What is being pointed to in the following scfriptures?

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marks

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"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3

So then we continue to seek...in order to find... and it shall be opened unto us...

Moving on from darkly on toward face to face!
Onward and upward my friend!

Amen!

This is what makes you my brother, we both seek after Him.

Much love!
 
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post

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This is cool:
Exo 24:16 And the glory of the LORD abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud.

It was the 7th day that Jesus took Peter, James, and John to the top of a High mountain where they heard God and saw Moses and Elias.

I have to get my picks and shovel..
It's time to go diggin..
Hugs

Aye

Moses and Elijah are at the transfiguration because Moses and Elijah were witnesses to Who is inside the pillar of cloud and fire, the shekinah glory that filled the temple, the whirlwind out of which the LORD spoke to Job. Moses and Elijah have been inside that cloud, and they know that it is Jesus Christ which is The Angel of the LORD, and are able to testify that He is God.

=]
 
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Jay Ross

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All three passages relate to the transfiguration. So Peter, James, and John had the privilege of seeing Christ as He would be in His eternal Kingdom (glorious and glorified) before they tasted death. This was merely a preview.

Really, Is that your simple literal reading of the scriptures to come to the wrong understanding. Let us put the respective gospel verses into the context in which they are found.

Matthew 16:13-28: - Peter Confesses Jesus as the Christ
(Mark 8:27-30; Luke 9:18-20)


13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?"

14 So they said, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."

15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"

16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

20 Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.

Jesus Predicts His Death and Resurrection
(Mark 8:31-33; Luke 9:21,22)


21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.

22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!"

23 But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men."

Take Up the Cross and Follow Him
(Mark 8:34-38; Luke 9:23-26)


24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. 25 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? 27 For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

Jesus Transfigured on the Mount/The reward for not believing in who Jesus was
(Mark 9:1-13; Luke 9:27-36; 2 Peter 1:16-18)

28 Assuredly, I say to you, there are some/many standing here who shall not taste of {the second} death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."​
NKJV

Both the Mark and Luke's gospels follow the same pattern in their account of Jesus' words.

The Account in John says this: -

John 8:48-59: - Before Abraham Was, I AM

48 Then the Jews answered and said to Him, "Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?"

49 Jesus answered, "I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me. 50 And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges. 51 Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see {the second}
death.
"

52 Then the Jews said to Him, "Now we know that You have a demon! Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and You say, 'If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste {the second} death.' 53 Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Who do You make Yourself out to be?"

54 Jesus answered, "If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, 'I do not know Him,' I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."

57 Then the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"

58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
NKJV

And the Account in Hebrews 2 states in context: -

Hebrews 2:5-9: - The Son Made Lower than Angels
(cf. Ps 8)


5 For He has not put the world to come, of which we speak, in subjection to angels. 6 But one testified in a certain place, saying:

"What is man that You are mindful of him,
Or the son of man that You take care of him?​
7 You have made him a little lower than the angels;
You have crowned him with glory and honor,
And set him over the works of Your hands.​
8 You have put all things in subjection under his feet."​
For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of {the second} death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste {the second death} death for everyone.​
NKJV
Perhaps the above context of the referenced verses may make more sense to you now?

Shalom

PS: - Please note that I have added/expanded by the addition of some words and also I have corrected some words where they do not give the right understanding.
 
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Ziggy

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Aye

Moses and Elijah are at the transfiguration because Moses and Elijah were witnesses to Who is inside the pillar of cloud and fire, the shekinah glory that filled the temple, the whirlwind out of which the LORD spoke to Job. Moses and Elijah have been inside that cloud, and they know that it is Jesus Christ which is The Angel of the LORD, and are able to testify that He is God.

=]
That reminds me of the 2 Cherubim on the Ark of the Covenant.
The Law (Moses) and the Testimony (Elijah)

And God is above them on the mercy seat.


The Ark is in heaven.
 
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Mark51

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Matthew 16:28: –– Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

Mark 9:1: –– And He said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power."

Luke 9:27: –– But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God."

John 8:52: –– Then the Jews said to Him, "Now we know that You have a demon! Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and You say, 'If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.'

Hebrews 2:9: –– But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.


What is being said in these scriptures?


I seems to me that seeing "the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom" was fulfilled-through a vision-by three of Jesus' Disciples: Peter, James and John.-Matthew 17:1, 9.

