Postmillenial Partial Preterism...What is it? A Victorious View of the Gospel.

[Heart2Soul]

I will bow out and just read..

 

[Iconoclast]

I am just a humble student, a seeker of truth and the hidden wisdom of God...
So forgive my ignorance but I do have understanding of some things....
I take the description in matthew literal.....there are 3 heavens....I believe it is referring to the 2nd heaven where Satan and his demons dwell...the stars shall fall from heaven and the powers of heaven shall be shaken refers to Satan and his demons being cast down once and for all from their dwelling place....the 2nd heaven... and weren't angels referred to as stars or heaven?
So the fallen angels fall.

All questions are good questions as we are all looking to edify and strengthen each other.
We are trying to have good interaction and interact with each view.
Earlier it was pointed out that the same language of the heavenly bodies was used for example in Isa.13,Isa 13:10;
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:

8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.

9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Isa 34:4.
4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.


with the historic destruction of those world powers.
You could examine if what you are thinking aligns with those passages, thanks for the view.

 

[Raccoon1010]

I believe in partial preterism. For instance I believe Babylon where the precious things are sold and ships standing afar off watching her burn was the Roman city of Pompeii. (Pompeii was destroyed because of the eruption of Mount Vesuvius on August 24, 79 CE. Just after midday on August 24, fragments of ash and other volcanic debris began pouring down on Pompeii, quickly covering the city to a depth of more than 9 feet (3 metres).)

Revelation 18:17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

And in the new testament Jesus foretells of some thing that will happen within their generation. People look past that and ignore the fact. But I just can't. I think he is being literal.

Luke 21:32 “Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.”

 

[Iconoclast]

I will bow out and just read..

There is much to consider here.
This thread is designed to provoke thought and prayerful study.
In a similar thread I posted this;
I have come up with 3 rules....
1] Jesus is coming again on the last Day

2]Born again believers win IN CHRIST.

3]We are to serve God with all our strength no matter which view of eschatology we hold .

Fact is, it is most likely we will individually depart this physical life and see our Lord face to face, before our end time calendar unfolds.
I will not be disappointed if my ideas were not 100% accurate, and one of the other views was more accurate. Nevertheless the study and contemplation of spiritual truths and communion with God is well worth the time.
Col.3
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

 

[Iconoclast]

I believe in partial preterism. For instance I believe Babylon where the precious things are sold and ships standing afar off watching her burn was the Roman city of Pompeii. (Pompeii was destroyed because of the eruption of Mount Vesuvius on August 24, 79 CE. Just after midday on August 24, fragments of ash and other volcanic debris began pouring down on Pompeii, quickly covering the city to a depth of more than 9 feet (3 metres).)

Revelation 18:17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

And in the new testament Jesus foretells of some thing that will happen within their generation. People look past that and ignore the fact. But I just can't. I think he is being literal.

Luke 21:32 “Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.”

Hello Devin,

The Covenant curses from Deut 28-33 came upon apostate Jerusalem.
i recall how i bristled at the suggestion that some of these symbols had literal fulfillments in the OT, and the same language was used right up until the book of Revelation.
I defended my views until i did not think I could defend them with a clear conscience before God.
Our Lord came to the earthly Holy City, The King came to Zion. They rejected Him. He accomplished redemption and ascended to the heavenly Zion and Jerusalem as the New and True Exodus
Hebrews 12;22-29 speaks volumes to this whole issue;
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

29 For our God is a consuming fire.

 

[Truth7t7]

Thanks for asking, I was hoping you would. Lets see if the bible says anything about that;

The question really is, is God coming, or coming in the clouds, always a literal physical coming, or does the bible itself speak of God coming in "judgment', not a literal physical return as the second Coming will be;
Here are some biblical examples
Deut33;2
And he said, The Lord came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.
isa31:4 For thus hath the Lord spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the Lord of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof.
isa64:3
64 Oh that thou wouldest rend the heavens, that thou wouldest come down, that the mountains might flow down at thy presence,

2 As when the melting fire burneth, the fire causeth the waters to boil, to make thy name known to thine adversaries, that the nations may tremble at thy presence!

