Here is what it all comes down to—- and you’d better get it right!

[stunnedbygrace]

Parsing sins.

Are you aware that ALL sin is the same, the works of the flesh? Whatever the circumstance, whatever the "flavor", whatever your opinions or perceptions of what sort of sin this is, they are all works of the flesh. No sin originates in the new man. None.

Do you agree with this?

Much love!

He wasn’t saying both men weren’t sinning. He was saying one knew better and did it. It’s like that verse, but to he who knew, he will receive more stripes

 

[BarneyFife]

No, it's there.
Note in the passage how deliberately sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth is compared to rejecting the law of Moses:

26If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume all adversaries. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think one deserves to be punished who has trampled on the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and insulted the Spirit of grace?30For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine; I will repay,”f and again, “The Lord will judge His people.”g 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Hebrews 10:26
​

I believe the author is making reference to Deuteronomy 29:19-20...

"...when such a person hears the words of this oath, he invokes a blessing on himself, saying, ‘I will have peace, even though I walk in the stubbornness of my own heart.’

20The LORD will never be willing to forgive him. Instead, His anger and jealousy will burn against that man
​

It's correlation to the Hebrews 10:26-31 passage is obvious. The context of the passage is turning away from the Lord, not just failures of the believer growing up into the Lord. Turning away from the Lord in the deliberate disobedience associated with unbelief is what constitutes the 'deliberately sinning' the author of Hebrews is speaking about.

Notice vs. 19...

‘I will have peace, even though I walk in the stubbornness of my own heart.’​

That is exactly the summary thinking of the Hyper Grace movement. The author of Hebrews is saying, the outcome of the person who thinks that in this New Covenant will not only face the same fate, but worse! And yet they persist in their willful sin because their ears have been tickled by the likes of Andrew Farley who told them Hebrews 10:26 isn't talking about them. Wouldn't want to be Andrew Farley on the Day of Christ. Ouch!

​

Interesting. Also of note is how verse 27 speaks of consumption as opposed to eternal torment in reference to hellfire. And the unpardonable sin at the end of verse 29.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

...committed in determined unbelief.

You keep leaving that part off of the argument. Why?

It’s your “ recent addition” .....you have not Repented from your “ old” position......that was the Doctrine that a Willful sin could send you to Hell if you did not repent of it before you died.....it was your on- going erroneous “take” on Hebrews 10..... an inexcusable “ take” in this day and age.....unless you are too Stiff- Necked to listen to wise, God - Gifted Teachers Of The Word....the True explanation of that “ scary” verse could be understood by a ten year old.....why not you?

 

[marks]

Most I run across think saved means to live forever. I think saved means…to have Gods Spirit in you.

For me being saved means to have been born from God, now His spirit child. That's more the means by which I've been rescued. It means to be removed from Adam and transfered to Christ.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It’s your “ recent addition” .....you have not Repented from your “ old” position......that was the Doctrine that a Willful sin could send you to Hell if you did not repent of it before you died.....it was your on- going erroneous “take” on Hebrews 10..... an inexcusable “ take” in this day and age.....unless you are too Stiff- Necked to listen to wise, God - Gifted Teachers Of The Word....the True explanation of that “ scary” verse could be understood by a ten year old.....why not you?

I already explained this to you. Did you just decide to not read that one last night, and yet decide you are qualified to comment on what I say? You really need to start reading my posts and with comprehension if you're going to criticize and critique what I say.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Doctrines of annihilation of the sinner do have a profound impact on how someone will interpret the Bible, involving dramatic changes in understandings.

Much love!

It’s the only way I could go given all the verses. I just don’t believe we are born with eternal life.

 

[marks]

He wasn’t saying both men weren’t sinning. He was saying one knew better and did it. It’s like that verse, but to he who knew, he will receive more stripes

I understand that.

He cites the reasoning for the sin as affecting it's sinfulness.

It's "OK" for him if one man sins out of fear, but if it's just from disregard, that one counts. I don't see sin that way. There is my Father's Way, and the fleshy way, and which one is the source of sin?

Is the sin of the flesh somehow accepted if you felt this but not that? I don't think so. All sin is lawlessness, all arises from flesh, and all is contrary to faith.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Interesting. Also of note is how verse 27 speaks of consumption as opposed to eternal torment in reference to hellfire. And the unpardonable sin at the end of verse 29.

Yes. And the correlation with Deuteronomy 29:19-20 is unmistakable.

 

[Grailhunter]

“ Text Without Context is Error”......

There are NINE chapters in Hebrews before one gets to Chapter 10 .....The ONLY topic being discussed is UNBELIEF.....these Jews had a chance to put their Faith in the Blood Of Jesus or go back to Temple Worship and put their Faith in the Blood Of animals ......rejecting the Sacrifice Of Jesus and relying and returning animal sacrifices was the “Willful Sin” being committed......Jesus was the Once And Only acceptable Sacrifice to God after the Cross .......Reject Him and there is no other ( no more) sacrifice for sin......what was once “ acceptable” has become blasphemous.......the Blood Of sheep and goats could NEVER take away sins....only the blood of Jesus could .....Th Jews Rejected the Blood Of Jesus....that is “Willful Sinning” That will take Anybody to Hell.....

