The Singular Factor In Coming To God Through Christ.

[Truther]

Yes, believers receive a measure of the Holy Spirit in the new covenant, but are still not FILLED with the Holy Spirit at that time, there is a further infilling of the Holy Spirit, which happened on Pentecost, but thereafter newly saved believers had to have hands laid on them by a Spirit filled believer, to also be filled with the Holy Spirit:

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.


Next example:

Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

And, BTW, it still works that way today - a Christian is not FILLED with the HS until a Spirit filled believer lays hands on them.

One is baptized into Christ by water baptism in Jesus' name into his death.

The Holy Ghost raises the dead man from that point in his or her life.

Those that are calling themselves alive without dying are spirit zombies that must die(be killed by repentance) and buried deep in the watery tomb(baptism).

The Spirit does not cancel the death/burial part of our born again experience.

Only theologians practice this modern day "baptism cancel culture" by cancelling baptism.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

David Guzik:

A prophet . . . and more than a prophet: Jesus reminds the people that John is God’s chosen herald of the Messiah, not a man-pleaser or a self-pleaser. He was in fact more than a prophet, because he alone had the ministry of serving as the Messiah’s herald. For that, he is the greatest of prophets and the greatest of men (among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist).

b. He who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he: Though John was great, he was not born again under the New Covenant. This is because he lived and died before the completion of Jesus’ work at the cross and empty tomb. Therefore, he did not enjoy the benefits of the New Covenant (1Co 11:25, 2Co 3:6, Heb 8:6-13).

John Wesley:

But he that is least in the kingdom of heaven, is greater than he - Which an ancient author explains thus: - "One perfect in the law, as John was, is inferior to one who is baptized into the death of Christ. For this is the kingdom of heaven, even to be buried with Christ, and to be raised up together with him. John was greater than all who had been then born of women, but he was cut off before the kingdom of heaven was given."

He was blameless as to that righteousness which is by the law; but he fell short of those who are perfected by the spirit of life which is in Christ. Whosoever, therefore, is least in the kingdom of heaven, by Christian regeneration, is greater than any who has attained only the righteousness of the law, because the law maketh nothing perfect." It may farther mean, the least true Christian believer has a more perfect knowledge of Jesus Christ, of his redemption and kingdom, than John the Baptist had, who died before the full manifestation of the Gospel.

Compare the parts I emboldened above to this passage.↓↓↓

"Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to give him the name John. ...he will be great in the sight of the Lord. ...he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from his mother’s womb. Many of the sons of Israel he will turn back to the Lord their God. And he will go on before the Lord in the spirit and power of Elijah" Luke 1:13-17
​

This is a good example of why I do not read commentaries. I learn far more from the scriptures themselves and by talking about them with other believers who also read the scriptures for themselves.

It's interesting how you're viewing the kingdom of God as being something yet to come, and so you're comparing the greatness of John to the least of believers at a future time. But Jesus said the least in the kingdom of God IS (present tense) greater than John the Baptist. He was speaking in the present tense. The church has changed that to the future tense—that the least of believers in the future in the New Covenant will be greater than John the Baptist. I don't see anything in those passages to signify a future context of this greatness of the least in the kingdom of God over and above that of John the Baptist.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Only theologians practice this modern day "baptism cancel culture" by cancelling baptism.

I'm not aware of baptism being cancelled in this modern day.

 

[Truther]

Compare the parts I emboldened above to this passage.↓↓↓

"Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to give him the name John. ...he will be great in the sight of the Lord. ...he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from his mother’s womb. Many of the sons of Israel he will turn back to the Lord their God. And he will go on before the Lord in the spirit and power of Elijah" Luke 1:13-17
​

This is a good example of why I do not read commentaries. I learn far more from the scriptures themselves and by talking about them with other believers who also read the scriptures for themselves.

It's interesting how you're viewing the kingdom of God as being something yet to come, and so you're comparing the greatness of John to the least of believers at a future time. But Jesus said the least in the kingdom of God IS (present tense) greater than John the Baptist. He was speaking in the present tense. The church has changed that to the future tense—that the least of believers in the future in the New Covenant will be greater than John the Baptist. I don't see anything in those passages to signify a future context of this greatness of the least in the kingdom of God over and above that of John the Baptist.