3 When thou didst terrible things which we looked not for, thou camest down, the mountains flowed down at thy presence.

4 For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.
isa66:15
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
psalm18:9
9 He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet.

10 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind.

psalm144;
5 Bow thy heavens, O Lord, and come down: touch the mountains, and they shall smoke.

Micah;
3 For, behold, the Lord cometh forth out of his place, and will come down, and tread upon the high places of the earth.

4 And the mountains shall be molten under him, and the valleys shall be cleft, as wax before the fire, and as the waters that are poured down a steep place.


There are more examples, but you get the idea...they are bible verses, Did God literally come down, or come down in judgment?

The majority of your quotes actually support a literal return not a symbolic, thanks for your support of the literal return

However You forgot answering the very most important part, "Why"?

The scripture clearly states human eyes on earth will see Jesus Christ in the clouds?

How you going to symbolize these literal facts below to suit your preterist teachings, I'm enthusiastically waiting for this one, nail biter, cliff hanging suspense!!!!!

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Iconoclast]

The majority of your quotes actually support a literal return not a symbolic, thanks for your support of the literal return

However You forgot answering the very most important part, "Why"?

The scripture clearly states human eyes on earth will see Jesus Christ in the clouds?

How you going to symbolize these literal facts below to suit your preterist teachings, I'm enthusiastically waiting for this one, nail biter, cliff hanging suspense!!!!!

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The sign of the Son of Man..IN HEAVEN
The sign He was ruling IN HEAVEN,was the coming in the clouds of judgment upon apostate Jerusalem.
The language of coming in the clouds is consistent with the language from the OT.
It does not look as if you read over and looked at the verses offered on page 3.
You cannot learn if you do not look.

 

[Iconoclast]

I am just a humble student, a seeker of truth and the hidden wisdom of God...
So forgive my ignorance but I do have understanding of some things....
I take the description in matthew literal.....there are 3 heavens....I believe it is referring to the 2nd heaven where Satan and his demons dwell...the stars shall fall from heaven and the powers of heaven shall be shaken refers to Satan and his demons being cast down once and for all from their dwelling place....the 2nd heaven... and weren't angels referred to as stars or heaven?
So the fallen angels fall.

While I do not see satan and demonic forces directly in the Sun,moon, stars...I think you are correct to look for demonic activity, in rev.6-17.
The wicked soldiers and rulers destroying Jerusalem, like Nero. and committing the abomination that makes desolate, the temple destruction, follow that outline in Rev.12

 

[marks]

If we all look at the same verses , how do we differ?
Some try and explain away the other views by saying that Postmillenial , and Amillenial persons"spiritualize" the scriptures rather than taking them literal. This is a falsehood that will be exposed here and will begin to demonstrate another understanding of end times that is perhaps more biblical.
How so?

Either the sun is blackened or it's not. Either it happens in a literal visable way, or it means something other than that. I say it means that. Apparently you say it does not. On my side, that's what it says happens, in the same way I would say, the hot dog fell off the table.

Is the language meant to be understand that way? Or something more esoteric?

Let me ask you . . . do you consider the Revelation to be an example of Hebrew Apocalyptic writting?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Good questions and in a couple hours I will supply the answer

Did you ever get back to this?

marks said: ↑
What if it's not? What if it is? What would God say if He wanted to describe the exact scenario being described?

Much love!

Just a reminder . . . not to tell you what to do . . . post with all those fonts and colors and bold and big text I skim right past. Too hard on the eyes.

 

[marks]

Most premill men cringe when they hear of other positions.

Another empty statement designed to impugn the opposing view.

What nonsense!

I suppose you crawl into a corner when I tell you I have a different view?

 

[marks]

the Son of man coming

You don't see this at the coming of the Son of Man?

I do.

