Postmillenial Partial Preterism...What is it? A Victorious View of the Gospel.

[Truth7t7]

As for the thousand years? why do you feel it should be mentioned in more places? If you study the promises of the kingdom life in the OT you will see that the 1,000 years duration is the only new thing that the NT adds to the kingdom itself on earth.

Why is it the earth? Because Jesus comes back physically, judges the peoples and sends the lost to the place of torments and the righteous into the restored earth. Matt. 25 and Rev. 19 both show Jesus returning to earth and doing X things on earth.

1. If the 1,000 years is allegorical and represents the church age where many post millenialists say, then who are those who were resurrected and reign with Jesus for teh church age?

2. If the church age is the 1,000 years then Satan is abyssed which runs contradictory to the teachings of Paul and Peter who say Satan is still roaming the earth

3. If the church age is the 1,000 years, then Satan is releasewd after the church age but Jesus does not fight him but god sends fire from heaven to destroy him and cast him inot the lake of fire!

4. Remember the kingdom is presented in two aspects, physical and spiritual. We are currently lkiving in the spiritual benefits of the kingdom as ambassadors on earth (as Paul said) ambassadors are people sent to foreign lands and not to the kingdom they represent.

Fact is Ron, you have been clearly shown that your claims of a Millennial Kingdom dosent exist in scripture

Dispensationalism takes the (Eternal Kingdom) seen in the Old Testament and falsely claims it's a Millennial Kingdom for 1,000 on this earth, examples Isaiah 2, 11 & 65, Ezekiel 47

Nothing new, the same is done with the second coming, as dispensationalism falsely teaches it's a pre-trib rapture, examples 1 Cor 15:51-52, 1 Thess 4:16-17

 

[Truth7t7]

So when I settled on a dispensational hermeneutic anbd escatology it was a very well researched and studied process of all the major thoughts in Christendom.

You settled on Dispensationalism after moving to Texas, with Dallas Theological being its world headquarters

No such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in scripture

Dual Covenant Theology in two peoples of God Jew/Church is a false teaching, there's one people the Church

 

[Truth7t7]

Thanks to the Lord I have studied to show myself approved.

You believe That Dallas Theologicals Pre-Trib Rapture True

Fact is, it's found no place in scripture, with dispensationalism claiming 1 Corinthians 15:51-54, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 is a pre-trib rapture, when it's nothing more than the second coming and last day resurrection

How long would you be accepted at your church in Texas, if you denied Dispensationalism's claims Ron?

In Love, Jesus Is Lord

 

[Zao is life]

RE: Postmillenial Partial Preterism...What is it? A Victorious View of the Gospel.

Glad you are not dispensational now.
When you get a chance listen to these sermons.

Part 1 of Reply

I've viewed two of them, and not only did I find them inspirational, but Doug Wilson’s teaching has helped me tremendously in my understanding of the language of prophecy, especially when it comes to imagery like the sun and moon going dark, or the moon becoming blood, stars falling from the heavens etc.

Doug compares scripture with scripture, and ties passages of scripture together which I believe actually do, in fact belong together, and he does so with an uncomplicated and simple clarity in his presentation that I don't know if I've ever heard in a Bible teacher before. He's a very good teacher.

Nevertheless I have heard enough to have observed that his system of eschatology and theology is missing something: It’s missing a very important and big chunk of the prophetic Word of God.

As is always the case with us saints, it's not as though the big chunk that Doug is missing is not in the Prophetic Word of God, but like all the saints do all too often, it's just been flatly ignored in order to make the prophetic Word of God comply with Doug’s eschatology.

I will try and explain it this way: A few posts back (Post #142) I said there is something I think you are missing regarding God’s judgement, so let’s just repeat the conclusion I drew in that post:

The world was judged and found guilty when Jesus said it was judged. But the carrying out of the decree has not occurred yet:

It's the carrying out of the decreed sentence that is still coming: John saw death and hades delivering up all the dead in them at the end of time in the current heavens and earth. The books were opened and all whose names were not written in the book of Life were cast into the Lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15), but the Great White Throne is not the judgement - it's the carrying out of the sentence.

The above shows that there is clearly a “Here now but not yet here” aspect to the Kingdom of God.

WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS ABOUT THIS AGE AND THE CLOSE OF THIS AGE (IN A NUTSHELL)

1. THIS AGE

John 18
36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world (Greek: O kósmos, i.e THE world”).' If My kingdom were of this world (O kósmos), then My servants would fight so that I might not be delivered to the Jews. But now (Greek: nŷn, meaning "of this present time") My kingdom is not from here.