Nobody was talking about the “ willful sins” that you are obsessed with....everyday sins that we ALL do on purpose and try to rationalize it by saying they were “ accidental”.....The sights were being set on much weightier things when Hebrews 10 was being written......have the insight and the guts to admit that you sometimes sin on purpose and thank God for His Grace....Do the same thing with ALL of your sins that God does—— PUT THEM ON THE CROSS ......and LEAVE them there.....God may choose to Chastise you quite severely for those sins done on purpose...Just as you would do YOUR Children,....He ain’t gonna Damn you for them ! Try to Believe the first half of the Gospel.....Jesus actually DID “die for your sins”......Internalizing that Truth will actually cause you to sin LESS instead of MORE! Christianity is crazy that way.....

John 5:14 Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, “See, you have been made well. Sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you.”

Oh but Christ is not good enough...right right...you like Paul better....Ok here is some Paul...

Romans 1:32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. LOL Guess who he is talking about!

2nd Corinthians 12:21 lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and I shall mourn for many who have sinned before and have not repented of the uncleanness, fornication, and lewdness which they have practiced. Paul had quite the battle with the church of Corinth because they apparently believed like you, that all manner of sin was just OK with Christ.

2nd Corinthians 13:2 I told you before, and foretell you, as if I were present, the second time; and being absent now I write to them which heretofore have sinned, and to all other, that, if I come again, I will not spare:

2nd Corinthians:5:10: "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.”

The truth is it does not matter whether if it is Christ, Paul, John, or Peter...the message....the Gospel is be good and do good.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I understand that.

He cites the reasoning for the sin as affecting it's sinfulness.

It's "OK" for him if one man sins out of fear, but if it's just from disregard, that one counts. I don't see sin that way. There is my Father's Way, and the fleshy way, and which one is the source of sin?

Is the sin of the flesh somehow accepted if you felt this but not that? I don't think so. All sin is lawlessness, all arises from flesh, and all is contrary to faith.

Much love!

I actually think he looks at it the exact opposite. The man who knows and does it anyway receives more lashes…to he who is given more, more is required.

 

[BarneyFife]

unless you are too Stiff- Necked to listen to wise, God - Gifted Teachers Of The Word..

Who are these people, BB?

 

[BarneyFife]

It's "OK" for him if one man sins out of fear,

Are you sure he's saying it's ok?

 

[Tong2020]

And what if we don’t keep our trust? Why does the apostle say “if”? And if we look at the work of Moses as an illustration of Jesus and us, is it wise to say our trust saves us but it is not necessary to continue in that trust?

If one does not keep his faith/trust or does not continue to trust, it could only mean that what faith/trust he have isn’t true faith/trust, one that isn’t coming from God. For the faith that comes from God is a gift that one gets to have by the will and working of God. And that faith is unlike that which comes from the man. It is one that is continuing and with power.

Tong
R4218

 

[marks]

I actually think he looks at it the exact opposite. The man who knows and does it anyway receives more lashes…to he who is given more, more is required.

He applies it to salvation, that one sin will remove you from God while the other will not. That is what I disagree with.

Having been baptized into Jesus Christ, our sins will no longer separate us from God. We are new creations, the spirit children of God, while sin lives in the flesh. Sin is in the line of the First Man, we are now in the Last Man.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

If one does not keep his faith/trust or does not continue to trust, it could only mean that what faith/trust he have isn’t true faith/trust, one that isn’t coming from God. For the faith that comes from God is a gift that one gets to have by the will and working of God. And that faith is unlike that which comes from the man. It is one that is continuing and with power.

Tong
R4218

God sews the seed. It’s true seed. But there are things that can choke the seed of trust.

 

[marks]

Are you sure he's saying it's ok?

He parses according to "these sins will separate you from God" and "these sins will not separate you from God", that is, if you sin this way, you remain saved. But if you sin that way, you do not.

So then some sins will result in you becoming "unborn again", while others do not.

@Ferris Bueller

Is this correct?

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

He parses according to "these sins will separate you from God" and "these sins will not separate you from God", that is, if you sin this way, you remain saved. But if you sin that way, you do not.

So then some sins will result in you becoming "unborn again", while others do not.

@Ferris Bueller

Is this correct?

Much love!

I don’t think I’ve ever heard him say what he thinks about where a man who doesn’t hold fast goes…

 

[stunnedbygrace]

There are a lot of questions, right? Keep trusting God, that’s crucial, but there are so many questions? like, how will it be better for sodom in the end than for religious hypocrites? If both are in eternal torment, living in pain forever, in the same exact place, how does that make sense? And if every man ever bornlives forever, what is the second death?.

 

[Tong2020]

You will work it through with Gods help. You keep saying belief, which is trust. So to my mind, you are saying, it is necessary to trust God but it is not necessary to continue in that trust. But I don’t think you really believe or even do that.

<<<You will work it through with Gods help.>>>

You will work what with God’s help? Continue believing? As I said, my view is that the faith that comes from God, that God gives to those whom He saves, is of that nature. It is continuing, unlike faith that comes from us. So, if this is the faith that one have, the faith that comes from God, he will certainly be trusting God continuously. That is because that is the nature of the faith that comes from God.

<<<So to my mind, you are saying, it is necessary to trust God but it is not necessary to continue in that trust.>>

Nope. That is not what I am saying.

Tong
R4219

 

[Tong2020]

The kingdom of heaven is in you.

That might be in a different sense perhaps.

Tong
R4220