Who Is The "Root" We're Grafted Into?

[Earburner]

At the time Peter wrote this letter, and also at the time John wrote his letter, Israel was still the only nation of God. Gentile Christianity, as such, did not consist of "nations," as such.

Using the word "nation" as a metaphor doesn't work--God made Israel a literal nation, and the many Christian nations also were literal Christian nations.

It is *not true* that the Kingdom of God had been given only to "born again believers." Israel was a nation, all of whom were committed to the one God in theory, but who had to over time decide if they would remain or compromise. Many did compromise ultimately.

But that doesn't mean that the Kingdom of God had not been given to *all of them,* those who maintained their faith and those who lost their faith. God gave the Kingdom to the whole nation, regardless of the outcome of individuals.

It is the same with the Christian nations. God gives His Kingdom to the nation, as a whole, who profess, collectively to follow that kind of "theocracy." Those, individually, who fall away did receive the Kingdom even though it can also be taken away from them individually, or even nationally.

Those who subscribe, as a people, to a Christian nation come under the name, "Christian nation," and therefore have received the Kingdom of God collectively. Whether individuals remain in the faith or not is decided over time.

So then, in your so called "christian nation" concept, let's hold up the USA to your candle, and see if we can equally apply 1 Peter 2[9] to every single US citizen, whether they believe in Jesus or not, as being
A. "a chosen generation",
B. "a royal priesthood",
C. "an holy nation",
D. "a peculiar people";
E. "that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Q1. Has every US citizen answered God's call, and therefore have come out of their personal darkness, into his marvellous light?
A1. Absolutely not.

Q2. Has every Born Again Christian, no matter from what nation, answered God's call, and therefore have come out of their personal darkness, into his marvellous light?
A2. Yes, absolutely.

Q3. Does Q1 meet all of the descriptive items of A-E?
A3. No, it does not.

Q4. Does Q2 meet all of the descriptive items of A-E?
A4. Yes, it does.
Conclusion: All Born Again Christians* meet ALL the descriptions in items A-E, and therefore are that holy nation* of "new creatures"*.

Under Christ's "Great Commision", only Born Again Christians are in the KoG, and therefore are the true ambassadors* of Christ, sent to all the worldly "nations", to preach the "marvelous light" of the Gospel of God, who is Christ Himself.

*Romans 8:8-9

 

[Randy Kluth]

So then, in your so called "christian nation" concept, let's hold up the USA to your candle, and see if we can equally apply 1 Peter 2[9] to every single US citizen, whether they believe in Jesus or not, as being
A. "a chosen generation",
B. "a royal priesthood",
C. "an holy nation",
D. "a peculiar people";
E. "that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Q1. Has every US citizen answered God's call, and therefore have come out of their personal darkness, into his marvellous light?
A1. Absolutely not.

Q2. Has every Born Again Christian, no matter from what nation, answered God's call, and therefore have come out of their personal darkness, into his marvellous light?
A2. Yes, absolutely.

Q3. Does Q1 meet all of the descriptive items of A-E?
A3. No, it does not.

Q4. Does Q2 meet all of the descriptive items of A-E?
A4. Yes, it does.
Conclusion: All Born Again Christians* meet ALL the descriptions in items A-E, and therefore are that holy nation* of "new creatures"*.

Under Christ's "Great Commision", only Born Again Christians are in the KoG, and therefore are the true ambassadors* of Christ, sent to all the worldly "nations", to preach the "marvelous light" of the Gospel of God, who is Christ Himself.

*Romans 8:8-9

You should read an older book called "The Light and the Glory" by Peter Marshall. https://www.amazon.com/Light-Glory-Peter-Marshall/dp/1470887169

You will realize that God doesn't just call individuals, but also nations. Israel was called, as such, even though from the start they were hopelessly compromised and spiritually conflicted.

