The GREAT TRIBULATION Has Begun!

[quietthinker]

The rest of the revelation passage I sent, contradicts your explanation:

Rev 19:11 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war.

Rev 19:12 His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself.

Rev 19:13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.

Rev 19:14 And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses.

Rev 19:15 From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.

Rev 19:16 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

Rev 19:17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly directly overhead, “Come, gather for the great supper of God,

Rev 19:18 to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great.”

Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies gathered to make war against him who was sitting on the horse and against his army.

Rev 19:20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

Rev 19:21 And the rest were slain by the sword that came from the mouth of him who was sitting on the horse, and all the birds were gorged with their flesh.

It all depends on how one reads it. If one reads with a paradigm of 'getting even' .... 'revenge'...as per the natural human inclination then one will superimpose that inclination onto God without blinking but if one reads it as judging in righteousness one comes up with a paradigm consistent with Jesus the same yesterday, today and forever. The only way we can know how Jesus was yesterday and forever is to look at what he is like today ie, in his life on Earth. He tells us he came to save the lost not destroy them.....do you think he changed his mind? Ohhh, or do you mean he is beholden to your eschatology?

He gave Judas every opportunity to see but Judas chose what he chose and we all know what that choice was. Did Jesus kill him?....I think he killed himself.
Did Noah close the door to keep people out? He closed it because the rain was coming. By their own choice in the face of being warned what would occur for long years the majority figured they'd have a better chance swimming. We know how that ended also.

God told Israel the inhabitants of the land they were about to possess would vacate because of hornets but no, they wouldn't have it, they wanted to fight....blood and guts. God gave them a concession and capitulated to their demands....just like he did with the matter of divorce.....'because of the hardness of their hearts'. God wanted to lead them but no, they wanted a King like the other nations so God capitulated even warning them of the results of their choice......and they suffered unbelievably for it.

Suffering and death are the domain of the Devil and he uses deception to make Earths inhabitants believe it is God's.....even God's own people.
He paints God with his own character....and it is believed by most.....a God who requires appeasing by blood. Earths history is testimony to that.

 

[Taken]

MatthewG ~

God is Holy.
God is Spirit.

John 5:
[37] And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Straight off...we are informed of a disconnect of A created flesh man, (with ears, with eyes);
of A created flesh man, who is man MADE to have with ears that hear, with eyes that see)...

AND...such man created AND made MAN-KIND of thing...(is NOT a spirit, and can not communicate, WITH a Holy Spirit)...

"Appears LIKE" an improbability, for a created and made, Man-KIND of thing, whose Estate IS Earth;
to ever HAVE a "relationship", with the Holy Spirit God, whose Estate IS Heaven.

The Big Picture hangs on..."HOW" does God,
Solve such a "mystery" of such an "improbability"?

The answer...hangs on..."Gods POWER".
(Gods Power to: Appear IN the "LIKENESS", of "SOMETHING", a man CAN SEE, CAN HEAR)...

So...then...HOW does a manKIND of thing, KNOW "it is GOD"... "APPEARING" AS...
The THING, the man Hears, The THING the man SEES ?
THAT ^ is where...individual freewill of a man-KIND of thing...ENTERS...the freewill of a man-KIND of thing...TO TRUST TO BELIEVE what he SEES and HEARS.

Scriptural guidance reveals...
IF, what a man-KIND of thing...SEES and HEARS and DIRECTION FOR OUTCOME IS of and for GOOD, it IS of God.
IF, what a man-KIND of thing...SEES and HEARS and DIRECTION IS of and for EVIL, it IS NOT of God.

And THERE IS where...Confusion for man-KIND, can Stir.
* Men "trying to understand God", according to a mans Carnal MIND", (logic, weighing between THIS and THAT).

Gods directive...DO NOT MURDER.
Gods directive...Go, slaughter "these" men.

*?&?....WHAT?
Don't kill men, go kill men. "IF" I kill a man, won't their descendants, come to kill me? Am I creating strife among men? And, and...will you God, then kill me, because I killed a man? CONFUSION.