Much love!

 

[marks]

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days

What days??? the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem.
Jesus did not twist anything, nor do I, I just believe Jesus here.

The tribulation that ends right before Jesus comes. That tribulation. It's "end of age".

Much love!

 

[marks]

When you point out that sometimes God has used different forms of writing,

That's fully insufficient.

Of course Jesus spoke in parables, but not everything in the Bible is a parable. This is elementary.

We need to let the Bible tell us what is and is not parable. It will if we listen.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The ‘sun, moon and stars’ are symbolic of earthly dignitaries, great political authorities and great lights in the political or religious heavens.

We know this because in Genesis 37:8-10, Joseph had a dream, ..”And this time, the sun, the moon, and the eleven stars bowed down to me. So he told it to his father and his brothers; and his father rebuked him and said to him, “What is this dream that you have dreamed? Shall your mother and I and your brothers indeed come to bow down to the earth before you?” It was symbolic of the power structure.

Here are examples which are clearly not about the literal sun, moon and stars.

What would you say if I told you that at Joshua's request, God made the sun stand still in the sky for a day? Who was this? And where in the Bible will we find the meaning of when the "moon" becomes blood? Who is this, what is the meaning of becoming blood? Where in the Bible is this expained? Or is it a speculation/opinion?

In the Bible's first mention of the sun, it is a light in the sky. So unless the context shows something else intended, why should we not accept it that way?

Much love!

 

[Truth7t7]

The sign of the Son of Man..IN HEAVEN
The sign He was ruling IN HEAVEN,was the coming in the clouds of judgment upon apostate Jerusalem.
The language of coming in the clouds is consistent with the language from the OT.
It does not look as if you read over and looked at the verses offered on page 3.
You cannot learn if you do not look.

"Once Again" You disregard answering the very most important part, "Why"?

The scripture clearly states human eyes on earth will see Jesus Christ in the clouds?

How you going to symbolize these literal facts below to suit your preterist teachings, I'm enthusiastically waiting for this one, nail biter, cliff hanging suspense!!!!!

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[marks]

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:

The destruction of the temple is spoken of as the sign he is IN HEAVEN

and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Now 7t7, you might not like this view, but it is not twisted, it is more biblical than what you or the others have offered.

Scripture please. Where is this taught?

Do you realize that "the sign of the Son of Man in heaven", "in heaven" is Dative? Not Genetive?

This is not a sign that the Son of Man is in heaven. They see the sign of the Son of Man, and where they see this sign is in heaven - the sky.

Much love!

 

[marks]

“I will also water with thy blood the land wherein thou swimmest, even to the mountains; and the rivers shall be full of thee. And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light. All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord GOD.”

Again I find I must ask the question . . . one you've not addressed, for the several times I've asked you . . . why do you think these things didn't happen?

Could God not cover the sun with a cloud? Make the land dark? I somehow don't feel compelled to make this into anything other than what it says. God covers the heavens, makes dark all the lights of heaven, so the land is in darkness.

Do you think this couldn't happen? I think it could.

Much love!

 

[marks]

There are more examples, but you get the idea...they are bible verses, Did God literally come down, or come down in judgment?

Again . . . why reject both understandings? God comes in judgment. Is that so difficult? God walked in the garden with Adam in the cool of the day. God can "show up" places, and do things. Doesn't that seem to be the case?

Much love!

 

[marks]

The New Testament does not support this bold claim.
To say that all prophecies transpiring in the New Testament are fulfilled literally requires that one’s system already be in place. The interpretation of a passage is grounded in the expositor’s original presupposition. Literalism definitionally writes off all non-literal fulfillments.

We look at prophecies in the Bible, and ask ourselves, do they mean what they say in their plain sense? Or should we be looking for something deeper, hidden, esoteric, arcane?

So, how were prophecies fulfilled that have been fulfilled? Literally. What should we expect for those that remain?

It sounds to me that you needlessly write off literal fulfillments.

Much love!