Hebrews 2
8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now (Greek: nŷn, meaning "of this present time") we see not yet all things put under him.

2 Corinthians 4
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Note: Not everyone who hears the gospel, believes the gospel. Not everyone will be in the Ark when the decreed sentence is carried out:

John 3
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Part 2 to follow in my next post

 

[Zao is life]

RE: Postmillenial Partial Preterism...What is it? A Victorious View of the Gospel.

Glad you are not dispensational now.
When you get a chance listen to these sermons.

Part 2 of Reply

THE CLOSE OF THIS AGE

In one of his videos (which you pasted here), Doug did what so many of the saints do when explaining why (in their view) their eschatology is correct – he left out a very important part of the prophetic Word of God in Daniel chapter 7 (the very part which does not comply with his eschatology), which is this:

Daniel 7
23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Before being destroyed by Christ, this 11th horn mentioned in the Prophetic Word of God "shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and they will be given into his hand for a time, times and a half a time."

Daniel 12:7 says of this time:

Daniel 12
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

The Revelation says this:

Revelation 10
5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Daniel chapters 7 & 12 both mention the 3 ½ years or 42 months of the reign of this beast, and both passages say that this beast will be destroyed by Christ, and in very similar language the Revelation speaks of the close of this 42-month period, when the seventh trumpet is about to sound.

Revelation 13 says,

Revelation 13
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

It is not everyone who hears the gospel who believes the gospel. The prophetic Word of God does talk of God allowing Satan to attempt to stop the Kingdom of Christ. The Revelation tells us that the dragon will give the beast his seat, his power, and great authority (Revelation 13:2). The Revelation also tells us that the whole world will worship this beast, all except those “whose names are written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” (Revelation 13:8).

Part 3 and final part to follow in my next post

 

[Zao is life]

RE: Postmillenial Partial Preterism...What is it? A Victorious View of the Gospel.

Glad you are not dispensational now.
When you get a chance listen to these sermons.

Part 3 of Reply

THE KINGDOM OF CHRIST DURING THIS AGE

What else did Jesus teach us about His Kingdom?

Luke 17
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

John 14
18 I will not leave you orphans. I will come to you.

20 At that day you shall know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

John 18
36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world (Greek: O kósmos, i.e THE world”). If My kingdom were of this world (O kósmos), then My servants would fight so that I might not be delivered to the Jews. But now (Greek: nŷn, meaning "of this present time") My kingdom is not from here.

Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world (O kósmos) are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Compare this again with Revelation 10 and Daniel 12

Revelation 10
5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Daniel 12
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Now compare this Age with what Jesus said to these people:

Matthew 7
21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven.

Ask yourself the following questions, based on those words, and on what we are taught in Hebrews 2:8 (“Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now (Greek: nŷn, meaning "of this present time") we see not yet all things put under him”).

1. Does Jesus currently reign in this world in the hearts and minds (and therefore the actions) of those who:
A. Do not believe in Him; and therefore
B. Do not submit to His authority or His will?

2. Does Jesus currently reign in this world in the hearts and minds (and therefore the actions) of those who:
A. Believe in Him, but nevertheless
B. Do not submit to His authority or His will?

3. Does Jesus currently reign in this world in the hearts and minds (and therefore the actions) of those who both believe in Him and submit to His authority and His will?

Please note: I'm not talking about the fact that Jesus has both the power and authority to thwart the plans of the wicked or to do whatever He pleases in the world, should He choose to.

Jesus said His Kingdom is not now (of this present time) of this world. He said His Kingdom is within those who believe in Him and follow Him. He said those call Him “Lord, Lord” but do not do the will of God His Father but instead work lawlessness will not inherit His Kingdom.

IN CLOSING

All of this is what Douglas Wilson leaves out of his eschatology, and he does so even though all of this is not left out of the Prophetic Word of God.

Nevertheless, Doug Wilson and all those who are serious about, and actively taking part in the Great Commission, are doing the will of the Father.

So whether or not the eschatology of any saint is faulty (I think to an extent we all have things missing), makes no difference to whether or not the saints are doing the will of God – and the church which Doug Wilson is a part of, certainly seems to be actively involved in the Great Commission.

 

[Iconoclast]

jn18:36 is saying His Kingdom Authority was not of this world, but rather Heavenly authority.
It officially began at His ascension as described in Daniel 7.
Jesus reigns as King of Kings right now even over the rebels...as in Lk.19...
we will not have this man to reign over us.
Psalm 110 says He rules in the midst of His enemies.
He rules in the hearts of believers who can see and enter by new birth.
At the end the angels gather out all who offend.
The gospel is more powerful than any opposition and is victorious.