It is the Scriptures themselves, the Words, the Teaching "methods" of men, the "philosophies" and "understandings" of men who form "their" Conclusions and Preach those conclusions; to men....that CONTINUE the 'CONFUSION' and 'Disagreements" AMONG MEN...
And we see it DAILY, on this forum.
(This scholar said this, This preacher said this, This philosopher said this, the current Pope said this, blah, blah).

Bottom Line...IF one heartfully believes the Heavenly God Almighty, IS the creator and maker of man-KIND...AND HE has given us AN Appointed "BY GOD", "intercessory" for mankind to SEE and HEAR...AND we freely CHOOSE TO TRUST, TO DO and NOT DO, as He (the God Appointed intercessory) directs...

* IMO...God Himself has SOLVED the MYSTERY of HOW a manKIND of thing, (who can not SEE Gods Shape, or HEAR Gods Voice)...CAN have a "Personal relationship" with God.

* FURTHER...IMO...Any man-KIND of thing, that "Agrees"/"Submits", to having a "personal relationship" WITH God..."IS the SAME man"...WHOM God Himself, WILL CHOOSE, and CAUSE, and KEEP an "everlasting" Relationship Between God and that man...
PERIOD.

* PERIOD...without regard or consideration, of what other men, scholars, philosophers, priests, pastors, popes...think, say, declare, pronounce, believe.

Just reflecting...

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[quietthinker]

Of course nothing can harm or dethrone God, and misinterpreting His actions as schizophrenic won't exhaust His patience, but the wilfully ignorant and stubborn resistance to His Word and His Will as revealed in Scripture does invite correction, chastisement and punishment.

Best not to test Him.

I do not live in fear of my Saviour and self honesty compels me to ask what the 'religious' might deem blasphemy.

 

[Taken]

The Eternal Kingdom!

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

The question was NOT IF there shall be a new heaven and new earth.

The question was...you saying MEN would be risen UP to Earth....(which is currently corrupt)....and THEN the earth would be renewed.

You quoting John, does not answer the question.
John was speaking from his persepective...
You did not consider Johns perspective...

Johns perspective...of WHERE his spirit IS, IS in heaven....

Rev 4:
[1] After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
[2] And immediately I was in the spirit:

 

[Truth7t7]

The question was NOT IF there shall be a new heaven and new earth.

The question was...you saying MEN would be risen UP to Earth....(which is currently corrupt)....and THEN the earth would be renewed.

You quoting John, does not answer the question.
John was speaking from his persepective...
You did not consider Johns perspective...

Johns perspective...of WHERE his spirit IS, IS in heaven....

Rev 4:
[1] After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
[2] And immediately I was in the spirit:

Your claim is false, at no time have I stated men are raised up to this earth, nor have I stated this earth will be renewed, stop the misrepresentation

Jesus Christ returns in fire and Final judgement, as the resurrection of all takes place, and the believers are caught up, then the earth is dissolved by fire (The End)

 

[Taken]

~ quietthinker ~

You asked, how do we understand the Wrath of God...?

Not presuming you do not know, or being rhetorical.

My perspective is:
God is the creator.
God then MAKES particular things, apply to his creations.

Such as. God creates a dust form, calls it a man, then MAKES that dust form ALIVE, and calls His MAKING "works", result...very good.

The alive, dust formed, thing called a man-KIND of thing, has freewill to "MAKE" choices.
He makes "choices", that MAKES him...not very good.

God offers a WAY, for that man, to become (by the power of God)..re-made...to "good", with an additional offer...for the mans "natural spirit" (which is his truth in his hearts thoughts)...to be re-made, from Gods Seed, a new, supernatural spirit, coupled with, Gods Truth in his new spirit.

We have the knowledge...By, Of, Through Gods Works...a man can BE "RE-MADE"...IF the man desires, and freely chooses, to accept Gods Offering...to BE Re-MADE.