Yes, the fulfillment literally had not taken place; however, they heard the promise made and that-in actuality-is good as a fulfillment.
 
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Davy

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The first three passages above that I quoted was spoken about six to eight days before the journey up the mountain where Christ was transfigured.

Perhaps you may like to reconsider your post.

Which makes it all the more relevant, because it indeed was about the spiritual manifesting of Christ's Kingdom, not the literal Kingdom still yet to come on earth at His return.
 

Jay Ross

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Which makes it all the more relevant, because it indeed was about the spiritual manifesting of Christ's Kingdom, not the literal Kingdom still yet to come on earth at His return.

Does not Daniel state that God's everlasting kingdom will be established during the time of those kings of the fifth segment of the statue in Daniel 2?

Have the "kings" that Daniel referenced in the Statue prophecy been seen yet on the earth?

It seems to me that many people make the Bible say what they want to believe without reference to what God wrote.

Shalom
 

Davy

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Does not Daniel state that God's everlasting kingdom will be established during the time of those kings of the fifth segment of the statue in Daniel 2?

That Daniel 2 verse you're referring to has not happened yet. Have you not read John 18:36 were Jesus said His Kingdom was not of this present world, that if it was His servants would fight so He would not be delivered up to the Jews. Lord Jesus' 1st coming was meek as The Lamb to be slain as the Perfect Sacrifice for us, for one and all time. It was not to establish His 'literal' Kingdom here on earth yet, which is for His 2nd coming in the future.

Dan 2:41-44
41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

That beast kingdom of the feet of iron mixed with clay is the final beast kingdom that's to have 10 kings. It is the same one of Revelation 17 with the ten horns which represent ten kings. That Revelation beast kingdom is for the very end of this present world, in the generation that will see Christ's return.


44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

KJV

What many miss there in Daniel 2 is how when God sets up His Kingdom there, it mentions destroying "all these kingdoms", linking that to the last day, the idea being all... those pagan kingdoms are going to be revived for the very end of this world just prior to Christ's (The Stone) coming to smite them...

Dan 2:34-35
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
KJV

That's what today's "one world government" system is about, a revival of all the different religious systems so that the false-Messiah will come and proclaim himself as God over them all. This is why globalist lawyers are passing international legislation to try and force all peoples to recognize each other's religion as being equal. Fraternities like the Masons already have long since been teaching their members to recognize other religions as being paths to God's salvation.
 

Jay Ross

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That Daniel 2 verse you're referring to has not happened yet. Have you not read John 18:36 were Jesus said His Kingdom was not of this present world, that if it was His servants would fight so He would not be delivered up to the Jews. Lord Jesus' 1st coming was meek as The Lamb to be slain as the Perfect Sacrifice for us, for one and all time. It was not to establish His 'literal' Kingdom here on earth yet, which is for His 2nd coming in the future.

Well, the characteristic of the ten toes is both of iron and clay with each toes being two nations such that there are actually twenty kings that come together to form the fifth segment in the statue prophecy. In 2003 we witnessed the twenty nations entering Iraq, which was the fourth segment is the segment of the statue prophecy and which was established and recognised before God in 1926 by the world as foretold in the seventh bowl judgement. During the Grecian dominion over the Land of Babylon/the Chaldeans, the Grecian eastern portion devastated and desolated the Land of Babylon for a period of two ages before the Roman empire even existed. What I have just stated in this paragraph can be confirmed from scripture.

That beast kingdom of the feet of iron mixed with clay is the final beast kingdom that's to have 10 kings. It is the same one of Revelation 17 with the ten horns which represent ten kings. That Revelation beast kingdom is for the very end of this present world, in the generation that will see Christ's return.

No that is not true.

What many miss there in Daniel 2 is how when God sets up His Kingdom there, it mentions destroying "all these kingdoms", linking that to the last day, the idea being all... those pagan kingdoms are going to be revived for the very end of this world just prior to Christ's (The Stone) coming to smite them...

That is your interpretation of how the end times plays out. God sets up His Everlasting Kingdom in our near future at the end of this age when the kings of the world that have trampled His Sanctuary and His earthly hosts are drawn to assemble at Armageddon to be judged as foretold in the sixth bowl judgement and in Luke 14:31-32, after which all of Israel will be saved. This event is to happen in our near future, not in our distant future over 1,000 years from now after the Bottomless pit is unlocked.