 

[Iconoclast]

We were talking about interpretation, I thought. So I'm saying, the first use law as some refer to it, shows the first use of these words as being of the lights in the sky. So I'm saying that we do well to stick with that unless there is something in the context, or something else, something we can point to in the Bible that tells us this is something otherwise, as you are saying it is.

I'm saying, the Bible speaks of the sun and moon and stars as the lights in the sky, and unless there is a particular reason to overturn that meaning, I say we hold to it.

And saying, I don't see how that could happen, so it must mean something else, I don't think that's really valid. I'd sooner change my concept of what is possible. I've not come to such an impasse myself. I'm pretty accepting of what I read in the Bible.

Much love!

The examples given in this thread are clearly reference to the judgment and replacement of these nations and cities for those who care to look.
This is the consistent teaching

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Fact is Ron, you have been clearly shown that your claims of a Millennial Kingdom dosent exist in scripture

Dispensationalism takes the (Eternal Kingdom) seen in the Old Testament and falsely claims it's a Millennial Kingdom for 1,000 on this earth, examples Isaiah 2, 11 & 65, Ezekiel 47

Nothing new, the same is done with the second coming, as dispensationalism falsely teaches it's a pre-trib rapture, examples 1 Cor 15:51-52, 1 Thess 4:16-17

Fact is, the bible clearly shows an earthly kingdom and Revelation gives its duration! Most of the kingdom prophecies are the physical kingdom and not the eternal order, that is a heresy brought in by Augustine.

Well Scripture shows we will be gone before the 70 th week of Daniel. but I will let time teach you the truth of that. Yo won't accept the scripttures I give you at their face value because you have been inculcated to look at the verses in an allegorical way.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You settled on Dispensationalism after moving to Texas, with Dallas Theological being its world headquarters

No such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in scripture

Dual Covenant Theology in two peoples of God Jew/Church is a false teaching, there's one people the Church

Well I do not accept dual covenant theology. I accept what Scripture teaches concerning the church and the church age. Any Jew saved in the3 church age is part of teh church. those saved outside of the church age are not part of the church as Jesus said in Matt.

Never lived in Texas.

Pre trib is in the Scriptures if you believe god says what He means and means what He says unless it is clearly shown by Scripture He is using symbolic language.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You believe That Dallas Theologicals Pre-Trib Rapture True

Fact is, it's found no place in scripture, with dispensationalism claiming 1 Corinthians 15:51-54, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 is a pre-trib rapture, when it's nothing more than the second coming and last day resurrection

How long would you be accepted at your church in Texas, if you denied Dispensationalism's claims Ron?

In Love, Jesus Is Lord

Well I believe the biblical pre trib rapture true, Dallas theological just agrees with SCripture. Fact is it is found in Scripture, both implicitly and explicitly. as I have posted the Scriptures to show so.

Once again teh last day resurrection is for lost people only. Rev. 20 shows 2 resurrections separated by 1,000 years!

 

[Truth7t7]

Fact is, the bible clearly shows an earthly kingdom and Revelation gives its duration! Most of the kingdom prophecies are the physical kingdom and not the eternal order, that is a heresy brought in by Augustine.

Well Scripture shows we will be gone before the 70 th week of Daniel. but I will let time teach you the truth of that. Yo won't accept the scripttures I give you at their face value because you have been inculcated to look at the verses in an allegorical way.

Fact is, there is no physical kingdom on this earth seen in Revelation 20:1-6 as you claim, the scripture clearly describes this in the Lord's spiritual realm, Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ, 100% Spiritual Realm

Fact is, there is no literal earthly time in the Lords Spiritual, One Day Is A Thousand Years, Be Not Ignorant

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

100% Spiritual Realm, No Literal Earthly Time

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Truth7t7]

Well I believe the biblical pre trib rapture true, Dallas theological just agrees with SCripture. Fact is it is found in Scripture, both implicitly and explicitly. as I have posted the Scriptures to show so.

Once again teh last day resurrection is for lost people only. Rev. 20 shows 2 resurrections separated by 1,000 years!

There is no pre-trib rapture found in scripture as you claim, it's a fabrication of man, namely John N. Darby and Adulterer C.I. Scofield, the father and foundation of Dallas Theological through his prodigy in Lewis S. Chafer

C.I. Scofield promoted this teaching in his 1909 reference bible, better known a Dispensationalism

There is one resurrection of all, this takes place on the last day, at the second coming of Jesus Christ, John 5:28-29, John 6:39-40, 1 Corinthians 15:23-24, John 12:48

 

[Truth7t7]

those saved outside of the church age are not part of the church as Jesus said in Matt.