The Consequences...ie results...
Freely choose to Be RE-MADE...Be WITH God, forever.
Freely choose to NOT Be RE-MADE...Be WITHOUT God, forever.

The last Days Great Tribulation -
Begins with Wrath of the Lamb.
Wrath, is the effect, of the Lambs Anger.
WHY is the Lamb Angry?
BECAUSE...
OT men, believers IN God, complained...
Following a GOD they could not SEE, was working okay for THEM....but, but, but...the TASK of Teaching "Other" men...who could not SEE or HEAR God...was proving daunting in trying to "convince" men God existed.
So....God promises He will Visibly and Audibly COME to Earth and Walk Among men...
How exciting....
So...WHEN He arrives...say WHAT? He looks like any other Jewish man. And he's a nobody. No wealth. No kingdom. No army...
AND....when hung on the cross, couldn't even save Himself.
Pfff...
BUT, but, but....HUH? He rises up, Walks among men, is seen, is heard...WOW...to some....IMPOSTER...to others.
....The Lamb IS ANGRY....Because...men requested and demanded to SEE and HEAR God...and when they "Jewish men"...were GIVEN what men demanded...they (majority) still did not believe.
...AND YET...as history progresses...Gentiles, (many, many)...who neither Heard or Saw...
God walking among men, talking to men...
BELIEVE, without seeing or hearing.
....The Lambs Wrath, is directed to Jews, ie, all tribes, who were given what they said they required to believe...and still rejected belief AFTER being given the Lamb of God...(and any Gentiles, who reject, God and the Lamb of God.)
...It's a punishment...a wake up call...calling their attention to ... asking for this, getting it, then still rejecting it. Tsk, Tsk...spanked. THEN...are given salavation That requires physical death...UNLIKE, (believing Jews and Gentiles, who received Salvation, without "first" having to physically die.)
...during the Trib...God sends His temporarily protected Servants (two witnesses) and then His permanently sealed Servants (144,000) expressly to preach to the tribes...Jews, ISRAEL...(to Hear, Choose)...
AS "they" commit to Belief...
....ANOTHER becomes "ANGRY"...WHO? The Devil...thus comes into the acts during the Trib...is the Wrath of the Devil...the Devil is sitting in a world power seat, WITH armies...and sends out his armies to "physically KILL", men accepting and commiting to the Lord God.
...men accepting...Tribes, Gentiles...continues...as does the devils armies continue seeking and bodily killing men....(who reject the devil, and accept the Lord God)....(no worries, their soul is saved, spirit quickened, resting in Gods peace and comfort of Heaven)....body rotting...no worry, God will remember and raise them up in Glory, LATER in a renewed body...and they be with God forever.
...Gods ANGER lastly is revealed, by, of, through His Wrath.
...IS God ANGRY men rejected Him? His Lamb? Sure. IS that the crux of Gods reasoning FOR His EXTREME punishment UPON the remainer of men ON the Earth, (who rejected Him and His Lamb)?
No
Huh?
* God has already Separated, His Believing Saved..(soul and spirit) risen to heaven.
* Before God Separates the Unbelieving from the face of the Earth...(ie mans estate)...
* He gives the remaining unbelieving men...
A DOSE of "their own medicine" (so to speak).
* ALL the unbelieving men, WHO... persecuted, (by all manners...hate, lying against, unjustly inprisoning, threatening, separating from families, stealing their means to support themselves, blah, blah,)...
Believing men...shall be Subjected TO Gods persecution...FOR them Persecuting men BECAUSE THEY BELIEVED....
Called Gods Vengeance...of Avenging all the men who Believed despite their suffering of the persecutions of men.

So how can we "understand" the Wrath of God...?
In a word...JUSTICE...
Rendering, Giving, to one the Consequence, for an their ACT, THAT...was
"not forgiven or amended".

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Your claim is false, at no time have I stated men are raised up to this earth, nor have I stated this earth will be renewed, stop the misrepresentation....