So all of your questions are irrelevant. They have to do with those who receive Eternal Salvation, and not with the idea of a nation receiving the Kingdom of God. They are not the same. Being given the Kingdom of God has a technical inference, indicating the idea that God makes a covenant with a nation to bless it or curse it based on its faithfulness to the agreed-upon covenant.

The US, in my view, was such a nation, but from the beginning made a negotiated settlement with Deists. And so, the US, though having a covenant with God, was understood to have made peace with those unwilling to agree to such a covenant. Not surprisingly, the nation went through Civil War, not even being able to agree that generational slavery was wrong!

 

[Earburner]

Interesting.

Including this part?

8) In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
9) And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

And then there is this . . .

Zechariah 14:1-4 KJV
1) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2) For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

As the LORD defends the Holy City Jerusalem.

3) Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4) And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Zechariah 14:20-21 KJV
20) In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21) Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

These shall be fulfulled.

Much love!

Your answer as to which Jerusalem is being spoken of in Zech., is discerned by Jesus, Paul and Peter as being Heavenly Jerusalem.

Hebrews 12[22] But ye [who are Born Again] are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
[23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
[24] And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
See also Galatians 4:22-31.

All who are born again of God's Holy Spirit, are the temples of God's dwelling place. Collectively, WE ourselves ARE the New Jerusalem, the city of the Living God.
Surely, you didn't think that Revelation 21:1-4 is talking about literal buildings and structured houses as that of man.

Its not about how we shall dwell, but rather where God desires to dwell, which is the primary reason for our existence and our eternal salvation in the first place.
For all who are born again, we are the "lively stones" (mansions) of God's assembly of Heavenly Jerusalem, being his spiritual house.
1 Peter 5[5] Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

John 14[2] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. [As lively stones] I go to prepare a place for you [to be fitted into my Father's spiritual house].

And if you are looking for a "battle", ultimately it shall be against heavenly Jerusalem, aka the camp of the saints now on earth, still in their mortal flesh.
One must understand that a camp is a temporary dwelling place.
To better understand that, one can restudy the symbolism of the Jewish observance about the Feast of Tabernacles, which was NOT about the temporary dwelling for the Jews, but rather the temporary place OF GOD's dwelling with them.

All born again Christians KNOW that this world/earth is a "camp", and is not our permanent home, and therefore now, in the moment of our corrupted mortal flesh, we know that "we have this treasure of His eternal presence within our earthen vessels", waiting for the day of our resurrection, to be changed into Jesus' immortality and likeness.
Revelation 19:11-21, Revelation 20:7-9

 

[Cassandra]

They will look upon Him Whom they had pierced, and God will give them a spirit of grace and supplication.

Much love!

Why does this generation get more of a chance than their predecessors? So a Jew that died before Christ comes back is lost, but the ones living aren't. Do you see how horribly unfair that is?



And how do you account for the absence of Dan and Ephraim in Revelation? Their tribes were part of the covenant at Sinai, but they must have done something for the Lord to disinherit them. It's because the covenant was conditional, not absolute. Covenants have 2 sides.
Hosea 4:17 "Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone."
This shows that the covenant was conditional.

Israel did not keep their part of the covenant which is where Matt 11:41-43 comes in.
41 “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time.”

42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

“‘The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone;
the Lord has done this,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’"?

43 “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.

 

[marks]

Your answer as to which Jerusalem is being spoken of in Zech., is discerned by Jesus, Paul and Peter as being Heavenly Jerusalem.

Hebrews 12[22] But ye [who are Born Again] are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
[23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
[24] And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
See also Galatians 4:22-31.

All who are born again of God's Holy Spirit, are the temples of God's dwelling place. Collectively, WE ourselves ARE the New Jerusalem, the city of the Living God.
Surely, you didn't think that Revelation 21:1-4 is talking about literal buildings and structured houses as that of man.