Never lived in Texas.

Pre trib is in the Scriptures if you believe god says what He means and means what He says unless it is clearly shown by Scripture He is using symbolic language.

Your theology now has two groups of people that are favored of God, a Church and Others in a tribulation?

Ron your teaching is contrary to scripture, as all believers are sealed by the Holy Spirit and become the (Church), there is no pre-trib rapture found in scripture as many claim, it's a fabrication of man, namely John N. Darby and C.I. Scofield's disensationalism

Possibly it's your belief in a pre-trib rapture found no place in scripture, that has promoted for this teaching?

Pre-Trib Rapture (Church Gone) Now Another Group Must Be Named For Salvation During The Tribulation

The scripture below teaches that a believe is sealed unto the day of redemption (The End)

All saved believers are (Sealed) by God, Eph 1:13, 4:30

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

 

[Truth7t7]

Never lived in Texas.

Pre trib is in the Scriptures if you believe god says what He means and means what He says unless it is clearly shown by Scripture He is using symbolic language.

Ron I Apologize For My Error, That Was (Ron Bruno) Who Lives In Texas

 

[marks]

There is no pre-trib rapture found in scripture as you claim, it's a fabrication of man, namely John N. Darby and Adulterer C.I. Scofield, the father and foundation of Dallas Theological through his prodigy in Lewis S. Chafer, C.I. Scofield promoted this teaching in his 1909 reference bible, better known a Dispensationalism

Actually it was first taught by the Apostle to the Gentiles, Paul. Myself, I don't study the writings of Darby or Scofield, but I do study the writings of Paul.

Much love!

 

[Truth7t7]

Actually it was first taught by the Apostle to the Gentiles, Paul. Myself, I don't study the writings of Darby or Scofield, but I do study the writings of Paul.

Much love!

The teaching and promotion of a pre-trib rapture was brought forth by John N. Darby in "Many" world conferences held, and by Adulterer C.I. Scofield in his 1909 reference bible, this being the greatest world influence planting the teaching within the hearts and minds of the unaware, with $Millions$ of copies sold worldwide

A pre-trib rapture is found no place in scripture, as dispensationalism uses 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 as their primary support for this teaching, with the scripture referenced being nothing more than the second coming, last day resurrection, not a pre-trib rapture as claimed

The ole bait and switch, let's pull another rabbit out of the hat, shell game number 1,2,3?

Wikipedia: John Nelson Darby (18 November 1800 – 29 April 1882) was an Anglo-Irish Bible teacher, one of the influential figures among the original Plymouth Brethren and the founder of the Exclusive Brethren. He is considered to be the father of modern Dispensationalism and Futurism. Pre-tribulation rapture theology was popularized extensively in the 1830s by John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren, and further popularized in the United States in the early 20th century by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible.

 

[marks]

The teaching and promotion of a pre-trib rapture was brought forth by John N. Darby in "Many" world conferences held, and by Adulterer C.I. Scofield in his 1909 reference bible, this being the greatest world influence planting the teaching within the hearts and minds of the unaware, with $Millions$ of copies sold worldwide

A pre-trib rapture is found no place in scripture, as dispensationalism uses 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 as their primary support for this teaching, with the scripture referenced being nothing more than the second coming, last day resurrection, not a pre-trib rapture as claimed

The ole bait and switch, let's pull another rabbit out of the hat, shell game number 1,2,3?

Wikipedia: John Nelson Darby (18 November 1800 – 29 April 1882) was an Anglo-Irish Bible teacher, one of the influential figures among the original Plymouth Brethren and the founder of the Exclusive Brethren. He is considered to be the father of modern Dispensationalism and Futurism. Pre-tribulation rapture theology was popularized extensively in the 1830s by John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren, and further popularized in the United States in the early 20th century by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible.

You needn't bother me with these shallow arguments. If you want to discuss the Scripture on it, great, otherwise, I'm not interested.

Much love!

 

[Truth7t7]

You needn't bother me with these shallow arguments. If you want to discuss the Scripture on it, great, otherwise, I'm not interested.

Much love!

By all means, post scripture regarding your claims of a pre-trib rapture, waiting?

 

[marks]

By all means, post scripture regarding your claims of a pre-trib rapture, waiting?

I'm just saying, if you are going to do it, don't bother being shallow about it. That's if you want to. Myself, I don't feel any need to try to justify my view to you, or to try to convince you of my view. I'm sure I wouldn't be successful in either case.

So, if you want to. You will not draw me into a discussion with those kinds of comments.

Much love!