Try to pay attention.
You made a comment.
I asked you a question ABOUT YOUR WORDS IN YOUR COMMENT.

You reply with Scriptural quotes.
Your Scriptural quotes...were NOT YOUR WORDS...nor did your Scriptural quotes answer the question asked of you...ABOUT WHAT "YOU" SAID.

"Asking" you to clarify WHAT YOU SAY..."is not making" a false claim...

Do you NOT comprehend ASKING YOU to clarify YOUR WORDS, is an expectation of YOU to further USE YOUR WORDS to express YOUR THOUGHTS...? Which you didn't.

When you Speak YOUR WORDS, and asked about YOUR WORDS...Expound on YOUR WORDS, with YOUR WORDS...
Scripture is not FOR "explaining" your words, but rather...to buttress, verify, YOUR WORDS.

Jesus Christ returns in fire and Final judgement, as the resurrection of all takes place, and the believers are caught up, then the earth is dissolved by fire (The End)

And example OF YOUR WORDS ^^.

Verification of Scripture, OF YOUR WORDS...
" The RESURRECTION OF ALL takes place.."

Misleading.
" the Ressurrection of ALL.... WHO HAVE NOT ALREADY BEEN RESURRECTED takes place".



Rev 20...
[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Resurrections of the DEAD...have occured throughout history. OT and NT.
Resurrected of the DEAD...reign with Christ a thousand years...
THEN THE REST of the DEAD...are resurrected AFTER the 1,000 years.

That which is "called" THE FIRST resurrection...is NOTIFYING YOU, "NONE" of the SAVED, thereafter, shall remain BODILY DEAD.

That which is "revealed" IN Scripture, Notifies you...other "RESURRECTIONS" from the DEAD have previously Occured.
"THE REST" of the dead, Notifies you...AGAIN...some ARE "resurrected"...BEFORE OTHERS.

YOUR WORDS...
"Jesus Christ returns"...
??? To WHERE?
"the believers are caught up"....
???? To WHERE?
You didn't answer...why not?

 

[Truth7t7]

Try to pay attention.
You made a comment.
I asked you a question ABOUT YOUR WORDS IN YOUR COMMENT.

You reply with Scriptural quotes.
Your Scriptural quotes...were NOT YOUR WORDS...nor did your Scriptural quotes answer the question asked of you...ABOUT WHAT "YOU" SAID.

"Asking" you to clarify WHAT YOU SAY..."is not making" a false claim...

Do you NOT comprehend ASKING YOU to clarify YOUR WORDS, is an expectation of YOU to further USE YOUR WORDS to express YOUR THOUGHTS...? Which you didn't.

When you Speak YOUR WORDS, and asked about YOUR WORDS...Expound on YOUR WORDS, with YOUR WORDS...
Scripture is not FOR "explaining" your words, but rather...to buttress, verify, YOUR WORDS.



And example OF YOUR WORDS ^^.

Verification of Scripture, OF YOUR WORDS...
" The RESURRECTION OF ALL takes place.."

Misleading.
" the Ressurrection of ALL.... WHO HAVE NOT ALREADY BEEN RESURRECTED takes place".



Rev 20...
[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Resurrections of the DEAD...have occured throughout history. OT and NT.
Resurrected of the DEAD...reign with Christ a thousand years...
THEN THE REST of the DEAD...are resurrected AFTER the 1,000 years.

That which is "called" THE FIRST resurrection...is NOTIFYING YOU, "NONE" of the SAVED, thereafter, shall remain BODILY DEAD.

That which is "revealed" IN Scripture, Notifies you...other "RESURRECTIONS" from the DEAD have previously Occured.
"THE REST" of the dead, Notifies you...AGAIN...some ARE "resurrected"...BEFORE OTHERS.

YOUR WORDS...
"Jesus Christ returns"...
??? To WHERE?
"the believers are caught up"....
???? To WHERE?
You didn't answer...why not?