That's what today's "one world government" system is about, a revival of all the different religious systems so that the false-Messiah will come and proclaim himself as God over them all. This is why globalist lawyers are passing international legislation to try and force all peoples to recognize each other's religion as being equal. Fraternities like the Masons already have long since been teaching their members to recognize other religions as being paths to God's salvation.

Your claim in this quote may well be true, but in the Statue prophecy, when the stone/rock comes down out of heaven to form the foundation stone of God's Everlasting Kingdom, the rock becomes the greatest mountain, i.e. religion, in all of the earth such that the great harvest occurs during the first 1,000 years of the last age before Satan, the beasts and the kings of the earth, described as Locusts in the Book of Revelation are released from the Bottomless Pit.

Davy, I am questioning your understanding of the End Times as I am seeing that your timeline and understanding of these prophecies are your private understanding and interpretation of the scriptures.

Shalom
 

Robert Gwin

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Matthew 16:28: –– Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

Mark 9:1: –– And He said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power."

Luke 9:27: –– But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God."

John 8:52: –– Then the Jews said to Him, "Now we know that You have a demon! Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and You say, 'If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.'

Hebrews 2:9: –– But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.


What is being said in these scriptures?

The first three was fulfilled at Jesus' transfiguration

Jn 8:52 is referring to permanent death

Heb 2:9 referred to the sacrifice given for all mankind in redemption of inherited death from Adam.

Hope that helps Jay.
 

Jay Ross

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The first three was fulfilled at Jesus' transfiguration

Jn 8:52 is referring to permanent death

Heb 2:9 referred to the sacrifice given for all mankind in redemption of inherited death from Adam.

Hope that helps Jay.

No, it does not help. You are lost in the same delusion as the Jews were in Jesus' day.

Hope that helps Robert?

Shalom
 

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Jay Ross

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Sorry I could not be of help Jay.

Robert, what makes you think that your understanding and cultic background would help anyone.

I fell sorry for you in that you believe that your "form" of Christianity is a help for people to embrace.

In the passages that I quoted in the OP, Christ was telling us that there will be people who will experience the second death shortly after He returns in all of His Glory, some 3,000 plus years into the future after His first advent. He was not suggesting that there would be some people who would not die physically until He returned in all of His Glory.

The Jewish audience around Jesus and even His disciples thought that Jesus was speaking about those person's physical death.

Martha's interaction with Jesus when he arrived in Bethany after Lazarus had died illustrates this point beautifully: -

John 11:20-26: - 20 Now Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met Him, but Mary was sitting in the house. 21 Now Martha said to Jesus, "Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You."​

23 Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again."

24 Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, i.e. physically, he shall live, i.e. eternally. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die, i.e. the second death. Do you believe this?"​
NKJV

Shalom
 

Robert Gwin

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Robert, what makes you think that your understanding and cultic background would help anyone.

I fell sorry for you in that you believe that your "form" of Christianity is a help for people to embrace.

In the passages that I quoted in the OP, Christ was telling us that there will be people who will experience the second death shortly after He returns in all of His Glory, some 3,000 plus years into the future after His first advent. He was not suggesting that there would be some people who would not die physically until He returned in all of His Glory.

The Jewish audience around Jesus and even His disciples thought that Jesus was speaking about those person's physical death.

Martha's interaction with Jesus when he arrived in Bethany after Lazarus had died illustrates this point beautifully: -

John 11:20-26: - 20 Now Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met Him, but Mary was sitting in the house. 21 Now Martha said to Jesus, "Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You."​
23 Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again."

24 Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, i.e. physically, he shall live, i.e. eternally. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die, i.e. the second death. Do you believe this?"​
NKJV

Shalom

As one of Christ's disciples we simply plant seeds of truth, nothing new, simply things Jesus taught. We are saddened greatly when those seeds fall on poor soil, and do not grow, or rapidly grow and wither. Like Jehovah we desire all to attain to repentance and gain life 2 Pet 3:9

There is only one faith sir, and you have to worship with spirit and truth. I would love to see Jehovah accepting all faiths, but certainly cannot confirm that scripturally, can you?
 

charity

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Matthew 16:28: –– Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

Mark 9:1: –– And He said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power."

Luke 9:27: –– But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God."

John 8:52: –– Then the Jews said to Him, "Now we know that You have a demon! Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and You say, 'If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.'

Hebrews 2:9: –– But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.