Its not about how we shall dwell, but rather where God desires to dwell, which is the primary reason for our existence and our eternal salvation in the first place.
For all who are born again, we are the "lively stones" (mansions) of God's assembly of Heavenly Jerusalem, being his spiritual house.
1 Peter 5[5] Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

John 14[2] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. [As lively stones] I go to prepare a place for you [to be fitted into my Father's spiritual house].

And if you are looking for a "battle", ultimately it shall be against heavenly Jerusalem, aka the camp of the saints now on earth, still in their mortal flesh.
One must understand that a camp is a temporary dwelling place.
To better understand that, one can restudy the symbolism of the Jewish observance about the Feast of Tabernacles, which was NOT about the temporary dwelling for the Jews, but rather the temporary place OF GOD's dwelling with them.

All born again Christians KNOW that this world/earth is a "camp", and is not our permanent home, and therefore now, in the moment of our corrupted mortal flesh, we know that "we have this treasure of His eternal presence within our earthen vessels", waiting for the day of our resurrection, to be changed into Jesus' immortality and likeness.
Revelation 19:11-21, Revelation 20:7-9

Intesting, but not compelling to me to ignore the context of the passage. You've connected the dots with some other passages, but which of those are concerning defending the city against the aggressor nations at the end of the age when YHWH returns to stand upon the earth?

I'm not "looking for" something, that's one of those mischaracterizations.

That there is an heavenly Jerusalem in no wise negates there being an earthly Jerusalem. And the Bible is very clear about Jerusalem an Isreal in prophecy before and when Jesus returns.

Yes, we are come to an heavenly Jerusalem, and Jesus will return to the Jerusalem on earth, at the conclusion of the time of tribulation, during which the beast attempts to destroy the remaining Jews. YHWH will return to stand on the mount of olives, which will split in two, and the Jews that remain in Jerusalem are instructed to flee from through that valley.

It reminds me of the day when Moses parted the sea, and the Isrealites passed through. The Egyptian army followed, and drowned when the sea closed back in on them. Here, they are to flee through the split mount. The winepress of God's wrath? Blood flows out like a river.

Interestingly, You've mentioned Tabernacles. The feast commemorating the Isrealite's wilderness wanderings, until coming to the promised land. Jesus taking on flesh and living among us. As He is, so are we in this world. "And they blasphemed God, and his tabernacle, and those who tabernacle in heaven." That's an interesting verse!

Zechariah prophesied that the nations would be required to come to Jerusalem to celebrate Tabernacles after Jesus comes, during the kingdom age. Won't that be the city of Jerusalem in Israel?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Why does this generation get more of a chance than their predecessors? So a Jew that died before Christ comes back is lost, but the ones living aren't. Do you see how horribly unfair that is?

Interesting question! I want to think a bit before I answer you.

Much love!

 

[Earburner]

Intesting, but not compelling to me to ignore the context of the passage. You've connected the dots with some other passages, but which of those are concerning defending the city against the aggressor nations at the end of the age when YHWH returns to stand upon the earth?

I'm not "looking for" something, that's one of those mischaracterizations.

That there is an heavenly Jerusalem in no wise negates there being an earthly Jerusalem. And the Bible is very clear about Jerusalem an Isreal in prophecy before and when Jesus returns.

Yes, we are come to an heavenly Jerusalem, and Jesus will return to the Jerusalem on earth, at the conclusion of the time of tribulation, during which the beast attempts to destroy the remaining Jews. YHWH will return to stand on the mount of olives, which will split in two, and the Jews that remain in Jerusalem are instructed to flee from through that valley.

It reminds me of the day when Moses parted the sea, and the Isrealites passed through. The Egyptian army followed, and drowned when the sea closed back in on them. Here, they are to flee through the split mount. The winepress of God's wrath? Blood flows out like a river.

Interestingly, You've mentioned Tabernacles. The feast commemorating the Isrealite's wilderness wanderings, until coming to the promised land. Jesus taking on flesh and living among us. As He is, so are we in this world. "And they blasphemed God, and his tabernacle, and those who tabernacle in heaven." That's an interesting verse!