Once Again

At no time have I stated men are raised up to this earth, nor have I stated this earth will be renewed, stop the misrepresentation

Jesus Christ returns in fire and Final judgement, as the resurrection of all takes place, and the believers are caught up, then the earth is dissolved by fire (The End)

 

[Taken]

Once Again

At no time have I stated men are raised up to this earth, nor have I stated this earth will be renewed, stop the misrepresentation

Jesus Christ returns in fire and Final judgement, as the resurrection of all takes place, and the believers are caught up, then the earth is dissolved by fire (The End)

Trying to have a conversation with the ignorant is pointless.
Not my job to teach you the difference between a statement and a question.

 

[Taken]

It all depends on how one reads it. If one reads with a paradigm of 'getting even' .... 'revenge'...as per the natural human inclination then one will superimpose that inclination onto God without blinking but if one reads it as judging in righteousness one comes up with a paradigm consistent with Jesus the same yesterday, today and forever. The only way we can know how Jesus was yesterday and forever is to look at what he is like today ie, in his life on Earth. He tells us he came to save the lost not destroy them.....do you think he changed his mind? Ohhh, or do you mean he is beholden to your eschatology?

He gave Judas every opportunity to see but Judas chose what he chose and we all know what that choice was. Did Jesus kill him?....I think he killed himself.
Did Noah close the door to keep people out? He closed it because the rain was coming. By their own choice in the face of being warned what would occur for long years the majority figured they'd have a better chance swimming. We know how that ended also.

God told Israel the inhabitants of the land they were about to possess would vacate because of hornets but no, they wouldn't have it, they wanted to fight....blood and guts. God gave them a concession and capitulated to their demands....just like he did with the matter of divorce.....'because of the hardness of their hearts'. God wanted to lead them but no, they wanted a King like the other nations so God capitulated even warning them of the results of their choice......and they suffered unbelievably for it.

Suffering and death are the domain of the Devil and he uses deception to make Earths inhabitants believe it is God's.....even God's own people.
He paints God with his own character....and it is believed by most.....a God who requires appeasing by blood. Earths history is testimony to that.

Agree with your points...EXCEPT...

Did Noah close the door to keep people out? He closed it because the rain was coming

Noah was in the ark 7 days before the rain began.
The LORD shut Noah in the Ark.

Interesting...for 7...Noah was secure BEFORE Gods works of Wrath began to come down from Heaven upon the Earth...
Anyway....

Gen 7:
[1] And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark...
Gen 7:
[4] For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth...
Gen 7:
[16] And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Robert Gwin]

Are you saying the governments will be devout Christian?

No Gen I am not, in fact upon Jesus' return, he will destroy every government on the face of the earth and usher in the Kingdom of God Dan 2:44

Many times in the past, Jehovah has used governments to further His purpose, perhaps you recall the fulfilled prophecy of Cyrus heading up the liberation of Jehovah's people from Babylon.

 

[Taken]

Hello @Truth7t7

I have a question

If this world is suppose to pass away when we are alive and the return happens won’t the destruction of the earth render Jesus Christ words never going away for people to learn from?

Won’t that prevent others from entering into the kingdom of heaven?

The Son of man, was sent to earth...humbled, AS a Servant, IN the LIKENESS AS, specifically A Jewish man of the House of David.
While on Earth, it was revealed BY WORD...WHO this Son of man IS, (that men CAN SEE) is "spiritually" (that men can NOT SEE)....but CAN SEE the effects of His works.

He IS the WORD of God, and came forth OUT of Gods MOUTH, while like our own words, come forth out of our mouths, YET remain IN us.

The MYSTERY IS...our words come forth out of our mouth, as speech. Gods Word came forth out of His mouth, in a formed body of an earthly man....that God espressly prepared...for when He would come into this world...(earth).

Point being, Gods WORD, IS God, be His WORD, appear in the likeness as a DOVE, a BURNING BUSH, a DONKEY, and EARTHLY MAN...
God IS Eternal, as IS Gods WORD Eternal.

