What is being pointed to in the following scfriptures?
- Thread starter Jay Ross
- Start date
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By this you are referring to using study tools to look at Greek and Hebrew words, including their root words, and how they are used in conjunctions, and other syntactical forms?
Do you use other non-English translations? I know @amadeus , for instance, reads in the English and German Bibles, maybe another too, I forget.
Much love!
No, in all probability they are also tarred with the same brush.
PS: - my ability to read other languages is very limited.
Where would be the first place I should look in the Bible to see how this is the second death and not physical death?
Much love!
Genesis 2:17 is the first place where I know that the Second death is mentioned in the Scriptures, but, sadly, few people can see the connection of this verse with the Finial Judgement of Revelation 20:11-15 and Daniel 12:1-3, over 7,000 or so years into the future from that time.
The other step is to take your blinkers off so that you are able to see what God's truth is in the Bible.
@Jay Ross,
@marks
Hi there,
Surely if the second death were intended in any of those verses, quoted by Jay, it would have said so. For God says what He means and means what He says.
'But we see Jesus,
Who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death,
crowned with glory and honour;
that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man.' ...
'Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood,
He also Himself likewise took part of the same;
that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.'
(Heb 2:9, 14-15)
These verses from Hebrews show that the Lord was experiencing what all mankind is subject too, and that has to be the death common to all men, and not the second death, which will be the experience only of those who have been judged and sentenced to have part in it.
The second death is final, and no one comes back from it. There is no hope of resurrection from that.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
* References to the 2nd death:-
Revelation 2:11; Revelation 20:6; Revelation 20:14; Revelation 21:8
@marks
Hi there,
Surely if the second death were intended in any of those verses, quoted by Jay, it would have said so. For God says what He means and means what He says.
'But we see Jesus,
Who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death,
crowned with glory and honour;
that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man.' ...
'Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood,
He also Himself likewise took part of the same;
that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.'
(Heb 2:9, 14-15)
These verses from Hebrews show that the Lord was experiencing what all mankind is subject too, and that has to be the death common to all men, and not the second death, which will be the experience only of those who have been judged and sentenced to have part in it.
The second death is final, and no one comes back from it. There is no hope of resurrection from that.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
* References to the 2nd death:-
Revelation 2:11; Revelation 20:6; Revelation 20:14; Revelation 21:8
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The second Death is found, in my humble opinion, next in Genesis 12:10-20 in the story of Abraham going down to Egypt, when the Pharaoh saw that the Lord God had come against him after taking Sarah, Abraham's wife into his household. It is an impression that I perceive from the story being told of what happened when Abraham went down to Egypt shortly after arriving in the Land of Canaan.
The second time the Second Death can be found in the scripture is in Genesis 20, and is directly referenced in verse 7.
Ezekiel also contains references to the Second Death as well when one allows their eye to see the second death mentioned in the text.
References to the consequences of sinning and the subsequent consequences of dying the second death can be found right through the scriptures.
It is a very good study but it requires much searching the scriptures to sus out the references to the second death.
Take your time in with your diligence in searching for all of the scriptures where the second death is referenced in the text.
Shalom
Chris, I agree with you that once a person dies a physical death, the consequences of the second death of that person cannot be stopped. However, up and until the time that a person breathes their last breath, if the person repents of their iniquities, then the Lord will allow that person to live, but if the person will not repent of their iniquities, then they shall surely die the second death. Ezekiel 18? from memory.
This truth has been hidden in the English translations that we use to gain our insight into God and the relationship that he requires of us.
Shalom
There is the spiritual nature of the kingdom to consider here.
"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God comes not with observation:
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." (Luke 17:20-21)
If the kingdom of God does not come with observation then Jesus is referring to something both spiritual and hidden. We are living in a time where there is access into the kingdom realm, but few are trying to get in. Some of us will not taste death until we have entered in. But in our time that is few indeed.
I'll start with those. If you have one or two places in Ezekiel in mind, I'd be interested in those references.
Much love!
I was getting interested in exploring this with you up to this post. Can we leave this stuff behind us? Or will I have to deal with comments like this if I follow through this study with you?
Much love!
I agree, and this is how I've seen it, just the same, I know words are affected by context, and suddenly I'm interested in looking more closely at this.
Much love!
'But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,
thou shalt not eat of it:
for in the day that thou eatest thereof
thou shalt surely die.'
(Gen 2:17)
'And I saw a great white throne,
and Him that sat on it,
from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away;
and there was found no place for them.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God;
and the books were opened:
and another book was opened, which is the book of life:
and the dead were judged
out of those things which were written in the books,
according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it;
and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them:
and they were judged every man according to their works.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life
was cast into the lake of fire.'
(Rev 20:11-15)
'And at that time shall Michael stand up,
the great prince which standeth for the children of Thy people:
and there shall be a time of trouble,
such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time:
and at that time thy people shall be delivered,
every one that shall be found written in the book.'
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
some to everlasting life,
and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament;
and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.'
(Dan 12:1-3)
Hello @Jay Ross,
In Genesis 2:7, Adam and Eve had not experienced death, so how could the death they were being warned about in this verse be a 'second' death for them?
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
The scriptures really open up to you Ziggy. My study habits are, well...not so good...graduated HS fine enough but, never really learned HOW to study. I enjoy your insight sister.
Matthew 16:28: –– Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."
Mark 9:1: –– And He said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power.”
Luke 9:27: –– But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God.
Matthew 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
John 3:3-7 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Mark 9:1: –– And He said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power.” Luke 21:26-28 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. [27] And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. [28] And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draws near.
Marks, I took this request from you as a general request that was applicable of any other person who was reading this thread.
I then mentioned Genesis 2:17 as the first reference to the second death.
I then made this general statement: -
which is applicable to all who read the Bible, but you have responded with this: -
Marks, if you respond to a statement, which is applicable to all of us, then I can only assume that you will be looking at what I provide of my understanding through your viewing lens, and when what you believe is challenged by what the scriptures tell us, you will stop your search for the truth and hold tightly to the conclusions that you have come to.
I have had to remove the lens through which I was looking at the bible scriptures so that the Holy Spirit could reveal to me what I was missing from what I was reading.
Paul states it best when he tells us to Renew our minds in the things of God and then to apply that renewing to our lives so that we become what God has always intended mankind to become.
The written previous "scholarship" that we devoured in the hope of gaining "enlightenment," is part of the blinkers that we all have put on. Unless we are prepared to remove these blinkers then the Holy Spirit has little chance of penetrating our reasoning so that correction in our understanding can be achieved. Often our blinkers are created out of the claims that have been from the silence of the scriptures.
Now I have given you the pointers of where to start, in your study about the references to the second death. It is best that you find the answers for yourself, because answers that we have not worked for are not worth very much to ourselves and are often discarded readily.
Shalom
I have to agree with you that a dishonest mind is hardly a place within which to conduct serious study.
Thank you for your input!
Much love!
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