Jesus, and His work, and get them to try to trust in their own work. That is from the devil.

GRACE is NOT free license to sin... it is NOT an excuse to be bad... it is NOT something that encourages dis-obedience and or luke-warm behaviour of any kind... nor is it something that promotes repetitive sinning. GRACE is the pure and precious action of forgiveness for our sins.

The fact is . . . God's grace frees us from the power of temptation. We are already freed from sin. In trusting in the power of Jesus, we can walk free from sin. It's when we think that we are required to play a part in our continued reconciliation to God, that's the legalist thinking. That we have to maintain our being reconciled to God. AS IF there were anything we could actually do!

And yet it infects our thinking, and suddenly we're living in the effort to "stay right with God", which is simply trusting in ourself, which means we are no longer relying on the Spirit. And in the flesh we will fail.

Some say we hold up Grace as some permission to sin. I say I hold onto grace as freedom from sin. I say if you deny grace you will end up fighting sin on your own. And the fruit of that will be evident.

Much love!

 

[marks]

And i agree with eternal security as a doctrine, but the problem is it is not something that can be taught as a doctrine but rather something that must be arrived at by experiencing the full assurance of the faith that comes from Spiritual growth.

So then you believe in eternal security, yet you preach conditional salvation, because you think the immature believers need to be taught a lie, so that they will try harder?

I wonder what you really do believe.

 

[Addy]

A breath of fresh air has entered this thread ... @marks

 

[marks]

For me... It has only been about one year... and actually more accurately in these last recent weeks... that I have been able to BASK in....the fact that I am TRULY LOVED by GOD... that I am CHERISHED by HIM.... THIS has changed EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING for me...

For me this was since I got so terribly sick in 2017. I would have died had it gone on much longer, and I'm still not fully recovered, I don't think I ever will be. But I learned about His Love! And basking in His Love is what I desire for every minute of every day! And when I realize I've forgotten His love, I just remind myself, He has forgiven me, and that door swings wide open! Light floods in, darkness is dispelled!

Much love!

 

[Addy]

So then you believe in eternal security, yet you preach conditional salvation, because you think the immature believers need to be taught a lie, so that they will try harder?

I wonder what you really do believe.

I have Mr. David on IGNORE... but I clearly remember this about my time with him at the other forums... He was what I would refer to as double minded.... It did not matter what one said.... he would somehow delight in twisting it.

 

[marks]

When He became my Father is when I knew I was secure in Him....I am a mother of 2 and I could never imagine not loving them.....no matter how many times they disobey or break the rules....i will always love them.
And if me, being human, can attain such a great depth of love for my children how much more can my heavenly Father love me...so much more that I can't comprehend it!

I just never had that familial example, it's been a long and difficult road. I don't know why. I feel like I'm just still beginning to learn what love really is.

Much love!

 

[Addy]

For me this was since I got so terribly sick in 2017. I would have died had it gone on much longer, and I'm still not fully recovered, I don't think I ever will be. But I learned about His Love! And basking in His Love is what I desire for every minute of every day! And when I realize I've forgotten His love, I just remind myself, He has forgiven me, and that door swings wide open! Light floods in, darkness is dispelled!

You just reminded me of this testimony.... Not sure if you know her.... Joni Eareckson Tada.... This lady knows the depth of suffering... She has learned that sorrow and suffering make wonderful teachers for a season... so many ignore and/or reject suffering... I think of refining gold. Suffering builds faith like nothing else can...

This is worth the few minutes... I think she will touch your heart and you will be able to resonate with her.

 

[marks]

I am filled with JOY like I cannot express.... I feel like a child... and I am running in the meadow... FREE as a BIRD.... It is so beautiful... but I cannot seem to find the words to articulate what has happened to me. I am in AWE of EVERYTHING about God... His LOVE... His GRACE... His MERCY... His LONG-SUFFERING... His POWER and His MIGHT.... It has left me speechless...

There's a song I just love,

"Run into wide open spaces . . . grace is . . . waiting for you, dance like the weight has been lifted . . . grace is . . . waiting,
Where the Spirit of Lord is there is freedom!"

Much love!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

If future sins were forgiven, then the New Testament would have stopped at Acts and all the parables about rejected servants would not exist.

Romans through Revelation would then contain superfluous material that don’t concern those whose future sins were forgiven.

But the truth is that:

1. The sinner is born again upon repenting and believing the gospel and being baptized without works of the law.

2. The newly converted saint is no longer a sinner and grows in the faith and does works of righteousness as evidence of true conversion.

3. If this saint does not endure to the end, he cannot start at step #1 again.

This is what is plainly taught in the scriptures.

 

[Addy]

For me this was since I got so terribly sick in 2017. I would have died had it gone on much longer, and I'm still not fully recovered, I don't think I ever will be. But I learned about His Love! And basking in His Love is what I desire for every minute of every day! And when I realize I've forgotten His love, I just remind myself, He has forgiven me, and that door swings wide open! Light floods in, darkness is dispelled!

YEP... KNOWING that HE loves me changed EVERYTHING.... absolutely EVERYTHING....

 

[marks]

@David H. I am absolutely fine with the fact that you and I do not see things in the same way.

What I am saying is that there are a large number of Christians whom I will NOT ALLOW to teach me about Christianity. I listed
the majority of them.

It is very simple. I do not desire to argue with you regarding this matter. God bless you also.

What you said was clear, and what he said was clearly mis-representative. What more need be said?

Much love!

 

[marks]

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins," (Hebrews 10:26)

At this point this persons’ heart becomes hardened and he will be incapable of repenting seeing that he is no longer the ignorant lost man he once was before as a new comer to the faith in ignorance of the word of God.

But who is it who has not sinned since being born again?

Much love!