Eternal Security

[marks]

You're grasping for an argument where one doesn't exist.

I'm holding to the plain meaning of a plainly stated passage of Scripture. But it does seem to contradict your position.

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

Yes. Hebrews 6.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

This scripture you’ve quoted in no way implies that the hearers have been made partakers, what Paul is telling these Jewish men is that if they return to Judaism then they had never received the Holy Ghost to begin with.

 

[Waiting on him]

You can leave of your own accord.
What you can't be is forcibly seized against your will and robbed from God's hand.

You maintain that, the flesh of man can remove one truly conformed from Gods hand, I say scripture totally refutes this sophistry.

 

[Waiting on him]

I’m not certain why I’m even participating in this discussion it’s fleshy, devilish and earthy, which flies in the face of Scripture guoted in the OP. Those risen with Christ are dead and no longe have the flesh in focus. It’s seems though a few on thi thread seem to glory in their flesh.

 

[marks]

This scripture you’ve quoted in no way implies that the hearers have been made partakers, what Paul is telling these Jewish men is that if they return to Judaism then they had never received the Holy Ghost to begin with.

All of these can easily be applied to those who heard Jesus teach, received of His miracles, drank the wine He created, experienced the "powers of the age to come".

What would that be, the "powers of the age to come", if not that Jesus were working in the Kingdom Age power? How would that relate to the modern day? The gifts of the Spirit? Wouldn't those be for this age?

The passage does not say reborn, recreated, redeemed, reconciled, saved, none of these, or their synonyms.

And in fact, it goes on to say,

Hebrews 6:4-9 KJV
4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7) For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8) But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9) But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

There is a good soil, which is dressed and blessed, and brings forth fruit. There is a soil which bears thorns and briers. I'm persuaded of better things for you, things that accompany salvation, that good soil.

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

All of these can easily be applied to those who heard Jesus teach, received of His miracles, drank the wine He created, experienced the "powers of the age to come".

What would that be, the "powers of the age to come", if not that Jesus were working in the Kingdom Age power? How would that relate to the modern day? The gifts of the Spirit? Wouldn't those be for this age?

The passage does not say reborn, recreated, redeemed, reconciled, saved, none of these, of their synonyms.

And in fact, it goes on to say,

Hebrews 6:4-9 KJV
4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7) For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8) But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9) But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

There is a good soil, which is dressed and blessed, and brings forth fruit. There is a soil which bears thorns and briers. I'm persuaded of better things for you, things that accompany salvation, that good soil.

Much love!


Much love!

Well, clearly if is the big question. My question would be whom chooses to cultivate that earth?

 

[marks]

You can leave of your own accord.

What makes you think this? Have you done it?

John wrote that those who leave never were a part, they only looked like it. Why should we presume something different?

And in fact, Paul wrote that those who have died with Christ "shall" appear with Him in glory, so, I'm thinking that's what's going to actually happen.

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

What would that be, the "powers of the age to come", if not that Jesus were working in the Kingdom Age power? How would that relate to the modern day? The gifts of the Spirit? Wouldn't those be for this age?

I believe we are in that age, the age of grace.

 

[Waiting on him]

What makes you think this? Have you done it?

John wrote that those who leave never were a part, they only looked like it. Why should we presume something different?

And in fact, Paul wrote that those who have died with Christ "shall" appear with Him in glory, so, I'm thinking that's what's going to actually happen.

Much love!

The debate on this thread is the power of Christ vs the power of the flesh. I’m going to always go with Christ. I personally don’t think that you’ll convince these three, ever, that they don’t have the power to believe or maintain that belief.

 

[marks]

The debate on this thread is the power of Christ vs the power of the flesh. I’m going to always go with Christ. I personally don’t think that you’ll convince these three, ever, that they don’t have the power to believe or maintain that belief.

Which reminds me of another passage,

Galatians 2:16 KJV
16) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Speaking of prepositions . . .

We have believed IN Christ, to be justified by the faith OF Christ. We are not justified by works of the law, but by the faith OF Christ. Now that's some interesting food for thought!

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

You see @marks, when the Holy Ghost began cultivating this little piece of earth there was nothing but briers and rocks, this is how I can know anything good that came out of this ground is a product solely given of the power of Christ ( the Husbandman ). Gotta give all things to Him. For me to begin believing that ole pile of dung can can interrupt His plan is just ridiculous in my mind.

 

[Waiting on him]

Which reminds me of another passage,

Galatians 2:16 KJV
16) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Speaking of prepositions . . .

We have believed IN Christ, to be justified by the faith OF Christ. We are not justified by works of the law, but by the faith OF Christ. Now that's some interesting food for thought!

Much love!

His Faith being our justification.

 

[Waiting on him]

Personal prepositions are so important.

 

[marks]

You see @marks, when the Holy Ghost began cultivating this little piece of earth there was nothing but briers and rocks, this is how I can know anything good that came out of this ground is a product solely given of the power of Christ ( the Husbandman ). Gotta give all things to Him. For me to begin believing that ole pile of dung can can interrupt His plan is just ridiculous in my mind.

I think the whole point is that we were lost, and now we've been found.

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

I think the whole point is that we were lost, and now we've been found.

Much love!

Yes, some believe they are cultivating their own dirt.

 

[TEXBOW]

Paul tells the Christians at Corinth that if they do certain things they will not inherit the Kingdom. Paul repeatable warns Christians of false prophets. I do not plan on this being an issue or concern in my life as I'm determined to continue in the faith. The ago old debate on OSAS will last until we are all educated on the matter by the master teacher Jesus Christ.

 

[Waiting on him]

Ephesians 1:5-7 KJV
[5] Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, [6] To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. [7] In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

 

[amigo de christo]

Paul tells the Christians at Corinth that if they do certain things they will not inherit the Kingdom. Paul repeatable warns Christians of false prophets. I do not plan on this being an issue or concern in my life as I'm determined to continue in the faith. The ago old debate on OSAS will last until we are all educated on the matter by the master teacher Jesus Christ.

Yes paul often had many reminders . Jesus said it first , Endure to the end . unto the end .
Cling to Christ , having all hope in HIM . For we are made partakers of Christ if we hold our confidence in Christ
firm to the END . March onwards . And do beware of many false prophets my friend .
Peter had this to say . SEEING YE KNOW THESE THINGS , aka THE TRUTH , BEWARE lest ye also be led away with the error and fall
from your own steadfastness . Every warning is for our good , every word is for our good . Now let the glorious LORD be praised .

 

[amigo de christo]

Ephesians 1:5-7 KJV
[5] Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, [6] To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. [7] In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

That very plainly states the plan of GOD . It was pre determined that JESUS was gonna be the savoir .
That is how one is saved . By faith in Christ .

 

[ScottA]

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Can you know? Or is this disengenuous . . . that is . . . false?

Much love!

Hey marks,

We know by Jesus' example, and being his body, we follow.