Zechariah prophesied that the nations would be required to come to Jerusalem to celebrate Tabernacles after Jesus comes, during the kingdom age. Won't that be the city of Jerusalem in Israel?

Much love!

I am not going to spin my wheels much over this, you do understand the spiritual side of what I am talking about. There is so much more to it, but I will trust God that He will reveal it to you "by His Spirit" (Isaiah 55:8-9, Zechariah 4:6), and not that which is fabricated through "churchianity".

Btw, did you know that the literal feet of Jesus did stand most of the time in the Mt of Olives at night?
Luke 21[37] And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives.

 

[marks]

and not that which is fabricated through "churchianity".

Let's not either one of us spend the strength of our years on fabrications.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Btw, did you know that the literal feet of Jesus did stand most of the time in the Mt of Olives at night?

Zechariah 14:1-5 KJV
1) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2) For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3) Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4) And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5) And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

I believe each of these will happen as prophesied. Not symbolizing something, I see no language to indicate that. Rather, YHWH will stand on the mount of olives, and that mount will split in two . . . and all the rest.

Much love!

 

[Cassandra]

It also says in Zech 14 that He brings His saints with Him.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

We gotta do this first
1Thess 4:16-17 "
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Including this part?

8) In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
9) And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

And then there is this . . .

Zechariah 14:1-4 KJV
1) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2) For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

how do you define “spoil” in “thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee”?
For example Hebrews 10:31-35 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. [32] But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after you were illuminated, you endured a great fight of afflictions; [33] Partly, whilst you were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst you became companions of them that were so used. [34] For you had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that you have in heaven a better and an enduring substance. [35] Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.

Or what of: Proverbs 16:18-20 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. [19] Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud. [20] He that handleth a matter wisely shall find good: and whoso trusteth in the Lord, happy is he.
^Cast not away therefore your confidence?

Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud.
Mark 15:24 And when they had crucified him, they parted his garments, casting lots upon them, what every man should take.

Matthew 27:35-37 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots:

that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.
That it might Be fulfilled…they parted my garments among them “thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee”? —prophetic? They did part his garments among them…same as said they shall divide the spoil in the midst?

[36] And sitting down they watched him there; [37] And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

 

[marks]

how do you define “spoil” in “thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee”?

They will be dividing up what they stole from you in your own living room.

Spoil is to loot, and the proceeds of looting.

Much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.
That it might Be fulfilled…they parted my garments among them “thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee”? —prophetic? They did part his garments among them…same as said they shall divide the spoil in the midst?

Acts 2:22-24 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: [23] Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, you have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: [24] Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Zechariah 14:1-4 KJV
1) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2) For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Here (for me) there is a question concerning “and the city shall be taken” “and the houses ravished, and the women ravished”

1)what ‘houses’ are ravished? What of: knowing if this earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands…? Which seems to connect to “taking joyfully the spoiling of your goods” knowing there is a more enduring substance?

2) what women ravished? 2 Timothy 3:2-6 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, [3] Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, [4] Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; [5] Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. [6] For of this sort are they which creep into houses(could be if you receive a spirit you did not receive, receive it not into your house?) and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with (by their own) divers lusts,

Just thoughts considering “ravishing women” and “lead captive silly women away” which the text speaks of “half the city will go into captivity” lead away captive?

As the LORD defends the Holy City Jerusalem.

3) Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

put on the whole armour of God?
war not against flesh and blood but spiritual wicked in high places?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Who is the "root" Paul said the Gentiles were being grafted into in Romans 11? The following is just a thread I'm creating without having fully formulated my conclusion yet, though I do believe I know based on the context. But I thought I would posit it as food for thought while mulling it over.