WHAT IS ALSO Eternal, IS GODS Creations.
What is the mystery...IS:
Gods....MAKING POWER.
Meaning...ALL of Gods "creations" have an Original MAKING....form, look, appearance, ability, etc.
However, by, of, through, Gods POWER...is an Original MADE THING, able TO BE "re-MADE", to have a different appearance, form, look, ability, etc.

Gods Re-MAKING, of a created thing; "FIRST" requires...
A DESTRUCTION...A spiritual Destruction, IS NOT, making a created thing, "uncreated"...
But rather, Destroying an Appearance of the 'created' thing.

One scripture...Destroy the earth?
One scripture...Earth is never ending?
It's both.
What we see now...will be changed "re-made", for us to SEE Earth, in the fashion God Himself, wants us TO SEE the Earth.

One scripture...Destroy a mans body?
One scripture...A mans body shall live forever?
It's both.
One body shall be MADE to resemble the look of ASH, and buried beneath the Earth, forgotten of living men, and where no living man can enter.
One body shall be MADE to resemble the look of An earthly MAN, without the visible effects, we now see men...stooped over unable to stand erect, scars, sores, from diseases, sad, worried faces, missing limbs, blind, etc.

Everything pertaining to an earthly man;
hangs on "LIFE"...IN the man....or NOT.

Gods WORD prevails, Forever, without end...
Whether or NOT...any particular man prevails Forever WITH LIFE IN him...or NOT.

Many will NOT, enter into the Lords millennial Kingdom on Earth...(1,000 years of Saved Glorified men occupying His Kingdom...WHILE a remnant of mortal men, continue to exist outside of His Kingdom)....and thereafter, when NO mortals exist on earth....the Lords Kingdom, expands to the Entire Earth, and only Glorified men WITH LIFE IN them occupy the Earth....all other men, without life in them...changed to ash. They have no ears to hear...so no, it does not matter, if every glorified man shouted Gods Word, or God Himself is Speaking His Word....men without Life IN THEM...can hear nothing.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[MatthewG]

Ok will disagree @Truth7t7

 

[MatthewG]

The Son of man, was sent to earth...humbled, AS a Servant, IN the LIKENESS AS, specifically A Jewish man of the House of David.
While on Earth, it was revealed BY WORD...WHO this Son of man IS, (that men CAN SEE) is "spiritually" (that men can NOT SEE)....but CAN SEE the effects of His works.

He IS the WORD of God, and came forth OUT of Gods MOUTH, while like our own words, come forth out of our mouths, YET remain IN us.

The MYSTERY IS...our words come forth out of our mouth, as speech. Gods Word came forth out of His mouth, in a formed body of an earthly man....that God espressly prepared...for when He would come into this world...(earth).

Point being, Gods WORD, IS God, be His WORD, appear in the likeness as a DOVE, a BURNING BUSH, a DONKEY, and EARTHLY MAN...
God IS Eternal, as IS Gods WORD Eternal.

WHAT IS ALSO Eternal, IS GODS Creations.
What is the mystery...IS:
Gods....MAKING POWER.
Meaning...ALL of Gods "creations" have an Original MAKING....form, look, appearance, ability, etc.
However, by, of, through, Gods POWER...is an Original MADE THING, able TO BE "re-MADE", to have a different appearance, form, look, ability, etc.

Gods Re-MAKING, of a created thing; "FIRST" requires...
A DESTRUCTION...A spiritual Destruction, IS NOT, making a created thing, "uncreated"...
But rather, Destroying an Appearance of the 'created' thing.

One scripture...Destroy the earth?
One scripture...Earth is never ending?
It's both.
What we see now...will be changed "re-made", for us to SEE Earth, in the fashion God Himself, wants us TO SEE the Earth.

One scripture...Destroy a mans body?
One scripture...A mans body shall live forever?
It's both.
One body shall be MADE to resemble the look of ASH, and buried beneath the Earth, forgotten of living men, and where no living man can enter.
One body shall be MADE to resemble the look of An earthly MAN, without the visible effects, we now see men...stooped over unable to stand erect, scars, sores, from diseases, sad, worried faces, missing limbs, blind, etc.