What is being said in these scriptures?
Hello @Jay Ross,

Matthew 16:28-17:1-13, Mark 9:1-9: and Luke 9:27-36:- As you have said subsequently, these three passages show both the Lord's prophecy and fulfillment. Yet also, had Israel received the Lord's message and acknowledged Him as their Messiah during the forty year period following the Lord's death, and ascension to God's right hand, then Christ would have returned: and many who heard His words on the occasion that these verses record, would not have seen death.

* The events prophesied to occur during the end time would have been set in motion by the repentance of Israel (Acts 3:19-21): the 1 Thessalonian 4:13-18 event would have taken place: and those who were 'alive and remain' would have been raised without seeing death to meet the Lord in the air as He returned. That had the potential of taking place, had Israel repented . The early recorded events of the Acts of the Apostles would have been followed by the events of the book of Revelation, and our history changed.

'Verily, verily, I say unto you,
"If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death."

Then the Jews said to Him,
"Now we know that You have a demon!
Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and You say,
'If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.'"

(John 8:51-52)

'But we see Jesus,
Who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death,
crowned with glory and honour;
that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man.'

(Heb 2:9)

'Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood,
He also Himself likewise took part of the same;
that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.'

(Heb 2:14-15)

'Jesus said unto her, (Martha)
I am the resurrection, and the life:
he that believeth in Me,
though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die.
Believest thou this?

(John 11:25-26)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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marks

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* The events prophesied to occur during the end time would have been set in motion by the repentance of Israel (Acts 3:19-21): the 1 Thessalonian 4:13-18 event would have taken place: and those who were 'alive and remain' would have been raised without seeing death to meet the Lord in the air as He returned. That had the potential of taking place, had Israel repented . The early recorded events of the Acts of the Apostles would have been followed by the events of the book of Revelation, and our history changed.
Hi Chris,

My thought is that had Israel repented, Paul would not have been an apostle to the gentiles, as the gentiles would come to the Light through Israel. And so Paul would not have prophesied a rapture that was not going to happen for a gentile church that was not going to exist.

I wonder what our Bible would look like had that been the case.

Your thoughts?

Much love!
 
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Jay Ross

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Matthew 16:28-17:1-13, Mark 9:1-9: and Luke 9:27-36:- As you have said subsequently, these three passages show both the Lord's prophecy and fulfillment. Yet also, had Israel received the Lord's message and acknowledged Him as their Messiah during the forty year period following the Lord's death, and ascension to God's right hand, then Christ would have returned: and many who heard His words on the occasion that these verses record, would not have seen death.

Charity,

If we understand God's prophetic words, then we would also know from the Old Testament that God had said that Israel would walk contrary to Him for a period of two ages because of their continual idolatrous worship during the first two ages of their existence from the time of Isaac's birth, which was Abraham's confirmation of what God would do with respect to the Abrahamic Covenant, that in the distant future, Abraham and all of the Saints would receive as their inheritance, the whole earth.

What you have written in the paragraph that I have quoted, is fanciful twaddle, which is not supported in the scriptures. Hosea 6:2 is one such example: -


Hosea 6:1-3: -
6:1 Come, and let us return to the Lord;
For He has torn, but He will heal us;
He has stricken, but He will bind us up.​
2 After two days He will revive us;
On the third day He will raise us up,
That we may live in His sight.​
3 Let us know,
Let us pursue the knowledge of the Lord.
His going forth is established as the morning;
He will come to us like the rain,
Like the latter and former rain to the earth.​
NKJV

Where the first two days and the third day are "days" within God's time frame in heaven and have the same duration as an "Age" within man's timeframe of reference.

Now if verse 2 above is true, then there was never any indication that God would have stopped the visitation of the fathers' iniquities upon their children and the children's children, because He also knew that even given 490 years in which to repent of their continual idolatrous worship up and until the time of Christ's birth, which meant that this prophecy could not be stopped and that two ages of the visitation of their iniquities would have to be completed before God would begin the healing process with Israel as He once again gathers Israel to Himself.

From the Beginning of the time of Adam, the second death was always the future punishment for sin and that unless man repented of their sin(s) they would remain a candidate for the Lake of fire at the end of the age of the seven ages allocated for mankind in God's plan.

Oh well, we are all capable of writing twaddle, even I, however we must be prepared to repent of writing that twaddle, otherwise, we too will see and experience the second death when Christ returns, with all of the heavenly hosts, in Glory.

Shalom