Blessings in Christ to all who respond,
Hidden In Him

Here is the context in Romans:

16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump also; and if the root is holy, so the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? 25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; 27 For this is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins.” 28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. (Romans 11:16-28)

Jesus is the Vine, we are the branches. We were grafted into the Vine that Israel was also growing out of.
Some of their branches were cut off, so that we could be grafted in. Soon a remnant Israel (a portion of the living Jews) will be grafted into the Vine prior to or during the Great Tribulation. He will lift their veils and they will see.

 

[marks]

Here (for me) there is a question concerning “and the city shall be taken” “and the houses ravished, and the women ravished”

The houses "rifled", that is, searched for things to steal. And the women raped.

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Why does this generation get more of a chance than their predecessors? So a Jew that died before Christ comes back is lost, but the ones living aren't. Do you see how horribly unfair that is?

No, no. There are Messianic Jews alive today who have received Jesus as their Messiah, because Jews in all generations have always been given a chance. But concerning the Jews in Israel who are alive during the reign of the Antichrist, their "chance" will essentially be to choose Christ and flee to the wilderness or die. So I don't know if they are to be envied as if the situation will be better for them than those Jews alive today, who have time, and don't have to make such a grave decision that could mean life or death.

It also says in Zech 14 that He brings His saints with Him.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

The word "saints" just means "holy ones." It's not a label for New Testament believers only. In 2 Peter 2:1, Peter declared the following concerning the Old Testament prophets:

19 And so we have the more certain prophetic word, which you do well to heed as to a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the Morning Star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came through the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. (2 Peter 1:19-21)

Jesus is the Vine, we are the branches. We were grafted into the Vine that Israel was also growing out of.
Some of their branches were cut off, so that we could be grafted in. Soon a remnant Israel (a portion of the living Jews) will be grafted into the Vine prior to or during the Great Tribulation. He will lift their veils and they will see.

Agreed. :cool:

 

[Earburner]

Zechariah 14:1-5 KJV
1) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2) For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3) Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4) And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5) And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

I believe each of these will happen as prophesied. Not symbolizing something, I see no language to indicate that. Rather, YHWH will stand on the mount of olives, and that mount will split in two . . . and all the rest.

Much love!

Nope! Already been fulfilled!
Review the words in Isaiah 55:8-9 some more. I will get back to you about it.

 

[marks]

Nope! Already been fulfilled!

Nope. Hasn't happened yet.

Please review 2 Peter 1:19-21. This can help to set the tone.

But I'm guess that when it says, the mountain will split open creating a valley, maybe you think it means something else? I don't. I think it means what it says. But then again, His ways are above our ways, so maybe not everyone understands this.

Much love!

 

[Earburner]

Zechariah 14:1-5 KJV
1) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2) For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3) Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4) And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5) And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

I believe each of these will happen as prophesied. Not symbolizing something, I see no language to indicate that. Rather, YHWH will stand on the mount of olives, and that mount will split in two . . . and all the rest.

Much love!

The trouble with the OT prophets is, in words, they could never distinguish which "coming" of the Day of the Lord, that He was "coming" in.
1. In Jesus' first appearance, the Jews did not know the "time" of their visitation by the Lord, being that of His "coming" to them first.
Luke 19:41-44
2. Then there was the day of Pentecost, whereby through the Holy Spirit, both God the Father and God the Son "come" to us, to dwell within us.
John 14:23
3. And let"s not forget about the two simultaneous events in the day of Christ's Glorious physical "coming" from Heaven, in flaming fire:
(a) the redemption of His Saints
(b) and the destruction of all the unsaved.
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.
See also Luke 17:29

Zechariah's prophecies appear to speak as if all is to take place in one literal day. But then again, to the Lord one day is as a thousand years...
2 Peter 3:8.

Therefore, if we are to discern God's thoughts and ways, which are not ours, we should definitely heed the instruction that Paul gave to us. We should be "comparing spiritual things with spiritual"
(1 Corinthians 2:9-13),
as both Isaiah 55:8-9 and Zechariah 4:6 reveal.