Everything pertaining to an earthly man;
hangs on "LIFE"...IN the man....or NOT.

Gods WORD prevails, Forever, without end...
Whether or NOT...any particular man prevails Forever WITH LIFE IN him...or NOT.

Many will NOT, enter into the Lords millennial Kingdom on Earth...(1,000 years of Saved Glorified men occupying His Kingdom...WHILE a remnant of mortal men, continue to exist outside of His Kingdom)....and thereafter, when NO mortals exist on earth....the Lords Kingdom, expands to the Entire Earth, and only Glorified men WITH LIFE IN them occupy the Earth....all other men, without life in them...changed to ash. They have no ears to hear...so no, it does not matter, if every glorified man shouted Gods Word, or God Himself is Speaking His Word....men without Life IN THEM...can hear nothing.

Glory to God,
Taken

Okay Taken. thank you for sharing your thoughts

 

[Taken]

Okay Taken. thank you for sharing your thoughts

MG- anything I say, if you require Scriptural reference, and ask, I will quote the Scripture.

 

[MatthewG]

No need friend you express your heart in your writing with your understanding, thank you for sharing it with me.

 

[GEN2REV]

There is a question involved in the contemplation of the scripture that surrounds the concept of the Great Tribulation spoken of in Matthew 24. A key point that could open the doors of perception to many by opening their eyes to the possibilities they may previously have dismissed.

What is the holy place spoken of in Matthew 24:15?

I think this term is taken for granted to be some established location, church, or temple, somewhere on the earth. Let's think about that.

Where do you believe the holy place is? One of the first ideas that may come to mind for many might be the Vatican church in Rome. Yet, without going into an overly lengthy elaboration, I will propose that the Vatican is absolutely not the holy place spoken of in this passage. There is plenty of information available everywhere to support that assertion, please search it out if needed.

So where on earth could God be referring to the holy place during the last days? Let's consider some scripture to get an idea.

" ... know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? ... therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's."
1 Corinthians 6:19-20
" ... ye are the body of Christ ... "
1 Corinthians 12:27
" ... ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."
Ephesians 2:22

The body of the believer is the place of the Holy Spirit upon the earth. There is no church, or temple, anywhere upon the earth that is in alignment enough with God's Word to be considered by Him to be THE Holy Place.

The only holy place left in all the world is within the believer. WE are His holy place; WE are His temple.

Having established that, we must look at the rest of Matthew 24:15.

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, ... stand in the holy place, ..."

Another way to phrase this is an abomination that makes desolate.

Abomination Definition
As on Dictionary.com, listed below are the definitions of abomination.

1. Anything abominable; anything greatly disliked or abhorred.

2. Intense aversion or loathing; detestation

3. A vile, shameful, or detestable action, condition, habit, etc.
What Is an Abomination? Definition, Meaning, and Bible Verses

des·o·late
adjective
/ˈdesələt/

1. (of a place) deserted of people and in a state of bleak and dismal emptiness.
2. "a desolate moor"
   verb

/ˈdesəˌlāt/

1. make (a place) bleakly and depressingly empty or bare.
   "the droughts that desolated the dry plains"

This verse is found in Matthew 24:15 and also in Mark 13:14. It is noted that Matthew uses the masculine form in referring to the abomination, but Mark uses a neutral form. Therefore this is not necessarily speaking of a person.

What can be placed into the bodies of believers that is foul, unholy and detestable to God? I believe that could very likely be the contents of The Jab. Many independent labs have discovered awful things within these mixtures and the medical professionals who dare to consider this information have stated their concern that it could ultimately devastate the human body in many ways. Making the body desolate of immune capabilities as well as healthy brain function. And for those who don't survive this at all, we could see a desolation of the human population.

There are also those who believe the contents of these mixtures devastate a part of the brain that functions to support faith and spiritual concepts.