If you are interested, I will explain to you how the covenant works. Most Christians have never thought of this. Let me know.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The Spirit does not cancel the death/burial part of our born again experience.

The Spirit is literally the very thing that crucifies the sinner. You are baptized into the body of Christ via the Holy Spirit. The water is just the outward ceremony attached to that. Commanded as it may be, water baptism in and of itself doesn't do anything toward restraining sensual indulgence in a crucified life. Ceremonies and rituals can't do that. Only the Spirit of God can do that in a person.

 

[Truther]

I will give you one hint… We are in Israel’s future covenant. In a partial way.

 

[Truther]

The Spirit is literally the very thing that crucifies the sinner. You are baptized into the body of Christ via the Holy Spirit. The water is just the outward ceremony attached to that. Commanded as it may be, water baptism in and of itself doesn't do anything toward restraining sensual indulgence in a crucified life. Ceremonies and rituals can't do that. Only the Spirit of God can do that in a person.

The Holy Ghost kills?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If you are interested, I will explain to you how the covenant works. Most Christians have never thought of this. Let me know.

I'm pretty sure I know how the (New) Covenant works, but if you have some insights I'm not aware of I'm all ears. Just keep it to a few sentences if you can, please.

 

[Truther]

FYI. Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The Holy Ghost kills?

Yes. The Spirit is what crucifies the desires of the flesh.

"...by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body..." Romans 8:13

 

[Truther]

I'm pretty sure I know how the (New) Covenant works, but if have some insights I'm not aware of I'm all ears. Just keep it to a few sentences if you can, please.

That’s my style.
Okay, I can prove that we are not in our own covenant with God but we are included in a future covenant with national Israel.
Jer 31 is not about us, but we have been admitted into it in a partial way.

Notice only some are healed today? Only some are saved today?
That is because the covenant is in official effect at the coming of Christ to National Israel.
We just get a peek at it now

 

[Truther]

Yes. The Spirit is what crucifies the desires of the flesh.

"...by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body..." Romans 8:13

Rather, the Spirit leads us to water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins

 

[Ferris Bueller]

FYI. Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

The law inflames and arouses the deeds of the flesh (in an unsaved person) and as a result that person will die spiritually. The Spirit, on the other hand, puts the deeds of the flesh to death, and as a result that person lives.

"...if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live." Romans 8:13

 

[Truther]

I'm not aware of baptism being cancelled in this modern day.

Just watch any Bible teacher on TV and you will see that he says baptism is unnecessary. That is baptism cancel culture at its best.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Rather, the Spirit leads us to water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins

You're complicating things. Just stick to the scriptures. The deeds of the flesh are put to death in a person via the Holy Spirit.

 

[Truther]

That’s my style.
Okay, I can prove that we are not in our own covenant with God but we are included in a future covenant with national Israel.
Jer 31 is not about us, but we have been admitted into it in a partial way.

Notice only some are healed today? Only some are saved today?
That is because the covenant is in official effect at the coming of Christ to National Israel.
We just get a peek at it now

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

 

[Truther]

You're complicating things. Just stick to the scriptures. The deeds of the flesh are put to death in a person via the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Ghost remits our sins instead of baptism?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Just watch any Bible teacher on TV and you will see that he says baptism is unnecessary. That is baptism cancel culture at its best.

Unnecessary for what, exactly? That is the key point that you are missing. There is no power in water baptism in and of itself. Cornelius is proof of that. That doesn't mean one can disobey Christ and not get water baptized. It just means the power of redemption is not in the water itself.

 

[Truther]

The law inflames and arouses the deeds of the flesh (in an unsaved person) and as a result that person will die spiritually. The Spirit, on the other hand, puts the deeds of the flesh to death, and as a result that person lives.

"...if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live." Romans 8:13

The flesh will never be saved per Romans 7. Only the spirit man will be saved.

 

[Truther]

Unnecessary for what, exactly? That is the key point that you are missing. There is no power in water baptism in and of itself. Cornelius is proof of that. That doesn't mean one can disobey Christ and not get water baptized. It just means the power of redemption is not in the water itself.

There is no power in the name of Jesus Christ being spoken in water baptism?