If that is the case, the world could become desolate of believers. And that would be a concern enough to God to include this event in His sacred Word for us to be warned and to comprehend.

The final part of Matthew 24:15 reads, "( whoso readeth, let him understand: )"

 

[GEN2REV]

If my assertion about Matthew 24:15 is true, then verse 19 there makes much more sense as well.

" ... woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!"

The chemicals and ingredients being discovered in these mixtures are small enough to pass from mother to child via the placenta OR the umbilical cord. And they can also be distributed via breastfeeding.

Verse 21 reads:

"For then shall there be Great Tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

 

[Curtis]

Your paradi

It all depends on how one reads it. If one reads with a paradigm of 'getting even' .... 'revenge'...as per the natural human inclination then one will superimpose that inclination onto God without blinking but if one reads it as judging in righteousness one comes up with a paradigm consistent with Jesus the same yesterday, today and forever. The only way we can know how Jesus was yesterday and forever is to look at what he is like today ie, in his life on Earth. He tells us he came to save the lost not destroy them.....do you think he changed his mind? Ohhh, or do you mean he is beholden to your eschatology?

He gave Judas every opportunity to see but Judas chose what he chose and we all know what that choice was. Did Jesus kill him?....I think he killed himself.
Did Noah close the door to keep people out? He closed it because the rain was coming. By their own choice in the face of being warned what would occur for long years the majority figured they'd have a better chance swimming. We know how that ended also.

God told Israel the inhabitants of the land they were about to possess would vacate because of hornets but no, they wouldn't have it, they wanted to fight....blood and guts. God gave them a concession and capitulated to their demands....just like he did with the matter of divorce.....'because of the hardness of their hearts'. God wanted to lead them but no, they wanted a King like the other nations so God capitulated even warning them of the results of their choice......and they suffered unbelievably for it.

Suffering and death are the domain of the Devil and he uses deception to make Earths inhabitants believe it is God's.....even God's own people.
He paints God with his own character....and it is believed by most.....a God who requires appeasing by blood. Earths history is testimony to that.

using Jesus first advent to deny his wrath against sin, does not account for the fact that He came as the sacrificial lamb the first time, but returns as the lion of Judah, with a sword, wrath and judgment against evil doers, and with flaming fire.

Jesus did show us wrath against sin once while on earth as a lamb, when He took a whip into the temple. Knocked all their tables over, and drove out the moneychangers.

You’re sounding like a universalist.

God has actual angry wrath against sin. Scripture says we are saved from Gods wrath by Jesus being our savior.

Shalom

 

[quietthinker]

Your paradi


using Jesus first advent to deny his wrath against sin, does not account for the fact that He came as the sacrificial lamb the first time, but returns as the lion of Judah, with a sword, wrath and judgment against evil doers, and with flaming fire.

Jesus did show us wrath against sin once while on earth as a lamb, when He took a whip into the temple. Knocked all their tables over, and drove out the moneychangers.

You’re sounding like a universalist.

God has actual angry wrath against sin. Scripture says we are saved from Gods wrath by Jesus being our savior.

Shalom

The whip was for the cattle. How else would one move livestock languishing in the Palestinian sun except with the crack of a whip. He turned (not knocked) over the tables of the money changers and this action alarmed the blazers out of the money changers....of course they bolted. I can also see them scrambling for the coins bouncing off the tiling.

Let me add, you have framed this event as you do other scriptures in a light to underpin your view of violence.....however, authority does not require violence....only weakness does. If it's possible read the account without violent assumptions and you will find a different picture emerges....and if you are tempted to think that I am saying Jesus was a wet noodle you would be in error there as well.

God has actual angry wrath against sin. Scripture says we are saved from Gods wrath by Jesus being our savior.

Your words above are a typical view of God. You frame God as if he were the harsh one and Jesus the soft one....not understanding that Jesus was the revealing of God. You also confuse sin and sinners in the same statement.....you are caught in your subjectivity of making God in your image.....think about it!